Caveman 2 Cosmos

[raxo2222]

For those of you with a twitter account, check this out: https://twitter.com/sarahmei/status/1078932447314595840

A VERY interesting thread regarding the downsides of technologies.

Twitter account isn't needed to read twitter.

Good, this gives another cause for research to propel itself, since some new techs can fix downsides of old techs.
Also this is kinda obvious that techs have some sort of downside somewhere.

In C2C universe it just explodes.
200 000 BC - beginning of Prehistoric era.
6000 BC - Ancient era
0 AD - Classical era
2000 AD - Information era
4000 AD (Earth time frame) - Cosmic era (Start of colonization of galaxies).
6000 AD (Earth time frame) - End of Transcendent era - Full complexity achieved, universe caused to exist, and now they aware, that they life in simulation.
This is what you get for time travel and faster than light travel.

 

[GeneralUrist]

So I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but either way I'm confused and this thread seems active enough. (mind you I am relatively new to both the mod and the forums, sorry if I seem clueless).

I'm trying to figure out why this Catamaran cannot see anything on the Sea tile to its left and the Tropical Ocean tile to its upper right. (both don't seem to have any features.) I'm playing with Size Matters uncut and Seek and Hide.

If I open up worldbuilder, it clearly shows animals in both of those plots: a "Solitary Marlin" and a "Team of Orcas" respectively.".

If I'm reading the Civilopedia right the Orca should have 2 Submarine visibility (1 from Tropical Ocean and 1 form being a sea animal) and 1 Size invisibility (3 from group(party), -2 from huge size), while the Marlin should have also 2 Submarine visibility (sea creature and Sea) anf 4 Size invisibility (group(solo)). Both of those seem to be matched by my Catamaran with Crow's Nest I, but despite that I can't see either of the two.

I figured I was seeing much fewer sea creatures than I should, and now that I've caught this situation it's clear there's something about the mechanics I don't know. Could anyone explain what's going on? The implication of this for my sea hunting efforts are driving me bonkers.

 

[tmv]

For those of you with a twitter account, check this out: https://twitter.com/sarahmei/status/1078932447314595840

A VERY interesting thread regarding the downsides of technologies.

I'm not entirely sure that this is helpful - as was pointed out during the thread, this could be applied to any kind of action. There is a reason that we usually don't think of these things, and that is that we need to get things done. The second reason is the fact that idleness is a choice as well, and we could end up incapacitated by our worries if we follow that line of thinking to the end.

Some people think that life is a game, and while they might be right, life certainly isn't turn-based (at least with respect to human senses). Thinking is not a free action, and our entire life consists of making choices. I guess you could argue that the "sum" of our choices is what our life is all about. Every choice having downsides is a very important part of that. In that sense, the ability to weigh our choices (good vs. bad) is exactly the kind of fitness Darwin spoke about, at least for any life form that really depends on reasoning (and while humanity is not the only life form in that category, as was once thought, there doesn't seem to be a life form more dependent on reasoning than we are).

This doesn't mean that we shoudln't remind ourselves of certain facts every once in a while, but we shouldn't overdo it.

I never worry about action, but only inaction. (Winston Churchill)

 

[Thunderbrd]

So I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but either way I'm confused and this thread seems active enough. (mind you I am relatively new to both the mod and the forums, sorry if I seem clueless).

I'm trying to figure out why this Catamaran cannot see anything on the Sea tile to its left and the Tropical Ocean tile to its upper right. (both don't seem to have any features.) I'm playing with Size Matters uncut and Seek and Hide.
View attachment 513535
If I open up worldbuilder, it clearly shows animals in both of those plots: a "Solitary Marlin" and a "Team of Orcas" respectively.".
View attachment 513536
If I'm reading the Civilopedia right the Orca should have 2 Submarine visibility (1 from Tropical Ocean and 1 form being a sea animal) and 1 Size invisibility (3 from group(party), -2 from huge size), while the Marlin should have also 2 Submarine visibility (sea creature and Sea) anf 4 Size invisibility (group(solo)). Both of those seem to be matched by my Catamaran with Crow's Nest I, but despite that I can't see either of the two.

I figured I was seeing much fewer sea creatures than I should, and now that I've caught this situation it's clear there's something about the mechanics I don't know. Could anyone explain what's going on? The implication of this for my sea hunting efforts are driving me bonkers.

Take a look at the promos on the animals. If they have even 1 pt submerged invisibility from a buildup or other promotion they might have earned, it would be clear why you aren't seeing them. There ARE also some widgets in the system that I could never track down which is why the map often re-calculates all visibilities on tiles every round. Somehow, during a round, they often adjust for reasons I cannot find in the code - I made the system but I had to build it into an environment where there's something taking place somewhere I can't explain that causes this.

 

[GeneralUrist]

Take a look at the promos on the animals. If they have even 1 pt submerged invisibility from a buildup or other promotion they might have earned, it would be clear why you aren't seeing them. There ARE also some widgets in the system that I could never track down which is why the map often re-calculates all visibilities on tiles every round. Somehow, during a round, they often adjust for reasons I cannot find in the code - I made the system but I had to build it into an environment where there's something taking place somewhere I can't explain that causes this.

ARE there even any build ups or promotions (available to animals) that boost submergence invisibility? In any case, opening those two animals up in WB doesn't seem to show any promotions or build up.

I did a little more digging, and now I am REALLY stumped. I used WB to give the catamaran Spot and Crow's Nest III, along with sentry III, and hit end turn. I could see the surrounding animals just fine. I deleted those promotions and kept advancing turns gradually until the Catamaran only had Crow's Nest I like it originally had, and it could still see the animals if they were on tiles next to it. After that I reloaded the original save, ended the turn, moved the catamaran next to the Orca's new position (using WB to find it, side note )... and I still could NOT see any sea animals. And there weren't any reefs or such they could be hiding in.

At this point I worked backwards, giving the Catamaran Sentry III only. I could see nothing. still. I added promotions and it was when I added Crow's Nest III that I started seeing anything reliable again. I then again dropped the Catamaran down to just crow's nest I, and could again still see everything. Just to cover myself I deleted the last crow's nest promotion and I lost the ability to see the animals, so at least that works...

...What and when triggers visibility recalculation? Is it possible that has anything to do with it? This is really weird, and presumably this sort of visibility hysteresis is not intended?

I'm on version 38.5 BTW, I forgot to mention.

 

[Thunderbrd]

...What and when triggers visibility recalculation? Is it possible that has anything to do with it? This is really weird, and presumably this sort of visibility hysteresis is not intended?

I'm on version 38.5 BTW, I forgot to mention.

I'm not sure if some corrections were made to this since 38.5. I don't think so. Any assignment of a promotion or loss of one or move to a new space should recalculate the visibility wherever it applies. Your save on this might be worth using as a test subject to try to figure out in the code how it's failing to do so reliably, which may also be the reason that the game needs to recalc all visibilities every round to keep things straight in this system.

 

[GeneralUrist]

I'm not sure if some corrections were made to this since 38.5. I don't think so. Any assignment of a promotion or loss of one or move to a new space should recalculate the visibility wherever it applies. Your save on this might be worth using as a test subject to try to figure out in the code how it's failing to do so reliably, which may also be the reason that the game needs to recalc all visibilities every round to keep things straight in this system.

Huh. Well, if it'll be of any help, I've attached the save file to this post. Good luck with it, I hope the bug is reproducible. And just in case it wasn't clear, I'm not using the SVN, just 38.5 as downloaded.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Huh. Well, if it'll be of any help, I've attached the save file to this post. Good luck with it, I hope the bug is reproducible. And just in case it wasn't clear, I'm not using the SVN, just 38.5 as downloaded.

Thank you.

 

[Agent 009]

There are a few bugs, one of them quite severe, that came up regarding the graphical display of the Great Wall due to some ways the graphic delivery was changed for optimal performance and the master programmer that made those changes is no longer working on the mod so isn't here to help us to debug these issues so the only resolution for us was to disable it completely. My apologies. It is disabled in the DLL code.

Thanks for the info... kind of sucks... but it is what it is.

I do have another question though. I am in the classical era now and I have been making a few visual changes to make my cities more appealing to me, but I am having a difficult time figuring out how to hide certain buildings from being displayed in my cities. Specifically, I would like to disable the visibility of all herds showing up in my cities. I have set the visibility priority in the zanimals building info xml file to 0, but it hasn't had any effect. Is there a different value I should use? Or a different file or piece of code that needs to be altered in order to make this happen?

Any help would be appreciated as most of my cities have nearly all the herds and they are taking up too much space it looks awful.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Thanks for the info... kind of sucks... but it is what it is.

I do have another question though. I am in the classical era now and I have been making a few visual changes to make my cities more appealing to me, but I am having a difficult time figuring out how to hide certain buildings from being displayed in my cities. Specifically, I would like to disable the visibility of all herds showing up in my cities. I have set the visibility priority in the zanimals building info xml file to 0, but it hasn't had any effect. Is there a different value I should use? Or a different file or piece of code that needs to be altered in order to make this happen?

Any help would be appreciated as most of my cities have nearly all the herds and they are taking up too much space it looks awful.

@strategyonly knows something about how to set this. I can't remember the tag or how to set it. @raxo2222 I think may also be able to answer you.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Thanks for the info... kind of sucks... but it is what it is.

I do have another question though. I am in the classical era now and I have been making a few visual changes to make my cities more appealing to me, but I am having a difficult time figuring out how to hide certain buildings from being displayed in my cities. Specifically, I would like to disable the visibility of all herds showing up in my cities. I have set the visibility priority in the zanimals building info xml file to 0, but it hasn't had any effect. Is there a different value I should use? Or a different file or piece of code that needs to be altered in order to make this happen?

Any help would be appreciated as most of my cities have nearly all the herds and they are taking up too much space it looks awful.

Have you tried changing the settings in A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines.xml file. See line 273 thru 282. Line 273 starts the comment section on how to change the city view thru a set of 4 numbers.

Look for this:

<!-- Use the following to determine what building art is displayed on cities.
It is a bitmask of flags which may be added together:
 1 = Wonders
 2 = City defences
 128 = Other
We default to all of them (1+2+128 = 131)
-->
  <DefineName>SHOW_BUILDINGS_LEVEL</DefineName>
  <iDefineIntVal>131</iDefineIntVal>
 </Define>

 

[strategyonly]

Have you tried changing the settings in A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines.xml file. See line 273 thru 282. Line 273 starts the comment section on how to change the city view thru a set of 4 numbers.

Look for this:

<!-- Use the following to determine what building art is displayed on cities.
It is a bitmask of flags which may be added together:
 1 = Wonders
 2 = City defences
 128 = Other
We default to all of them (1+2+128 = 131)
-->
  <DefineName>SHOW_BUILDINGS_LEVEL</DefineName>
  <iDefineIntVal>131</iDefineIntVal>
 </Define>

exactly correct . . .

 

[Yudishtira]

1 + 2 turns on bits 0 and 1. 128 turns on bit 7, and that displays everything.

Seems like no-one knows what bits 2-6 do. You will have to experiment with these values: 63 (turns off bits 6 & 7, with the rest on), 95 (5 and 7 off), 111 (4 and 7 off), 119 (3 and 7 off), 123 (2 and 7 off). One of those will turn off herds (I guess).

ETA: It's possible that 128 (bit 7) itself dictates the displaying of herds. In that case, the value you need is 127 (all bits on except 7).

 

[Agent 009]

Have you tried changing the settings in A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines.xml file. See line 273 thru 282. Line 273 starts the comment section on how to change the city view thru a set of 4 numbers.

Look for this:

<!-- Use the following to determine what building art is displayed on cities.
It is a bitmask of flags which may be added together:
 1 = Wonders
 2 = City defences
 128 = Other
We default to all of them (1+2+128 = 131)
-->
  <DefineName>SHOW_BUILDINGS_LEVEL</DefineName>
  <iDefineIntVal>131</iDefineIntVal>
 </Define>

1 + 2 turns on bits 0 and 1. 128 turns on bit 7, and that displays everything.

Seems like no-one knows what bits 2-6 do. You will have to experiment with these values: 63 (turns off bits 6 & 7, with the rest on), 95 (5 and 7 off), 111 (4 and 7 off), 119 (3 and 7 off), 123 (2 and 7 off). One of those will turn off herds (I guess).

ETA: It's possible that 128 (bit 7) itself dictates the displaying of herds. In that case, the value you need is 127 (all bits on except 7).

I tried editing this file with these different values, and although it had an effect, it was unable to only remove the herds. I would also lose the fisherman huts (ancient looking harbors) and/or wonders, defenses, other buildings along with the herds.

I had to resort to editing the zanimalsbuilding file and removing the art define tags instead.

Thanks for your help nevertheless.

EDIT: I also discovered that it wasn't just herds, but the camps as well. I had to remove the art define tags in the regular buildings file as well in order to remove them from cities.

EDIT 2: Seems like there are others... I found a Zebra Camp that wasn't being removed... yet I did in fact remove the art define tag... so IDK what else I am missing.

I also decided to create a new map. I'll share it once I am satisfied with it. It needs a few more tweaks... it's overpowered imho... but I designed it to be used just for the fun of building it up.

Anyone who wants to try it is free to do so.

EDIT 3: Ok I have uploaded both my World Builder Save which can be played as a scenario, (choose to play as Greece) and the the actual save file starting in 50000 BC.

Either one is good, although for some unknown reason, choosing to use the WB save as a scenario will make all civs know each other and although I have tried to edit another file to remove contact, it didn't work upon loading it.

The map I have created is not 100% my creation. I used the C2C Earth to generate a Giant map, and then simply added an island in the middle of the map. The Island is meant to be my idea of the Island of Atlantis, which has room for 25 Metropolises on it spaced out by 7 tiles in each direction starting with the central capital. Each spot a city is meant to be placed is indicated by a cave feature.

Anyone who wishes to try out the map is certainly not bound by this. Feel free to build it in any way you wish.

Happy New Year.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I tried editing this file with these different values, and although it had an effect, it was unable to only remove the herds. I would also lose the fisherman huts (ancient looking harbors) and/or wonders, defenses, other buildings along with the herds.

I had to resort to editing the zanimalsbuilding file and removing the art define tags instead.

Thanks for your help nevertheless.

EDIT: I also discovered that it wasn't just herds, but the camps as well. I had to remove the art define tags in the regular buildings file as well in order to remove them from cities.

So have you broken the Mod yet? Getting CTDs? Removing art define tags will probably bite you in the long run. And all this over How a city looks? Hmmm...………..

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I tried editing this file with these different values, and although it had an effect, it was unable to only remove the herds. I would also lose the fisherman huts (ancient looking harbors) and/or wonders, defenses, other buildings along with the herds.

I had to resort to editing the zanimalsbuilding file and removing the art define tags instead.

Thanks for your help nevertheless.

EDIT: I also discovered that it wasn't just herds, but the camps as well. I had to remove the art define tags in the regular buildings file as well in order to remove them from cities.

So have you broken the Mod yet? Getting CTDs? Removing art define tags will probably bite you in the long run. And all this over How a city looks? Hmmm...………..

If you remove an art define for a building you can build with it will cause a CTD whenever any city tries to build it. Otherwise it should not cause a problem.
You could have changed the art defines for the building instead by changing the NIF line with the art definition from

            <NIF>Art/....nif</NIF>

to

            <NIF/>

We use that for various buildings already.

 

[strategyonly]

If you remove an art define for a building you can build with it will cause a CTD whenever any city tries to build it. Otherwise it should not cause a problem.
You could have changed the art defines for the building instead by changing the NIF line with the art definition from

            <NIF>Art/....nif</NIF>

to

            <NIF/>

We use that for various buildings already.

and alot easier .. .

 

[Agent 009]

If you remove an art define for a building you can build with it will cause a CTD whenever any city tries to build it. Otherwise it should not cause a problem.
You could have changed the art defines for the building instead by changing the NIF line with the art definition from

            <NIF>Art/....nif</NIF>

to

            <NIF/>

We use that for various buildings already.

Ok np... I have saved the file as a backup so I can simply just replace it if I do get any CTD's... I didn't realize it would do that... I haven't had any issues yet.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It is because the exe does a lot of the display and it expects a valid button to display in the city bar. The button is defined in the art define and if there isn't one (or it isn't exactly 64x64 pixels) the exe can't handle it and crashes.

 

[Agent 009]

It is because the exe does a lot of the display and it expects a valid button to display in the city bar. The button is defined in the art define and if there isn't one (or it isn't exactly 64x64 pixels) the exe can't handle it and crashes.

I noticed the button was blank when I had the ability to build a herd in a city. Of course they are only buildable with an animale AFAIK. In any case, I'll just have to get around to removing the nif tags instead... that is the easier thing. Just gotta find them all. lol