Caveman 2 Cosmos

[God-Emperor]

There used to be only 2 hunter promotions. Now there are 4.

With so many promotions the first one could be much less powerful. Currently it gives +50% vs. the animal unitcombat, a first strike chance, and +35% to the subdue animals outcome (and -10% vs. melee, archer, and throwing units). I would suggest that removing the penalty but also reducing it to +25% vs. the animal unit combat, keeping the 1 fist strike chance, and reducing it to +5% for the subdue animals outcome is not unreasonable. You could then bump up the Hunter 2 from +5% subdue to +20% subdue and the 3rd and 4th could go from +15% to +20% to subdue (reducing the combined sum from +70% to +65%, which should not be a problem - back when there were only 2 they were the same +35% and +5% that they still are, for a total of +40% which seem good enough at the time).

That way, the first one (which is free in the early parts of the game, especially in the capital since the building that gives it for free comes before you can get a second city) has no penalty but also not as much benefit.

I'd also suggest that the -15/-15/-20% for the 2nd through 3rd promotions vs. melee, archer, and throwing units seems a excessive. I don't see why being really good at hunting animals should give you a -50% to fight other units. The unit is already worse at fighting other units since it did not take promotions that make it better at it when it could have done so - it could have combat 1 though 3 instead. Does the Shock promotion, which gives +20% vs. melee give a penalty to fight animals or any other units? No it does not. So why are the hunting promotions so different?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The first bit of your suggestion is almost exactly what I am testing now.

The only reason for the malus against combat units is because people were complaining about supper hunters. Personally I think it is more likely they have used the options that don't drop the current exp of the unit when it is upgraded, as I am not having that problem.

 

[stp52x]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for this tremendous work!

I have one concerns and one very important question:

1) I'm running the mod on a 64 bit computer with 8 gb of ram and I'm also getting memory allocation crashes. I'll see what the anti-aliasing is on and I'll lower it. But I'm wondering if there is anything else I can do to reduce the strain on memory.

2) ...have the battle mechanics been radically altered? Because it appears as though even high probabilities of success in battle, yield very poor results in this mod. This is an age old problem in Civ IV but...it's particularly pronounced in this mod, where I've often lose multiple consecutive units with above 98% probability of success. I reload the most recent save and try the battle again (with the reseed option turned on, obviously) and I lose the units again and again.

This is massively aggravating when it takes 5 minutes to load a game.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for this tremendous work!

I have one concerns and one very important question:

1) I'm running the mod on a 64 bit computer with 8 gb of ram and I'm also getting memory allocation crashes. I'll see what the anti-aliasing is on and I'll lower it. But I'm wondering if there is anything else I can do to reduce the strain on memory.

2) ...have the battle mechanics been radically altered? Because it appears as though even high probabilities of success in battle, yield very poor results in this mod. This is an age old problem in Civ IV but...it's particularly pronounced in this mod, where I've often lose multiple consecutive units with above 98% probability of success. I reload the most recent save and try the battle again (with the reseed option turned on, obviously) and I lose the units again and again.

This is massively aggravating when it takes 5 minutes to load a game.

1) Dunno.
2) There have been changes but shouldn't be that drastic. I'm aware we're getting reports like yours but the majority were apparently down to one of the following:

1 - Some defensive buildings will damage attacking units as they come in and that will alter the odds by the time the battle begins. There should be a warning in the combat odds help hover if this is going to happen though.

2 - If you attack with a group of units at once, the system seems to like to pick a worse attacker than the one being evaluated and shown to you in the help hover before you actually attack. Until this can be rectified, which is not a simple matter, you are advised to make sure you do not use any stack attack option or method - individually select units to attack with so you can get an honest reading on the odds.


I suspect something else might be taking place as well and I'm looking for it but have no further clues than various reports like yours.

 

[stp52x]

1) Dunno.
2) There have been changes but shouldn't be that drastic. I'm aware we're getting reports like yours but the majority were apparently down to one of the following:

1 - Some defensive buildings will damage attacking units as they come in and that will alter the odds by the time the battle begins. There should be a warning in the combat odds help hover if this is going to happen though.

2 - If you attack with a group of units at once, the system seems to like to pick a worse attacker than the one being evaluated and shown to you in the help hover before you actually attack. Until this can be rectified, which is not a simple matter, you are advised to make sure you do not use any stack attack option or method - individually select units to attack with so you can get an honest reading on the odds.


I suspect something else might be taking place as well and I'm looking for it but have no further clues than various reports like yours.

Ahhh! Thank you! That possibility had occurred to me, that it was selecting a worse (or the worst?) unit to initiate the attack!

I've noticed that a similar problem takes place in defensive combat, where it displays a preference for weaker units over the more powerful ones. This would make sense if the odds were deeply in favor of the AI aggressor and that by sacrificing a weaker unit it spares the more powerful one (and, my memory fails me, but I think that that was precisely what happened.)

But I also sincerely believe that there is a glitch in the reseeding feature, because I do believe that on a few occasions I initiated the combat by selecting the individual units.

 

[Yudishtira]

But I also sincerely believe that there is a glitch in the reseeding feature, because I do believe that on a few occasions I initiated the combat by selecting the individual units.

That's unlikely to be a glitch in the reseeding, since when you change the order of attackers, even if the same sequence of random numbers is used, they will apply to different combats (where you have better odds than you did before).

It could still be a glitch in the odds reported by mouseover though. Check the combat log after a combat, and see if the odds reported there were markedly different. (It needs to be a combat where the attacker was not damaged by traps before attacking). If they are different, upload a save from before the combat to the main bug thread. (It doesn't have to be immediately before, as long as all the same conditions are set up - surround & destroy etc. - with respect to that particular attack).

On a related note (and I haven't got the latest SVN), in a recent city attack of mine, I noticed the following:

When an attacker withdraws or is forced to back down, the same (damaged) defender is picked for the next combat. I could alternate attacks with my weakest units, and still have 99+% odds. Archers and War Cats winning combats against Medieval/Renaissance cities with full-strength defenders still inside! The last defender was a full-strength Guard!

Stack Attack is bound to have all sorts of trouble with that, but if you know it's happening (and choose the attacking unit each time), it gives you a huge advantage.

 

[jjake101]

I've got a suggestion for a new C2C leader.

Name: John F. Kennedy
Traits: Creative, Charismatic, Organised
Historical Importance:
- Was the president who initiated the Apollo program
- Prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis from escalating

 

[Kelvrin]

extracting this from the 7z has been really annoying. I got errors saying "Unsupported compression method" for 13,873 out of 13,958 files. I had to install Ubuntu Linux on a separate hard drive, Install the linux version of 7zip, extract the files, boot back into windows and move the folder to the mods folder.

It works fine though I'm wondering why Japan doesn't have any unique units.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

People with the very latest version of 7zip can do it in windows. I did.

No nation has unique units. In fact we are working (albeit slowly) on getting rid of all the starting nations with the aim of making you build your nation from scratch as you play. On the other hand each culture should have a unique unit and a couple of heroes. We are working on that too but a lot faster.

 

[Kelvrin]

LOL I was using version 465 instead of the most recent version of 920.

 

[Cosmic Fox]

I'm running a game (verson 9,6 in desura, should be the newest?) where I have a remarkable hard time controlling my borders. All my competitors seem to effortlessly expand their borders into my lands, but it never happens the other way. in the beginning I would gain land from combat victory, but that has stopped (I suspect that since everyone has closed borders). Is that a "feature"? cause it is rather annoying

Desura never did work very well. You are better off using the download in my signature which is Mod DB, I use auto installed no muss no fuss

 

[Thunderbrd]

That's unlikely to be a glitch in the reseeding, since when you change the order of attackers, even if the same sequence of random numbers is used, they will apply to different combats (where you have better odds than you did before).

It could still be a glitch in the odds reported by mouseover though. Check the combat log after a combat, and see if the odds reported there were markedly different. (It needs to be a combat where the attacker was not damaged by traps before attacking). If they are different, upload a save from before the combat to the main bug thread. (It doesn't have to be immediately before, as long as all the same conditions are set up - surround & destroy etc. - with respect to that particular attack).

On a related note (and I haven't got the latest SVN), in a recent city attack of mine, I noticed the following:

When an attacker withdraws or is forced to back down, the same (damaged) defender is picked for the next combat. I could alternate attacks with my weakest units, and still have 99+% odds. Archers and War Cats winning combats against Medieval/Renaissance cities with full-strength defenders still inside! The last defender was a full-strength Guard!

Stack Attack is bound to have all sorts of trouble with that, but if you know it's happening (and choose the attacking unit each time), it gives you a huge advantage.

This definitely brings up some interesting issues to look into. Soon as I'm done with the project I'm working on I'll get on to looking into the odd stuff happening in the attacker/defender evaluations and a host of other fairly important bug issues that have been reported.

 

[Minazuki3185]

Actually, yes. First make sure you have debug mode enabled so you can bring up the console in-game... IIRC you need to add the 'chipotle' line to your .ini file. If you don't know what I'm talking about, Google it; there are tons of instructions on how to do it.

Then, in your game, press the ~ key (shift + `). You should see a translucent text console appear in the middle of the screen, and it should say "Python" on the top line followed by some version/build info and then a prompt:

Python
2.4.1 (65, Mar 30 2005, 09:13:57) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)]
>

Make sure you see it says Python; if you hit just ` by mistake you'll get a similar-looking but very different console.

With this console you have programmatic access to most of the guts of the game... nearly all of them, in fact. There are a few things you can't do because the designers/modders didn't add Python hooks, but most stuff you can get at just fine. Most of the game-relevant stuff can be accessed through the pre-defined variable gc , which is a CyGlobalContext object. It has a bunch of methods for getting player, team, game, plot, etc. objects. e.g. typing 'print gc.getPlayer(0).getCity(0).getFood()' (without the single quotes, and hitting enter afterwards) will show you the amount of stored food in your capital (normally.) Running 'gc.getPlayer(0).getCity(0).changeFood(-50)' will, unsurprisingly, reduce the amount of food stored in your capital by 50. To figure out how to do other things, you can do things like 'print dir(gc)' or 'print dir(gc.getPlayer(0))' to get a list of the vars/functions in the gc object and the player object respectively; and you can also do 'print gc.getPlayer.__doc__' to get very brief help on the gc.getPlayer function. You can page up / page down to look at things; hitting ~ again will return you to the main screen. The best way to get started is just to look at the API documentation at http://civ4bug.sourceforge.net/PythonAPI/index.html . That's for vanilla BtS, not C2C, but it's still almost all accurate, just missing some of extra things C2C added.

To get back to the main point, in v27, you can change the Realistic Corporations option by entering:

gc.getGame().setOption(51, False)

(51 is the id # for the Realistic Corporations option.) To get a list of all the game options with their current setting and their id #, so you can change them, run the following (admittedly convoluted-looking if you don't know Python) command:

for i in range(gc.getNumGameOptionInfos()):  print str("%i %s     %s" % (i, (gc.getGame().isOption(i) and "T") or ".", gc.getGameOptionInfo(i).getText() ))

That will list all the options with # and a 'T' for true and '.' for false...

(Incidentally, you can make this kind of hacking easier by defining useful commands like this as functions in the "PyHelpers.py" file inside your Mods/Caveman2Cosmos/Assets/Python/ directory, and then running 'from PyHelpers import *' once each time you start C2C -- reloading doesn't clear it. Then you can run the command with your short function name, instead of having to re-type it each time. I have a bunch of utility commands and classes defined in there to help in inspecting / messing with things.)

I have tried to get the list of game options but I can't get it to work. I have put it in exatly as you typed it. Was I supposed to leave any of it out not change something? Please and thank you.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

That is a bit out of date now. With the merger of Platyping's WorldBuilder mod you can see and change most of the game options directly in World Builder mode in a game. Changing some game options may cause unexpected results and even CTDs as there is no way to exclude game options know to cause them from the list. No I don't know which ones cause problems.

 

[strategyonly]

That is a bit out of date now. With the merger of Platyping's WorldBuilder mod you can see and change most of the game options directly in World Builder mode in a game. Changing some game options may cause unexpected results and even CTDs as there is no way to exclude game options know to cause them from the list. No I don't know which ones cause problems.

Yeah if you dont know C++ or python DONT change or delete the main options

 

[platyping]

That is a bit out of date now. With the merger of Platyping's WorldBuilder mod you can see and change most of the game options directly in World Builder mode in a game. Changing some game options may cause unexpected results and even CTDs as there is no way to exclude game options know to cause them from the list. No I don't know which ones cause problems.

Because it is outdated WB

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

That is one of the problems with merging in your mods. Anyway the person who did it is not around at the moment to update it.

 

[platyping]

The good news is new versions are always 90% enhancements and 10% bug fixes.
And half of the bugs are stuff you will never realize anyway unless you read the codes.

It is better than mods which are bugged for years but never fixed

 

[Minazuki3185]

Holy Crap they changed the worldbuilder. More things to explore yay. This mod never stop getting better. Thanks everyone.

 

[God-Emperor]

Holy Crap they changed the worldbuilder. More things to explore yay. This mod never stop getting better. Thanks everyone.

Says a guy in a post immediately following a post made by the guy who made the mod with the worldbuilder changes that was added into C2C.