Caveman 2 Cosmos

[JosEPh_II]

Could you change the colour to blend in more with land? Brown, Dark Green etc.

Wouldn't that make them harder to see for those that use the grid?

I know the Black/Dark gray are rather "eye catching" but you get used to them the more you see them.

Probably what stands out is their "width", at least for me.

And if Toffer saved some memory usage can't we all adapt?

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I think I may have identified one of the big sources of income in later eras.

In normal BtS you can only build the improvement cottages which over a long tome upgrade. However in C2C you can build those upgrade improvements as soon as they become available greatly improving your income.

Either we need to remove this ability to build the upgraded improvement or we need to move the ability to build the improvement further along the tech tree long after the upgrade is available. IE the ability to build the upgrade should happen sometime after cottages would normally upgrade by themselves. I would suggest having the ability to build become available at the next one up.

It goes Cottage -> Hamlet -> Village -> Town -> Suburb. So I suggest that you can only build Hamlets when Cottage get the ability to upgrade to Hamlets and Villages.

 

[Niveras]

They are bold because I halved the resolution of terrain textures (less pixels in a texture means that 1 pixels of white looks bigger in-game) to improve general performance, I made them black as the bold white lines was very glaring.

Doubling the resolution of all terrain textures would increase VRAM usage by about 30MB and it would have a noticable impact on GPU load as well. In my test with Radeon HD 7900 I had considerably less map scrolling stuttering after halving their resolution.

Since we are in the process of adding many new terrains (oceanic) I felt this change was nescessary.

Well, apparently I was out and out wrong about it (par for the course when I try to be helpful about something), but now I'm confused as to why I don't see the grid?

I'm definitely running SVN: flat out deleted the old C2C directory and exported SVN to it, no other inputs to the C2C directory.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well, apparently I was out and out wrong about it (par for the course when I try to be helpful about something), but now I'm confused as to why I don't see the grid?

I'm definitely running SVN: flat out deleted the old C2C directory and exported SVN to it, no other inputs to the C2C directory.

You have to turn on an option to show the grids.

 

[Niveras]

Well, I'm dumber than I thought I was. I thought the thick grid was default even in vanilla Civ4, I see the difference now.

Wow, I really wish I could go back in time and stop myself from posting.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well, I'm dumber than I thought I was. I thought the thick grid was default even in vanilla Civ4, I see the difference now.

Wow, I really wish I could go back in time and stop myself from posting.

We all have time like that

 

[Toffer90]

Could you change the colour to blend in more with land? Brown, Dark Green etc.

I could, but then someone would suggest a different color and so on and so on.

An idea would be to have grids use vanilla bts terrain textures, so one could on the fly check the differnece between C2C terrain and vanilla terrain, by turning grids on and off. It would make the C2C mod a bit smaller as we don't have to include the grids textures, though, this would mean that playing with grids would be less performance friendly than without grids.

However I do think those who likes to play with grids would be upset for loosing the newer artstyle.

 

[Harrier]

I could, but then someone would suggest a different color and so on and so on.

Agree - we all have different viewpoints.

However I do think those who likes to play with grids would be upset for loosing the newer artstyle.

I do use grids and like the new artstyle. But the black IMO seems a bit to stark. Instead of a brown/green colour, as suggested in my original post - how about using a (dare I say it) a darker shade of grey.

What ever you decide - I will be happy with.

 

[Faustmouse]

I think I may have identified one of the big sources of income in later eras.

In normal BtS you can only build the improvement cottages which over a long tome upgrade. However in C2C you can build those upgrade improvements as soon as they become available greatly improving your income.

Either we need to remove this ability to build the upgraded improvement or we need to move the ability to build the improvement further along the tech tree long after the upgrade is available. IE the ability to build the upgrade should happen sometime after cottages would normally upgrade by themselves. I would suggest having the ability to build become available at the next one up.

It goes Cottage -> Hamlet -> Village -> Town -> Suburb. So I suggest that you can only build Hamlets when Cottage get the ability to upgrade to Hamlets and Villages.

I doubt that's a real problem. I never build ANY Cottage-line Improvement and I still have tons of gold. And the you get from them will almost always go 100% in , not

I think the real issue are the small +1 buildings in combination with the many many +1% buildings.

 

[Sparth]

I think the real issue are the small +1 buildings in combination with the many many +1% buildings.

Easy to fix
change all +1% buildings to +1 buildings
and increase unit /turn cost

 

[Faustmouse]

I think the problem was that while you can have +1 from a resource, you can't have +1 from a resource. It only works for yields, not for different commerce types.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

change all +1% buildings to +1 buildings

That is where we started. We changed all +1 to +1% to solve the over abundance of in the first place.

 

[Sparth]

That is where we started. We changed all +1 to +1% to solve the over abundance of in the first place.

Heh then I dont know how solve this.

 

[Arakhor]

"Clearly" the answer would be to take out many of the gold-boosting buildings in the first place.

 

[Sparth]

"Clearly" the answer would be to take out many of the gold-boosting buildings in the first place.

Yep but this is not C2C way

 

[Thunderbrd]

I believe the 'problem' lies more in civics and game pacing. Additionally, its more accute in C2C than in Vanilla due to so much 'gold' manipulation being in place over 'commerce' manipulation. Original CivIV didn't make the distinction except through the slider itself. Maybe we should never have taken this step. I know that's an unpopular thing to say... And I could be wrong but if there is a glut of commerce, its more easily accomodated by ramping up tech costs further. Of course, that's going to exacerbate other problems.

But ultimately, we are not matching income with expenses. However, the more moderate approach, imo, is to do what I've been doing gradually but cannot be done completely overnight, which is to increase unit costs, both build costs and support costs. Support costs can scale as the game goes along and if build production costs are increased, not only are we able to increase the value of an individual unit, but far more gold is needed as upgrade costs get much higher, so updating your military becomes a very spendy procedure.

Yes, buildings need review and many are perhaps too strong at the moment. There are some glaring examples, such as the Magic Shop, where the amount is really much stronger than perhaps it should be for its era. Perhaps just some streamlining and balancing could help.

As for cottages... they're already struggling to be anywhere near as beneficial as farms and mines still. Downgrading them in any way will just make them completely useless. This is likely WHY they've been tweaked the way they have, to match with the value inflation on other improvements.

As for building removing... why don't we start increasing the build costs of some buildings so that it becomes a bit more selective what gets built? Just like the units, the production costs of buildings have some extreme scaling issues throughout the game and need to be more closely aligned to the chart I posted in the modder's thread. Would certainly give a bit more value and strategy to each build selection.

Mind you, I've always been that player that felt that I was never settled if I hadn't built everything I'd want to build in the city, but I've come around to feeling like it's nice to be challenged to keep up with buildings AND keeping a military.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Why is this subject being brought up again? Seriously! Do Not make this Mod like AND or many others where having Gold in your treasury is a Big Sin!

Cottages Are weak and the measly 2 gold they start with is nothing in the long run.

The costs to upgrade are already exorbitant in most cases.

But the Biggest reason Not to mess with these costs is the AI can not survive against the player if you start Whacking at and like what has been done so many times since early RoM days. No one seems to learn this lesson that just gets repeated and repeated over and over.

We are just starting to get a more competent and competitive AI and now you all want to cut it's legs out from under it. Cause you the player have some surplus in your Treasury. Give me a break!

When the AI forces you to play at a lower difficulty level Then we can discuss cutting and . Has the AI forced you down a level or 2 yet? <crickets in the background> Hmmm yeah that's what I thought. :/

Please think about this before you start whacking.

JosEPh

 

[Arakhor]

Given that a city can easily be developing five to ten resources and each has one or more gold buildings attached, another thing would be to address resource spam.

As an aside, I literally cannot play C2C at any advanced stage (say, Classical onwards) without the constant use of city filters in order to be able to find anything in the lists.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Given that a city can easily be developing five to ten resources and each has one or more gold buildings attached, another thing would be to address resource spam.

If you have that many resources in your cities Fat X then perhaps the Map settings used are the problem. Or Game set up Options Like More Resources or More Rivers.

As an aside, I literally cannot play C2C at any advanced stage (say, Classical onwards) without the constant use of city filters in order to be able to find anything in the lists.

What you are really saying is that you can't scan thru 4 lines of building to find what you need or want? Sorting by Costs is the basic setup and I rarely if ever have to leave it. Sorry Arakhor but this comes across like a peevish CiV or BE player who has to have 1UPT or they just can't play type of response. Hopefully I've misunderstood you.

JosEPh

 

[Arakhor]

There's all the units and the national and world wonders besides the multiple lines of buildings too. I know that C2C does not do "the happy medium" in any fashion, but there is a wide field of difference between building spam and 1UPT stuff.