GiuseppeIII
The Third Giuseppe
I really doubt it.
I just wish that at least posted what they had so far could it looked like they had a lot of the mod mod already complete
Caveman 2 Cosmos
- Thread starter strategyonly
- Start date
I just wish that at least posted what they had so far could it looked like they had a lot of the mod mod already complete
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
May she come back with something huge?I dont know why they started this and said they will release when v25 is coming out, that was the main reason i did not even tried c2c after v23. I hope they just enjoying the summer, and they will show something soon.
Knowing them, "Team Azure" probably went off to mod some other futuristic themed game. They even said ...
So this is most likely why we have not heard anything. Also for all we know they could have moved on.
rightfuture
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,649
I hope they like CIV enough to consider coming back. They should at least keep track of what is being accomplished, they may get drawn back in.
C2C is a lot farther along than most games.
heck it's probably already better than Civ 6 will likely be, other than graphics and multi-threading.
It is the gameplay that really matters.
How many are this close to greatness? If you like CIV then C2C is a lot closer to what someone wants next, than going through all the trouble to start from scratch. Besides the C2C ModTeam is already so excellent and helpful, the Azure team would be better off building with your help, than completely separate.
'Strength in numbers.'
'The whole is better than the sum of it's parts.'
"Alone we can do so little, together we can do so much'
MrAzure said he didn't know much about their efforts, I hope he decides to at least participate in the conversation, and see how far we can go. I have faith in him yet.
I think it is a good bet that C2C will recapture a lot of attention, even ROM and AND's steam, especially if we keep integrating the best of civfanatics (mods and ideas) while gradually improving and creating features.
C2C is the direction they were originally built towards. Simply continuing to get better.
Not to forget, if we can attract more modders and people willing to learn how to mod, then more can be done.
I immediately intend to make time.
It wouldn't hurt to bridge with other mod teams - like with the multi-maps, and work together to round out and incorporate some popular features. I bet we could interest a lot of modteams to work on in-tile navigable rivers in a collective and collaborative spirit. Like Multi-maps, there are some other features that could get a lot of desire from people making other mods; the disease system, weather, reworked guilds and corporations, and this could save you guys a lot of time, by freeing you up if it gets developed quicker, as well as encouraging others to come to C2C.
The guy restarting AND talks about incorporating C2C's AI and K-MOD's significant AI improvements together into AND.
Wouldn't it be better to keep the C2C, AND, and ROM people (those who keep wanting to add to it) working together, as much as possible? They are looking to finish AND.
This way the wheel does not have to keep being rediscovered.
C2C can continue to be the fastest growing ongoing community evolution.
The secret to getting more done is always leveraging more people.
I think we should encourage more people to come together.
Many new C2C players and modders must learn that the value of sticking together is in discovering how much further we can go.
2 people can travel more distance than 1.
After all, 1 person can only move so far by themselves and can only reach so far.
We need others to catch what we miss, and to challenge us to stretch.
We multiply each others efforts when we work together, and we reach past ourselves when we help someone else.
Let us make room for good people. And teach them why they should explore with us.
'United we Stand, divided we fall.' There is no doubt that we can explore farther, together.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead
C2C is the one mod that encompasses that complete vision and can exceed them all. CIV NEXT!
C2C is a lot farther along than most games.
heck it's probably already better than Civ 6 will likely be, other than graphics and multi-threading.
It is the gameplay that really matters.
How many are this close to greatness? If you like CIV then C2C is a lot closer to what someone wants next, than going through all the trouble to start from scratch. Besides the C2C ModTeam is already so excellent and helpful, the Azure team would be better off building with your help, than completely separate.
'Strength in numbers.'
'The whole is better than the sum of it's parts.'
"Alone we can do so little, together we can do so much'
MrAzure said he didn't know much about their efforts, I hope he decides to at least participate in the conversation, and see how far we can go. I have faith in him yet.
I think it is a good bet that C2C will recapture a lot of attention, even ROM and AND's steam, especially if we keep integrating the best of civfanatics (mods and ideas) while gradually improving and creating features.
C2C is the direction they were originally built towards. Simply continuing to get better.
Not to forget, if we can attract more modders and people willing to learn how to mod, then more can be done.
I immediately intend to make time.
It wouldn't hurt to bridge with other mod teams - like with the multi-maps, and work together to round out and incorporate some popular features. I bet we could interest a lot of modteams to work on in-tile navigable rivers in a collective and collaborative spirit. Like Multi-maps, there are some other features that could get a lot of desire from people making other mods; the disease system, weather, reworked guilds and corporations, and this could save you guys a lot of time, by freeing you up if it gets developed quicker, as well as encouraging others to come to C2C.
The guy restarting AND talks about incorporating C2C's AI and K-MOD's significant AI improvements together into AND.
Wouldn't it be better to keep the C2C, AND, and ROM people (those who keep wanting to add to it) working together, as much as possible? They are looking to finish AND.
This way the wheel does not have to keep being rediscovered.
C2C can continue to be the fastest growing ongoing community evolution.
The secret to getting more done is always leveraging more people.
I think we should encourage more people to come together.
Many new C2C players and modders must learn that the value of sticking together is in discovering how much further we can go.
2 people can travel more distance than 1.
After all, 1 person can only move so far by themselves and can only reach so far.
We need others to catch what we miss, and to challenge us to stretch.
We multiply each others efforts when we work together, and we reach past ourselves when we help someone else.
Let us make room for good people. And teach them why they should explore with us.
'United we Stand, divided we fall.' There is no doubt that we can explore farther, together.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead
C2C is the one mod that encompasses that complete vision and can exceed them all. CIV NEXT!
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
While its always great to have more help (and we always need it) there is something to be said on our current "team ecology". For the most part everyone gets a long and will help each other out. If someone needs some time away we will pick up the slack or even freeze that part until they return. Even the fan community has a good ecology where the moderators keep out the bullies and trolls and we listen to the players. Its not perfect but I do feel "at home" when reading and modding for C2C.
Amen. That is what I think separates us in C2C from other mod teams, is that our organization is much looser and we all trust each other for the most part. That and we are completely open with our development process, which is not normal from what I've seen in other mod communities.
Hi strategyonly I am pawel0482- great fun of civilization series.Im reading to you beacouse i have one little problem.Why in your mod when i change spearman(in CIV4UnitInfos.xml,of course) from <iGroupSize>3</iGroupSize> to <iGroupSize>5</iGroupSize> or higher and when i want to load the map the game crash to windows? Please solve that problem or add some regiment mod becouse i lkie when in unit group is more soldiers its looking more realistic and cool I COUNTING ON YOU
I COUNTING ON YOU
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Hi strategyonly I am pawel0482- great fun of civilization series.Im reading to you because i have one little problem.Why in your mod when i change spearman(in CIV4UnitInfos.xml,of course) from <iGroupSize>3</iGroupSize> to <iGroupSize>5</iGroupSize> or higher and when i want to load the map the game crash to windows? Please solve that problem or add some regiment mod because i like when in unit group is more soldiers its looking more realistic and cool
Welcome to CFC and this great mod C2C.
I will leave this question for our experts to answer
I just want to see if they come up with the correct answer is all, no offense to you or your question , thx.rightfuture
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,649
@Everybody and specifically Hydromancerx. Please bear with me and excuse my length, as this is my longest post. I don't ever intend to need to make this argument again.
I argue this all the time and I think people miss the point, so I will make my entire argument.
Part 1.
I do think that C2C can use some More help, that is why I continue to bring it up!!
The problem comes in being so conservative with involving, growing, and fostering new team members (and ideas), that too many new people are choosing not to continue participating. (MrAzure is a great example. Look at how quickly he became a valued participator) I believe that for C2C's community to grow as strongly as AND and ROM did at their best, we need more active community debate, and more hands on community participation. The team itself is doing a great job, but there is only so much they can do by themselves. I don't want them to ever experience frustration or burnout. I also don't want good ideas to get neglected because of a lack of enlisted effort. And I don't want people to just give up and leave because they do not feel heard.
I honestly think that the ModTeam just needs to get a little better at fostering and including people who want to help.
I agree that there is something to be said for the current "Team Ecology". You guys are what keeps C2C on the rails and open to better suggestions at the same time. It helps to make C2C the best mod ever!
(This is not a rant, but a serious concern! Please understand that I'm saying this because I love you guys and C2C and I want it to be the best it can be.)
If you guys always need help then please do more to enlist it.
In that vein, as head of C2C PR and Marketing, I think we need to focus more on the fan community and fostering trainees, so that ALL players feel welcome and encouraged to Continue to contribute, as well as have a clear route to becoming an officially recognized part of the team. You all do a great job of listening to players, to a point. Notice that you have more trouble keeping them than attracting and listening to them.
I see far too many good people come and go lately. Warning!
Now I don't agree with everything Sarah Starlight says, but she has a point. Maybe she is telling us why she would move on(I hope not)? (She specifically highlights communication and listening to people. - not to mention waxing toward an ambitious and not conservative future.) Do you really want to limit C2C to what most people can agree with?
For the most part, Everybody does get along, as is learning how to listen to each other's healthy disagreements, however I do think that the Core ModTeam needs to take new people more seriously, from new players, to experienced modders, so that people actually want to continue sharing their opinions, and develop a desire to become part of the team. I think the ModTeam needs to be less of 'No , we're not going to do this!' and 'More, show me why it's a better idea.' or ' Let's continue to discuss finding a solution we can agree with.'. The ModTeam is most always receptive but not always inclusive.
We need to empower people to be able to fit and add the best parts of their personal vision, so that C2C can evolve to become even greater! New players should always feel encouraged to keep participating in the debate, and new modders should be able to find enough support to step into a bigger role. The evolving community is what makes C2C become more than what the C2C Core Team can create in their linear time. The key is for the ModTeam to keep the community on course, and to moderate it's growth so it's not out of control (or 'Off the Rails'), and that it is 'loose' enough to keep the free exploration of ideas. For C2C to remain fun, and getting ever better, then it must find a way to balance and fit realism and imagination together.
In my opinion, one reason mods die or split off into new projects, is that people feel their ideas are not appreciated. I think mod-mod's can be healthy if they continue to work together (like AND and C2C's cross-pollination of work and ideas.) Work should be bridged to allow both projects to explore different territory and for the core to stay healthy and progressing. Instead of letting people drift away, like MrAzure (and many others) we should let them freedom to explore their personal vision, while finding a way to share their best with the community effort.
Without out a doubt the biggest lesson C2C learned from AND and ROM was to involve the community, and find a way to integrate everyone's personal vision, not equally, but in the best way, and with the best ideas, so that the best C2C continues to come from it. The moment that C2C gives up on(or gives in completely to) it's community, and only focuses on what the ModTeam wants, it becomes the moment that C2C goes the way of Civ V, ROM, and AND, when they stopped having vision.
I think the only way for C2C to become truly great is for C2C to organize itself and free the community and ModTeam to do more, while improving upon everybody's best parts, and striving for more! For C2C to continue to have unlimited potential is must find a way to add more while not losing what makes it special, and that starts with the ModTeam.
Isn't the point to have the best team possible, so that C2C can get even better? We need to keep from limiting C2C and allow it have most ambitious and brightest future it can have!.
We have to stay open to the next MrAzure and Hydromancerx that comes along, whether they take a minute or a day to come around, as much as the ModTeam is, they are the future of C2C.
We have to find, listen to, and be willing to make the effort to keep them. And we have to help them make C2C their home so they can have their own place in it. For they are our community.
You said it yourself.
I hope we make room for all loose ideas and diversity of people. Not everyone can come up with a ton of brilliant ideas, but I argue that anyone might come up with at least one.
I argue this all the time and I think people miss the point, so I will make my entire argument.
Part 1.
I do think that C2C can use some More help, that is why I continue to bring it up!!
The problem comes in being so conservative with involving, growing, and fostering new team members (and ideas), that too many new people are choosing not to continue participating. (MrAzure is a great example. Look at how quickly he became a valued participator) I believe that for C2C's community to grow as strongly as AND and ROM did at their best, we need more active community debate, and more hands on community participation. The team itself is doing a great job, but there is only so much they can do by themselves. I don't want them to ever experience frustration or burnout. I also don't want good ideas to get neglected because of a lack of enlisted effort. And I don't want people to just give up and leave because they do not feel heard.
I honestly think that the ModTeam just needs to get a little better at fostering and including people who want to help.
I agree that there is something to be said for the current "Team Ecology". You guys are what keeps C2C on the rails and open to better suggestions at the same time. It helps to make C2C the best mod ever!
(This is not a rant, but a serious concern! Please understand that I'm saying this because I love you guys and C2C and I want it to be the best it can be.)
If you guys always need help then please do more to enlist it.
In that vein, as head of C2C PR and Marketing, I think we need to focus more on the fan community and fostering trainees, so that ALL players feel welcome and encouraged to Continue to contribute, as well as have a clear route to becoming an officially recognized part of the team. You all do a great job of listening to players, to a point. Notice that you have more trouble keeping them than attracting and listening to them.
I see far too many good people come and go lately. Warning!
I also think that sometimes I'm not heard. I can handle it, but I just don't want that for new players.
Now I don't agree with everything Sarah Starlight says, but she has a point. Maybe she is telling us why she would move on(I hope not)? (She specifically highlights communication and listening to people. - not to mention waxing toward an ambitious and not conservative future.) Do you really want to limit C2C to what most people can agree with?
I hope not!btw if you waiting for any of Sarah Starlight's stuff, in the modmod, it looks like she just disappointed EVERYONE, looks like she is gone for good.
May she come back with something huge?
Let's be positive and open to them coming back!I really doubt it.
For the most part, Everybody does get along, as is learning how to listen to each other's healthy disagreements, however I do think that the Core ModTeam needs to take new people more seriously, from new players, to experienced modders, so that people actually want to continue sharing their opinions, and develop a desire to become part of the team. I think the ModTeam needs to be less of 'No , we're not going to do this!' and 'More, show me why it's a better idea.' or ' Let's continue to discuss finding a solution we can agree with.'. The ModTeam is most always receptive but not always inclusive.
We need to empower people to be able to fit and add the best parts of their personal vision, so that C2C can evolve to become even greater! New players should always feel encouraged to keep participating in the debate, and new modders should be able to find enough support to step into a bigger role. The evolving community is what makes C2C become more than what the C2C Core Team can create in their linear time. The key is for the ModTeam to keep the community on course, and to moderate it's growth so it's not out of control (or 'Off the Rails'), and that it is 'loose' enough to keep the free exploration of ideas. For C2C to remain fun, and getting ever better, then it must find a way to balance and fit realism and imagination together.
In my opinion, one reason mods die or split off into new projects, is that people feel their ideas are not appreciated. I think mod-mod's can be healthy if they continue to work together (like AND and C2C's cross-pollination of work and ideas.) Work should be bridged to allow both projects to explore different territory and for the core to stay healthy and progressing. Instead of letting people drift away, like MrAzure (and many others) we should let them freedom to explore their personal vision, while finding a way to share their best with the community effort.
Without out a doubt the biggest lesson C2C learned from AND and ROM was to involve the community, and find a way to integrate everyone's personal vision, not equally, but in the best way, and with the best ideas, so that the best C2C continues to come from it. The moment that C2C gives up on(or gives in completely to) it's community, and only focuses on what the ModTeam wants, it becomes the moment that C2C goes the way of Civ V, ROM, and AND, when they stopped having vision.
I think the only way for C2C to become truly great is for C2C to organize itself and free the community and ModTeam to do more, while improving upon everybody's best parts, and striving for more! For C2C to continue to have unlimited potential is must find a way to add more while not losing what makes it special, and that starts with the ModTeam.
Isn't the point to have the best team possible, so that C2C can get even better? We need to keep from limiting C2C and allow it have most ambitious and brightest future it can have!.
We have to stay open to the next MrAzure and Hydromancerx that comes along, whether they take a minute or a day to come around, as much as the ModTeam is, they are the future of C2C.
We have to find, listen to, and be willing to make the effort to keep them. And we have to help them make C2C their home so they can have their own place in it. For they are our community.
You said it yourself.
@MrAzure
That's great! Harnessing all your enthusiasm and ideas is awesome! One thing I have noticed when I went from "mod pesterer" to "mod modder" is that you can only add your ideas as fast as you can mod. You also gain an insight into what you can do and what you can't. However with the help of other modders the line of what you can't do is very far away.
I look forward to all your future contributions and am sure your ideas will make C2C even more rich and diverse. I am very impressed by your ideas and even am shocked that I did not come up with many of them already. I am so glad you are helping and want to help with C2C.
Hopefully out co-creation shall make C2C better than either one of us could imagine and with a little healthy debate and brainstorming we can come up with some awesome features for C2C.
On a side not I was not sure what to think of you when you first posted. So many loose ideas it was hard to keep up. But I think as time as gone on both you have learned the ropes and I have learned to follow your insanely brilliant posts.
I hope we make room for all loose ideas and diversity of people. Not everyone can come up with a ton of brilliant ideas, but I argue that anyone might come up with at least one.
rightfuture
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,649
..to continue my thought
Part 2.
@Everybody and Ls612 specifically,
I have to agree with almost everything you and Hydromancerx have said. But not all.
Part of the reason that C2C does so well, is that you can keep it fun as well as openly ambitious.
I also agree and believe that the loose structure is what gives all of you freedom to work as you want to, and the ability to tackle problems as you wish. C2C also benefits from the goal of wanting 'more' and even more importantly, from aspiring to keep making things better.
StrategyOnly said it best:
So I only disagree with 2 things here.
1. Organization.
I think that C2C needs to commit to better organization, and future plans, so that it doesn't end up wandering chaotically and dividing into individual pursuits.
Like regular commitment to squashing bugs, balancing, and creating the freeze period, organization can only make C2C better. The loose structure gives the ModTeam freedom to move. Becoming more organized and creating a flexible plan can also give freedom. Freedom from reinventing the wheel, Freedom from having to fix everything yourself, and freedom from benefiting from other's ideas so you can pursue your own.
But like the TV Show Lost (if you've seen it), working spontaneously without a plan, can descend into chaos, Even though it rises to random greatness.
Ultimately 'Failure to plan is planning to fail!' Likewise, planning everything will choke the freedom to move, and evolve into something greater. The balance of gameplay realism and fun exploration of imagination is vital, you must have both to survive.
C2C's progress is going quite well, but it could be even better with a little more organization and coordination.
Working together is what keeps C2C from just being a collection of individuals just pursuing their own projects. It also allows people to help each other out so their collective and individual efforts are multiplied. After all we can only reach so far by ourselves, and we are blind to what we can easily miss by ourselves. ('Alone we can do so little, together we can do so much' ~Helen Keller) And organization will allow us to achieve all we want to do together, and not get bogged by the chaos of being individually, or collectively thrown off the rails. For C2C to succeed it must balance the will of individuals and the group, and it must organize itself from being overwhelmed by the will of either.
2. The value of keeping, listening to, and involving new players.
I truly believe that the ModTeam must continue to remember that the C2C Community plays the same role as well. They balance and compliment each other. We simply must not forget that every new person brings value to C2C (as long as they don't troll, or divide the community). The community brings the value of crowdsourcing, brainstorming, a check-and-balance to the ModTeam, and the bringing of new ideas, and potential new teammates.
It's their fun too!
We must remember that anyone could be the next giant, that we hope will want to stand with us.
Remember to stay friendly, and open to the ideas of other's. You never know when the challenge of someone who disagrees with you can propel you to a breakthrough. And Like MrAzure, you never know when a new player can come along and make the best teammate ever, and you never know when you can drive them away. We are all better off with each other.
We all want freedom to pursue our ideas, and if we can do that together, we have the freedom to do far more than that. Never forget that the other players, modders, and community is what brought us here and together in the first place. And never forget to listen, as we would want to be listened to. We are all still players of Civilization and that is what brought us together. Don't overlook, disagree with to the point of driving away, or ignore the next player like yourself to come along. (don't ignore me again either, Ls612! I'm also talking to you directly)
As StrategyOnly reminds us, this isn't just our mod. It is everyone's. Let's remember to work together to make it the best of both worlds. Let's remember to help build in options so they can play it their way as well!
I hope we can encourage the teams of all mods to come together and make the best Civilization game ever with us. We all share that same goal, to create and play the best Civ ever. Like the progression of ROM, AND, and now C2C, We have inherited the possibility of making the best civilization game ever. Let's do it together for the Love of Civ!
I appreciate that the ModTeam does work to keep things together. I just hope it continues to be open to the community and new users/modders/teammates, and doesn't fall into groupthink.
Why does C2C have to get slower?, to accomplish more we just have to open ourselves to improvement
and work together better to enhance our efficiency. New blood keeps us challenged.
Getting the right new help is the secret to keeping things fresh and evolving.
You never know when one of the "newbies" will make all the difference.
Part 2.
@Everybody and Ls612 specifically,
I have to agree with almost everything you and Hydromancerx have said. But not all.
Part of the reason that C2C does so well, is that you can keep it fun as well as openly ambitious.
I also agree and believe that the loose structure is what gives all of you freedom to work as you want to, and the ability to tackle problems as you wish. C2C also benefits from the goal of wanting 'more' and even more importantly, from aspiring to keep making things better.
StrategyOnly said it best:
Thats what is "fun" about this mod, you play it the way "YOU" want it to be played. Thats why you can always play a different game and ALMOST no other two will be the same, and each game will approximately take you at least OVER 100 hours to play.
So I only disagree with 2 things here.
1. Organization.
I think that C2C needs to commit to better organization, and future plans, so that it doesn't end up wandering chaotically and dividing into individual pursuits.
Like regular commitment to squashing bugs, balancing, and creating the freeze period, organization can only make C2C better. The loose structure gives the ModTeam freedom to move. Becoming more organized and creating a flexible plan can also give freedom. Freedom from reinventing the wheel, Freedom from having to fix everything yourself, and freedom from benefiting from other's ideas so you can pursue your own.
But like the TV Show Lost (if you've seen it), working spontaneously without a plan, can descend into chaos, Even though it rises to random greatness.
Ultimately 'Failure to plan is planning to fail!' Likewise, planning everything will choke the freedom to move, and evolve into something greater. The balance of gameplay realism and fun exploration of imagination is vital, you must have both to survive.
C2C's progress is going quite well, but it could be even better with a little more organization and coordination.
Working together is what keeps C2C from just being a collection of individuals just pursuing their own projects. It also allows people to help each other out so their collective and individual efforts are multiplied. After all we can only reach so far by ourselves, and we are blind to what we can easily miss by ourselves. ('Alone we can do so little, together we can do so much' ~Helen Keller) And organization will allow us to achieve all we want to do together, and not get bogged by the chaos of being individually, or collectively thrown off the rails. For C2C to succeed it must balance the will of individuals and the group, and it must organize itself from being overwhelmed by the will of either.
2. The value of keeping, listening to, and involving new players.
I truly believe that the ModTeam must continue to remember that the C2C Community plays the same role as well. They balance and compliment each other. We simply must not forget that every new person brings value to C2C (as long as they don't troll, or divide the community). The community brings the value of crowdsourcing, brainstorming, a check-and-balance to the ModTeam, and the bringing of new ideas, and potential new teammates.
It's their fun too!
We must remember that anyone could be the next giant, that we hope will want to stand with us.
Remember to stay friendly, and open to the ideas of other's. You never know when the challenge of someone who disagrees with you can propel you to a breakthrough. And Like MrAzure, you never know when a new player can come along and make the best teammate ever, and you never know when you can drive them away. We are all better off with each other.
We all want freedom to pursue our ideas, and if we can do that together, we have the freedom to do far more than that. Never forget that the other players, modders, and community is what brought us here and together in the first place. And never forget to listen, as we would want to be listened to. We are all still players of Civilization and that is what brought us together. Don't overlook, disagree with to the point of driving away, or ignore the next player like yourself to come along. (don't ignore me again either, Ls612! I'm also talking to you directly)
Couldn't have said it better myselfThe main thing is "OPTIONs." Its YOUR game, your way YOU want to play it.
As StrategyOnly reminds us, this isn't just our mod. It is everyone's. Let's remember to work together to make it the best of both worlds. Let's remember to help build in options so they can play it their way as well!
Options is the name of the game, the more the better, and "we" are getting there. Just give us time, we are trying a whole new ballgame here. As with FfH2, they started off same ole same ole, but look at what it has become, a far better Civ IV than Civ IV.= (for a fantasy game that is). [/B]
I hope we can encourage the teams of all mods to come together and make the best Civilization game ever with us. We all share that same goal, to create and play the best Civ ever. Like the progression of ROM, AND, and now C2C, We have inherited the possibility of making the best civilization game ever. Let's do it together for the Love of Civ!
C2C is a democracy (sort of), most of the modders are in the US, welcome to the tyranny of the majority.
I appreciate that the ModTeam does work to keep things together. I just hope it continues to be open to the community and new users/modders/teammates, and doesn't fall into groupthink.
(in Reference to Team Azure).It is a different emphasis to the main mod and this way they have much more flexibility in development. The main mod is worked on by "oldies" who are slow to react to suggestions and changes in direction.
Why does C2C have to get slower?, to accomplish more we just have to open ourselves to improvement
and work together better to enhance our efficiency. New blood keeps us challenged.
Getting the right new help is the secret to keeping things fresh and evolving.
You never know when one of the "newbies" will make all the difference.
rightfuture
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,649
Part 3.
...so to finish and summarize.
I also think of C2C and everybody as my home (away from home),
I've played Civilization since it first came out.
I've lurked on the Civfanatics board for ages,
I've even gotten a few ideas into different mods, and discussed thousands more.
I'm even starting to mod, and try to earn my way into the C2C ModTeam.
I know that people don't always agree with me.
I don't expect everyone to listen to all my ideas.
But please take a moment to hear me out.
I just want to do my part to guarantee that C2C continues to be the best it can be..
This persuasive statement matters to me, and I hope it matters to you.
1. I'm concerned that C2C makes a place for the next generation of Civ people.
2. I want C2C to be organized enough that it can accomplish everything it wants to, and doesn't have to end.
Here are my 3 things that I think makes C2C truly successful.
1. Shared purpose and vision to make the best Civilization game possible.
2. Willingness to combine everybody's best individual and group efforts, in the smartest way and most open way possible.
3. Desire to keep exploring and push the limits of what is possible.
Other than all of you.
All Glory and Thanks to Strategy Only, the entire ModTeam including the core members Dancing Hoskuld, Koshling, Hydromancerx, Ori, and AI-Andy. As well members like MrAzure, Vokarya, Thundrbrd, Praetyre, Acularius, JosEPh_II, EldrinFal, , Civ Fuehrer, and others I have overlooked,
including Afforess, Zappara, Glider1, Dale and all the luminaires and contributors to Civ, REVDCM, ROM, and AND over the years,
as well as my new friends, and all the aspiring modders, and players who have and will add their 2 cents. As much as It comes from me you are the reason I call C2C home.
If all I have is today, may I ask that you make the most of tomorrow.
If I could change 3 things in C2C.
1. Team up better: I would build a mentor and partnership system. So that everyone would have direct teammates, mentors, and apprentices, including new players. This way everyone would know they are ongoing part of C2C, and have help to answer all questions, so they will always feel comfortable giving their best to make C2C everything it could be. And I would grow the team.
2. Organize for success: I would organize everything in C2C to make it easier to pursue ideas and get things done. (already working hard on what I can.) This way the best ideas can find their way into C2C.
3. I would encourage others to keep thinking outside the C2C box, by using C2C to more realistically model and vastly explore the possibilities of living history, and infinite futures to the limits of fun, and creation.
I also feel the development cycle of each version of C2C should be a little longer (2 months maybe) and that the freeze cycle produces a more stable version (since that is probably the biggest player concern next to being able to control the amount of buildings, or ongoing gold balance.) Adjusting it could solve some of C2C's major problems with relative ease. Grouping buildings to make them easier to manage, and allowing people to choose to optionally select the prehistoric and future eras, or just start from the one you want(great for playtesting) would probably make a pretty significant group of people happy.
Thanks again for taking a little of your time to hear me out.
I only want the best for everyone and C2C.
I hope to hear what you all think.
...so to finish and summarize.
I also think of C2C and everybody as my home (away from home),
I've played Civilization since it first came out.
I've lurked on the Civfanatics board for ages,
I've even gotten a few ideas into different mods, and discussed thousands more.
I'm even starting to mod, and try to earn my way into the C2C ModTeam.
I know that people don't always agree with me.
I don't expect everyone to listen to all my ideas.
But please take a moment to hear me out.
I just want to do my part to guarantee that C2C continues to be the best it can be..
This persuasive statement matters to me, and I hope it matters to you.
1. I'm concerned that C2C makes a place for the next generation of Civ people.
2. I want C2C to be organized enough that it can accomplish everything it wants to, and doesn't have to end.
While I was drifting of to sleep last night I was thinking what factors made C2C so successful, and I have narrowed it down to 3 things ...
1. C2C Sub-Forum - Without our own sub-forum we would be lost in the RoM/AND modmod section where no one could find us and have to sort though our posts as well as other mods posts.
2. SVN - Without the SVN we could not quickly share changes with each other. We would have to depend upon attachments and more often we would probably conflict with each other all the time and never have the same version.
3. Save Compatibility - The fact we can make a chnage and not have to start a new game is HUGE! If not for this feature we would not be as far as we are now.
Many thanks to the C2C team, past contributors, testers and players who have made C2C possible. Even a year ago I would not have imagined what we can do now. So thank you all!
Here are my 3 things that I think makes C2C truly successful.
1. Shared purpose and vision to make the best Civilization game possible.
2. Willingness to combine everybody's best individual and group efforts, in the smartest way and most open way possible.
3. Desire to keep exploring and push the limits of what is possible.
Other than all of you.
All Glory and Thanks to Strategy Only, the entire ModTeam including the core members Dancing Hoskuld, Koshling, Hydromancerx, Ori, and AI-Andy. As well members like MrAzure, Vokarya, Thundrbrd, Praetyre, Acularius, JosEPh_II, EldrinFal, , Civ Fuehrer, and others I have overlooked,
including Afforess, Zappara, Glider1, Dale and all the luminaires and contributors to Civ, REVDCM, ROM, and AND over the years,
as well as my new friends, and all the aspiring modders, and players who have and will add their 2 cents. As much as It comes from me you are the reason I call C2C home.
If all I have is today, may I ask that you make the most of tomorrow.
If I could change 3 things in C2C.
1. Team up better: I would build a mentor and partnership system. So that everyone would have direct teammates, mentors, and apprentices, including new players. This way everyone would know they are ongoing part of C2C, and have help to answer all questions, so they will always feel comfortable giving their best to make C2C everything it could be. And I would grow the team.
2. Organize for success: I would organize everything in C2C to make it easier to pursue ideas and get things done. (already working hard on what I can.) This way the best ideas can find their way into C2C.
3. I would encourage others to keep thinking outside the C2C box, by using C2C to more realistically model and vastly explore the possibilities of living history, and infinite futures to the limits of fun, and creation.
I also feel the development cycle of each version of C2C should be a little longer (2 months maybe) and that the freeze cycle produces a more stable version (since that is probably the biggest player concern next to being able to control the amount of buildings, or ongoing gold balance.) Adjusting it could solve some of C2C's major problems with relative ease. Grouping buildings to make them easier to manage, and allowing people to choose to optionally select the prehistoric and future eras, or just start from the one you want(great for playtesting) would probably make a pretty significant group of people happy.
Thanks again for taking a little of your time to hear me out.
I only want the best for everyone and C2C.
I hope to hear what you all think.
rightfuture
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,649
Hi strategyonly I am pawel0482- great fun of civilization series.Im reading to you beacouse i have one little problem.Why in your mod when i change spearman(in CIV4UnitInfos.xml,of course) from <iGroupSize>3</iGroupSize> to <iGroupSize>5</iGroupSize> or higher and when i want to load the map the game crash to windows? Please solve that problem or add some regiment mod becouse i lkie when in unit group is more soldiers its looking more realistic and cool
Welcome pawel0482!
Please feel free to make this as much your home as you wish. I am here for you. Glad to answer any of your questions that I can.
I hope every C2C player feels comfortable enough to share their opinions/ideas and ask for help!
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Well... I actually read all that RF
I agree with many of your assertions. I think we do need to be careful with how we manage ourselves, particularly with input from others, and make sure that we do so in as respectful and appreciative manner as possible. And yes, we need more help to fill in some gaps.
But I hear notes of fear in there.. and potentially even a little anger (perhaps feeling as if we pushed away a great asset.) I can understand why you feel this way and I've spent some time considering those things too.
However, I do think we've found a good balance between rapid progress and ongoing balancing and its a tough thing to keep in harmony. As a team, we need to make sure we don't allow our growth to outpace our refinement and in many ways, we already have. This is why things need to be done in deliberate and carefully planned steps and if things get too out of control for the team to even review and add their feedback, then it should probably slow down a bit.
Do we need better communication and teamwork? We could probably use some in some areas, but that's why we have the forum and I think it works fairly well most of the time.
I agree with many of your assertions. I think we do need to be careful with how we manage ourselves, particularly with input from others, and make sure that we do so in as respectful and appreciative manner as possible. And yes, we need more help to fill in some gaps.
But I hear notes of fear in there.. and potentially even a little anger (perhaps feeling as if we pushed away a great asset.) I can understand why you feel this way and I've spent some time considering those things too.
However, I do think we've found a good balance between rapid progress and ongoing balancing and its a tough thing to keep in harmony. As a team, we need to make sure we don't allow our growth to outpace our refinement and in many ways, we already have. This is why things need to be done in deliberate and carefully planned steps and if things get too out of control for the team to even review and add their feedback, then it should probably slow down a bit.
Do we need better communication and teamwork? We could probably use some in some areas, but that's why we have the forum and I think it works fairly well most of the time.
rightfuture
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,649
Well... I actually read all that RF
I agree with many of your assertions. I think we do need to be careful with how we manage ourselves, particularly with input from others, and make sure that we do so in as respectful and appreciative manner as possible. And yes, we need more help to fill in some gaps.
But I hear notes of fear in there.. and potentially even a little anger (perhaps feeling as if we pushed away a great asset.) I can understand why you feel this way and I've spent some time considering those things too.
However, I do think we've found a good balance between rapid progress and ongoing balancing and its a tough thing to keep in harmony. As a team, we need to make sure we don't allow our growth to outpace our refinement and in many ways, we already have. This is why things need to be done in deliberate and carefully planned steps and if things get too out of control for the team to even review and add their feedback, then it should probably slow down a bit.
Do we need better communication and teamwork? We could probably use some in some areas, but that's why we have the forum and I think it works fairly well most of the time.
Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful words.
Not so much anger as concern.
Fear perhaps, mostly because I view C2C as just coming into it's own, and I'm worried about driving people away like MrAzure.
Your Team balance is quite good, I'm actually quite impressed at several levels, and I do believe I have an unfortunately precise awareness for such things. Your communication is mostly fine, it's more coordination than failure to communicate.
Some simple and easy planning would solve any real major problems that you all have.
The only real concern is the balance of vision and accomplishment, and your (the ModTeam's) ability to sustain momentum and enlist help.
I'm willing to make a prediction that C2C will likely be more popular (regular activity and progress) than ROM, or AND relatively soon (6 mths - 1 year, 2 at absolute worst) even with some conservative checks to momentum. As far as I can see, nothing really stands a chance of replacing it.
I surely could help accelerate that timeframe, but it might actually be good to slow it down a bit.
I'm actually a bit concerned it could become a little too popular, once it actually reaches the awareness level. (I've actually had to suspend my efforts, and be careful about how much attention C2C is getting.)
I don't want all those people coming, getting frustrated. and moving on, without C2C realizing a few more major features, and being capable of fostering that extra attention. (I have a feel for this since I've generated way to much growth many times before).
I could also easily overload C2C with some notable ideas, marketing and otherwise, C2C already has plenty to handle, I've had to severely pace myself on mentioning them. I almost rather see what you guys come up with without my 'interference'. (You all should probably know that I've collected and brainstormed ideas for 28 years or so on similar type games. At some point my knowledge could be useful.) I'm an idea person more than anything else. I consider it somewhat of a curse now. Frankly, I'd rather participate in a team, than care about getting noticed.
MrAzure has given me some hope that C2C might be capable of handling a portion of them at some point.
I really dislike the thought of a good idea getting forgotten or wasted. That is why I care about them so.
It is nice seeing major things eventually getting developed in C2C.
I'm glad just to share a little and participate in the progress.
I know that you don't actually need much of my help, if any.
You all have just recently made me insanely curious on what I could accomplish with you guys, and I've always loved where you were headed with C2C.
That is why I probably care so much.
It could also be the fact that I had to face mortality recently. My doctors, friends, fiancee, and family think that most anyone shouldn't be able to handle this much of an ongoing life challenge. I'm purely estatic I'm ok for the moment. I'm motivated to make the most of my situation, but I hope you can see my thoughts past all that.
I'd rather the truth of my words make an honest impact on you and the others.
I still believe that there is some cause for concern, and some ability to easily accomplish more. I know you may have to see it clearly for yourself.
I just want a chance to make a difference for you guys, and give you all something significant in return for the opportunity to see such great things done, as you all have accomplished with C2C. If you continue to give your best, I'm sure that C2C will be most everything Civ 6 should be and more.
I Hope you know that you all inspire me, I want the very best for each of you.
Thank you again for hearing me out and responding so quickly.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@rightfuture
I have tried to mentor ls612, MrAzure and steampunk1880. Steampunk1880 disappeared after trying to teach him to mod buildings, MrAzure was a on a roll until the whole "Team Azure" fiasco and ls612 has been doing great. Teaching is a 2 way street and I cannot mentor if they don't want to learn. Likewise I cannot mentor 3 people and mod at the same time. If say ls612 wants to mentor someone I think he could now. MrAzure and even Sarah are welcome back if they want to become active again. And I would gladly resume teaching Steampunk1880 how to mod the Alternative Timeline stuff if he returned.
I have also tried to get Acularius and Gnarlo to do more audio quotes but I cannot force them to do it. After all we are all volunteers and if someone has RL things to attend to it comes first. On a side note I wish Civ Fuehrer would get back into modding for civ4 but that's neither here nor there.
EDIT: I also make an effort to inform Quill18 and the Gaming Steve forum that new versions have come out each time there is a new release.
I have tried to mentor ls612, MrAzure and steampunk1880. Steampunk1880 disappeared after trying to teach him to mod buildings, MrAzure was a on a roll until the whole "Team Azure" fiasco and ls612 has been doing great. Teaching is a 2 way street and I cannot mentor if they don't want to learn. Likewise I cannot mentor 3 people and mod at the same time. If say ls612 wants to mentor someone I think he could now. MrAzure and even Sarah are welcome back if they want to become active again. And I would gladly resume teaching Steampunk1880 how to mod the Alternative Timeline stuff if he returned.
I have also tried to get Acularius and Gnarlo to do more audio quotes but I cannot force them to do it. After all we are all volunteers and if someone has RL things to attend to it comes first. On a side note I wish Civ Fuehrer would get back into modding for civ4 but that's neither here nor there.
EDIT: I also make an effort to inform Quill18 and the Gaming Steve forum that new versions have come out each time there is a new release.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I think it is <iRequired> that you need to change but I have not played with that aspect so I am not sure. I don't think anyone else has which is why no one answered.
GUYS!
Just a random impulse to THANK and COMPLIMENT you ALL!!!
I've been playing C2C since probably v.18 or so - and you've done SO MUCH improvement since then...
I do see C2C being the most-potential mod that Civ4 ever saw.
Thus, I wish you all GREAT success in doing it - and I'm very serious in suggesting you finish the job by actually pushing it through to be an OFFICIAL UPGRADE (well, in version 100 maybe), the same way BTS is an official add-on.
No jokes - if you really make all these HUGE changes you are planning to (and more, MUCH more), I see no reason NOT to release it that way.
Of course, it would happen at least in 2014 or so, but I so WANT it to happen.
(Plus, it does mean RL money for your work - and I would like it this way!)
GOOD LUCK!!!
Just a random impulse to THANK and COMPLIMENT you ALL!!!
I've been playing C2C since probably v.18 or so - and you've done SO MUCH improvement since then...
I do see C2C being the most-potential mod that Civ4 ever saw.
Thus, I wish you all GREAT success in doing it - and I'm very serious in suggesting you finish the job by actually pushing it through to be an OFFICIAL UPGRADE (well, in version 100 maybe), the same way BTS is an official add-on.
No jokes - if you really make all these HUGE changes you are planning to (and more, MUCH more), I see no reason NOT to release it that way.
Of course, it would happen at least in 2014 or so, but I so WANT it to happen.
(Plus, it does mean RL money for your work - and I would like it this way!)
GOOD LUCK!!!
