Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[Toffer90]

I get more great people points with emphasize science or culture... not sure why.

Because it will assign more specialist that add GP points.

 

[irishhombre]

I have found that if you have hidden nationally units, it helps a lot in the later game to clear some of those excessive units.

 

[Thunderbrd]

can we pls limit workers to like 20 per civ, because in the later yrs, u always have workers (like a ton of them) in each civ just doing nothing, and making turn times horrific,

That would probably cause larger problems in the AI, aka, it's a deeper bug than can be solved by a simple solution - I'll bring it up on the discord to the person who needs to consider a fix.

 

[fLaMaster]

The one and only big problem of this mod, is not x64 bit civ 4(

 

[JosEPh_II]

can we pls limit workers to like 20 per civ, because in the later yrs, u always have workers (like a ton of them) in each civ just doing nothing, and making turn times horrific,

Why not just delete the excess workers? Works for me. Plus if you have the Option for Downsizing On you get some Gold back for each unit/worker removed.

 

[Maltazard]

So for the several past game attempts I've made, I've tried to keep the 4 C2C combat options enabled.
I'm still unsure about size matters, I feel it can make the game easier, but I also like the notion quite a bit. I don't so much like that you gain or lose promotions seemingly at random when merging and splitting units, but still.
Now onto the other three, which I feel work mostly in tandem. I've realized I simply can't handle hide and seek and this is mostly playing in pre and ancient era. I use scouts, dogs and watchmen and still somehow I'm completely unable to ever see animals around. Criminal units are an extreme pain to find and identity. Without warning and chase are good in principle, but together with hide and seek, make combat so much more involved, complex, micromanaged, and most importantly they add so many more promotions that it becomes way too unwieldy for me. There are visibility promotions, chasing promotions, combat promotions, terrain promotions, it's just too many. If playing with more XP to level it takes literal ages to make a hardened veteran unit into a somewhat capable combatant.
I'm very sorry because I feel like a lot of thought has gone into these options, but the overall implementation isn't quite fun.

Obviously the easy answer is to just disable them and carry on playing, I know that. I just wanted to share some thoughts/feedback on "the C2C combat options" which I feel are a more distinctive part of the mod.

I also realise that a lot of these isssues are probably going to change once unit review is done and then furthermore when equipment modcomponent is created - but as it is, I'd suggest considering eliminating at least one if not two invisibility classes, and adding a LESS XP TO LEVEL option to compensate for the miriad of extra promotions these modules add. I know it's dangerous as it could easily enable OP units, but then it'd mean that these alternative promotions which are present in game are so less desirable that perhaps they don't need to be there at all. Who ever picks +20% defense in grassland over +25% vs melee?

 

[Thunderbrd]

If playing with more XP to level it takes literal ages to make a hardened veteran unit into a somewhat capable combatant.

Exactly why I feel that it doesn't play into the idea of the rest of the combat mod but does play nicely without it sure.

Who ever picks +20% defense in grassland over +25% vs melee?

+20% on grassland is better than 25% vs melee when one defends against mounted. The idea is to have a variety of defenses for one's stack such that the stack cannot be undone by an evaluation of its unprepared weaknesses - and yet to prepare for all scenarios is nearly impossible because of how many there are. It will, as you say, become more clear post review.

The options all together are not for players who want to streamline play but who want more intense granular detail. So... complaints that it adds too much granular detail are received with mixed feelings - yay mission accomplished and aw, some people don't like that, which is to be expected. Not to say your comments are going unheard or unappreciated. Once more fully established, it may be more possible to find other blends or ways to sort things through.

 

[Maltazard]

It will, as you say, become more clear post review

I feel that, if it ever becomes a thing, an equipment mod that works alongside unit promotions and also unit classes is going to make things a lot more interesting and also easier to mix and match for different synergies. (A infrantry unit armed with long spears and specialized on defensive combat with a scouting attachée: only one of those four things is an XP earned promotion) - A bit like the Alpha Centauri unit builder, I suppose, which everyone thought was incredibly cool. Future references.

That being said, yes, I probably shouldn't pick more XP to level along the combat options to begin with live and learn though - I'm still on my journey to find the perfect settings. Luckily, we had a SVN save break so I'm starting over.

 

[Somebody613]

I feel that, if it ever becomes a thing, an equipment mod that works alongside unit promotions and also unit classes is going to make things a lot more interesting and also easier to mix and match for different synergies. (A infrantry unit armed with long spears and specialized on defensive combat with a scouting attachée: only one of those four things is an XP earned promotion) - A bit like the Alpha Centauri unit builder, I suppose, which everyone thought was incredibly cool. Future references.

That being said, yes, I probably shouldn't pick more XP to level along the combat options to begin with live and learn though - I'm still on my journey to find the perfect settings. Luckily, we had a SVN save break so I'm starting over.

I'm still awaiting the addition of actual EQUIPMENT, lol.
I've played Fall From Heaven (or something of the same source, that series of mods is confusing in relating to each other) - and it has buyable equipment per unit.
In fact, I've always preferred games where you EQUIP (read: "evolve") units, instead of UNLOCKING new ones that are still static.
Not to mention how we finally would be able to mix-and-match a lot more stuff on the same unit - including cultural equipment (some day, one day), lol.
Promotions are already a good thing, and combat types added a whole new breadth to it - but adding actual equipment will be a blast.
Less (much less) "basic units" getting equipped with a wide range of all sorts of "enhancements and equipment" - that is the epitome of how wide-scale Civilization should play out.

 

[JosEPh_II]

1 thing that did not change was the Barbs and their penchant to block the Human Player from expanding! Early game on Blitz, by th time I had clubman the Barbs had plopped 2 cities within 6 to 8 tile from my Capital and only city at that time. I have a current stack with 40 Spiked Club and 12 Thief or Exiles milling around my territory. With many other stacks splitting and rejoining each other. The map around my 2 cities looks like a Poster Board for Barb expansion! I have managed to force my way south to a river/coast tile that is adjacent to Horse Resource. Now to get that tile under my Culture and developed for Horse Riders. Obsidian is all the way across my continent next to the Zulu . They will have Obsidian weapons long before me now. Such is the life of an Emperor!

 

[Thunderbrd]

1 thing that did not change was the Barbs and their penchant to block the Human Player from expanding! Early game on Blitz, by th time I had clubman the Barbs had plopped 2 cities within 6 to 8 tile from my Capital and only city at that time. I have a current stack with 40 Spiked Club and 12 Thief or Exiles milling around my territory. With many other stacks splitting and rejoining each other. The map around my 2 cities looks like a Poster Board for Barb expansion! I have managed to force my way south to a river/coast tile that is adjacent to Horse Resource. Now to get that tile under my Culture and developed for Horse Riders. Obsidian is all the way across my continent next to the Zulu . They will have Obsidian weapons long before me now. Such is the life of an Emperor!

Yeah the thing about barb cities is they don't settle they just pop up so unlike civ cities they can come into play a LOT faster.

 

[JosEPh_II]

why does it seem to me that turn times even with only 250 turns into the game on a small map, seems ALOT more????new SVN?

@turn176 on a Standard C2C World map, Blitz GS, Emperor Diff, 6 AI, my turn time was 1 min 12 secs. This is almost 25 secs longer than my abandoned game that was in the Ren Era on SVN11551(turn time was averaging 50secs). So Yes the EOT's are much longer. I suspect the new Culture Spread is the reason.

1st screenshot old SVN11551 Game. War with 2 AI and Barbs. 2nd when achieving Sed Life with 2 Cities vs 3 known Barb cities in area.

 

[raxo2222]

Upload save and user settings

 

[Somebody613]

I do think it might be slower. I'm playing a Duel map that is half wiped clean (literally, also no Doomstacks), and my turn times are maybe 5 seconds, but they FEEL somehow slow, lol.
I mean, the way I recall the FEELING, under such nearly empty map situation my turn time should be max 1 sec (or FEEL like that), so I'm quite unsure.

 

[raxo2222]

Turn off Realistic Culture Spread for now.

 

[Toffer90]

EDIT: 52 is more than 10 X (times) slower with turn times, really starting to get boring WAITING!!!

I haves some ideas about what causes it.

 

[fLaMaster]

Something with unit cycling i guess. It's take too much time.

 

[Somebody613]

Something with unit cycling i guess. It's take too much time.

Definitely.
I'm playing a Duel Eternity game with 40 civs, and it's takes 5 seconds each turn during early Prehistory (almost no buildings yet and maybe 5 units per civ) - that's clearly a start of a lag.

 

[fLaMaster]

Must say. Playing something about 7 hours without oom on uem map and it`s great) Yes, turns go slower, but i very happy to not get oom every 1.5-2 hours) Thanks)

 

[JosEPh_II]

raxo2222​

: Upload save and user settings

thats exactly what i mean / / / /at this time ingame should not be more than 1-2 seconds, with at least SOME +money / /only 4 cities, small map. .(no changes to anything (default)

@strategyonly,

1.You expanded to fast when you got Tribalism. Pumping out cities as fast as you can is now more expensive.

Plus you are still 14 techs from Sed Life and have another 4-5 techs to research in Preh Era besides beelining to Sed Life.

2, Saving up Great Generals and extra animals is costing you Gold/turn as well.

Be aware of the techs that give gold producing bldgs in the Preh and Ancient Eras. Gold is tighter now from maintenance costs. Use your Gold wisely not rapidly.

Also building Chains are now more important too.

3. Those Size Matters Combined units are costing you 6 Gold per turn per unit!