Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[alberts8]

Why has the TURN TIMES now at a minimum of 10 times longer now than it used to be in Ancient Era, then into Classical????

In ancient era, you should be able to count, 1 one-thousand, 2 one-thousand, 3 one-thousand, 4 one-thousand, up to 5 and then it should be the next turn, no matter what. I am counting as much as 20-30 one-thousand

Was not like that before???

And this is withOUT Size matters and what ever else TB added, just think if i had those ALSO as options ON????

A fix for that is on it's way to the svn.

 

[alberts8]

Talking about working together, how about all projects going on STOP(with adding new stuff, except maybe the Nomad stuff), and lets work on the AI, more balancing, and error solutions??

+1 here

 

[strategyonly]

A fix for that is on it's way to the svn.

Glad i just saw this then, because i was going to put a copy of my game here, and my turn times are OVER 40 seconds, and i only have 4 cities??


EDIT: OK after the latest SVN, it is now 25ish sec p/turn, alot better, thx. but maybe in a month or so, even lower(should be less than 15ish), but again thx.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@DH

5 to 10 seconds in medieval on gem or sem map?

Huge map 20 civs each with more than 10 cities. A couple with 20 cities. GEM is to big for my rig and I have not looked at SEM.

 

[Harrier]

In an attempt to save memory, I edited out the data in the world builder file for 20 unused civ slots. Unfortunately the game added them back in. So they must be coded in the dll to use all slots. Each slot must take up some memory space even if a civ is not allocated to it.

So, are you able to change that value in the dll?

If so you could produce a second version of the dll with fewer civ slots for those players that do not want 50 civs in the game. With say 30 civs.

 

[JosEPh_II]

In an attempt to save memory, I edited out the data in the world builder file for 20 unused civ slots. Unfortunately the game added them back in. So they must be coded in the dll to use all slots. Each slot must take up some memory space even if a civ is not allocated to it.

So, are you able to change that value in the dll?

If so you could produce a second version of the dll with fewer civ slots for those players that do not want 50 civs in the game. With say 30 civs.

+1

A long time ago it was 28 civs when AND 1.76beta2 was the base. But posters kept pushing for the 50 civ dll that was put out around that time or a bit prior( So the MegaCiv pack that zappara put out for RoM could be used). Also back then Giant was the biggest map size. And Game lengths in # of Turns was less than 2000.

My how things have changed, but maybe they are starting to come back around?

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

I haven't looked into how these settings go perhaps out of an assumption that I'd be the wrong guy to do it (though I've learned a lot recently about this sort of thing so maybe not so wrong at this point.) What would be really nice is if we could establish an easily adjusted file value somewhere but I believe it's a must that it be hardcoded.

Now, that said, some recent discussion has opened up a possibility of making it quite easy to generate an alternative value though it would mean maintaining a parallel dll and debug dll. This would be tough from an upload and download perspective to keep those running with each build on the SVN.

However, I can see it being something we might want to package as a modmod whenever an actual release dll is compiled. The downside of this of course is that such dlls will be nearly completely impossible to debug with regularity such as we do with the SVN version.

The question then becomes, how many? 28?

And perhaps we should consider making the LARGER one (50+) the modmod? I like the idea of more civs but not if it's going to crash out the game once it's progressed to a certain extent. That's the WORST time for such crashes right? Right when the game is getting really fun because it's developed over so much time.

 

[Faustmouse]

Who is actually using so many civs? I think 20 can be the default and 50 the modmod...

or, can you just say how to manipulate the dll to have like 20 civs max?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I often have 30+ civs in game. I like it and see no slowing of turn times or memory problems.

edit The 50th is the Barbarians. If animals are being split from barbarians they will be the 49th. If we want to use some of the code from other mods to implement the independent cities similar to Civ V then we will need a slot for each of them.

If it is possible to have a variable in A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines.XML that limits the number of actual civs in game then OK, but that is a different proposition to the idea of changing the coded number in the dll and recompiling. The former keeps all games able to be debuged while the latter would require a new compile for the number of civs being used.

 

[alberts8]

50 players is to much in many ways. At first it sounds great but is there anyone who played with that many players until the end? Most times at some point they loose interest because of turn times or the game reaches the memory limit and they keep saying c2c is to slow and unstable.

I say we cut it down to 40.

 

[alberts8]

I often have 30+ civs in game. I like it and see no slowing of turn times or memory problems.

edit The 50th is the Barbarians. If animals are being split from barbarians they will be the 49th. If we want to use some of the code from other mods to implement the independent cities similar to Civ V then we will need a slot for each of them.

If it is possible to have a variable in A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines.XML that limits the number of actual civs in game then OK, but that is a different proposition to the idea of changing the coded number in the dll and recompiling. The former keeps all games able to be debuged while the latter would require a new compile for the number of civs being used.

If the make that a variable in A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines.XML it will slow things down a bit, how much must be tested a compile time constant is faster.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Pretty sure it has to be hardcoded into the compile DH and Mouse. So it's not something that can be done offhandedly.

20 seems short to me but 40 seems too many. 30 or 35 would be sufficient I believe and shouldn't cause any real problems.

Too many and you get too long a list of them on the screen anyhow and most are completely invalid. It would not only hog memory but vastly increase turn times as there are that many more civs to process their AI determinations. Nice to be able to have so many yes but if we're trying to get things to move faster and be more reliable this would be a good place to start.

 

[Harrier]

Who is actually using so many civs? I think 20 can be the default and 50 the modmod...

or, can you just say how to manipulate the dll to have like 20 civs max?

The new SEM map I am working on at the moment has 29 civs (previous version was 39 - I have removed 10 so far). The current GEM map now has 32 civs (I believe at one point it was 50).

So a value around 30 would be better for these 2 scenario's.

 

[Faustmouse]

Do we actually have 30 civs now that SO put most of them in a modmod? Just wondering.

 

[Thunderbrd]

32 on the GEM? I'd say 35 total then which leaves some room for cutting in for dedicated AI's such as the barbs.

 

[Harrier]

Do we actually have 30 civs now that SO put most of them in a modmod? Just wondering.

Downloading my SEM map includes a new "Custom Civs" folder. This adds back about 10 civs that were removed.

American and Oceanic civs.

GEM will probably have to do the same when they update their map.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Pretty sure it has to be hardcoded into the compile DH and Mouse. So it's not something that can be done offhandedly.

It is that way now but it needn't be. I am not sure how much work would be needed to make sure that the variable is used and exposed.

Do we actually have 30 civs now that SO put most of them in a modmod? Just wondering.

You can have 49 Egyptian civs in the one game if you want to. You will just get confused as to which you are talking to and the borders wont show well.

 

[strategyonly]

Do we actually have 30 civs now that SO put most of them in a modmod? Just wondering.

There is 40+ in the core, besides what is in the Cust Civ area. There is 34+ in the normal BtS core, meaning you have to count Barbs so its actually 35.

Before changing anything around in the dll, i believe there are alot of different dll's already that employ a certain amount of civs.

 

[Yudishtira]

I always play with resource depletion. When a resource depletes (and multiple sources usually deplete at the same time), any culture built depending on the vicinity resource "ceases doing business". This is kind of a shame for the game (honestly, the inconvenience to me personally is slight - and has already happened - so I'm not asking for my own benefit), and is irreversible unless iron is discovered in the same city's vicinity (or is in the city's expanded vicinity with Metro Ad)

Is there any way to make a vicinity resource a prereq at build time but not ongoing? Realistically, especially given that iron is available from elsewhere in my empire, the Byzantine culture is not going to just die as soon as the local mine closes down.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Wow... that's a complex issue in the code there Yudishtira. Without significant investment into researching how to introduce a solution, the only thing I can suggest at the moment is to not play with resource depletion unfortunately. Not the easiest problem to resolve quickly but I'll try at some point.