Caveman 2 Cosmos

[billw2015]

Did not know that it would do this automatically. Was under the impression as a modder you had to use Devsetup and then MakeFinalRelease. Either way works for me as for my Testing I want the Final Release anyway.

Yeah it was like that to start with, but now when you run the game it will automatically build the DLL in the same config you last used (i.e. if you ran MakeDLLFinalRelease.bat then it will always update that same config from then on).
I'm working on an up to date developer guide here. It's on the wiki so other people can update it, hopefully we can transfer existing information here so it can be maintained by the team not just whoever happened to start the original thread.

 

[colonelflag]

Hi all,

Do you know which file(s) i need to change to reduce the minimum city build distance from another city from 4 ->3 ??

Cheers
Colonelflag

 

[raxo2222]

Hi all,

Do you know which file(s) i need to change to reduce the minimum city build distance from another city from 4 ->3 ??

Cheers
Colonelflag

Minimum city build distance is set at 2 currently.
Maybe you had old version of mod, or you changed it yourself long ago?
Not sure if this is one in global defines.

<Define>
        <DefineName>MIN_CITY_RANGE</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>2</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>

 

[colonelflag]

Minimum city build distance is set at 2 currently.
Maybe you had old version of mod, or you changed it yourself long ago?
Not sure if this is one in global defines.

<Define>
        <DefineName>MIN_CITY_RANGE</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>2</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>

Cool thanks raxo2222

 

[Yudishtira]

We are pre-v40 so versions should be v39.???, shouldn't they?

 

[billw2015]

No, we are on v40 in SVN, they are pre-releases.

 

[Thunderbrd]

OK, finally getting the chance to playtest a bit. Observations:

1)The beginning of the game has massively skewed the research vs production progress, and it's very painful to experience. Finally starting a new game, first one in some months so I'm just seeing what some others have been saying and how strong the skewing is. Playing on Long gamespeed, Emperor. 11 rounds to research Language and just 3 rounds to build the Alpha Male. This isn't cool. What used to be about 10 research if you had an average start is now:

Ugh. This really forces language to be the only valid first choice. All three paths should be equally strategically valid with just differing pros and cons or we have failed the goal of making decisions interesting and challenging right out the gate. With this sort of research deficit, there's no debate - you MUST unlock better civics immediately or you will fall behind. Additionally, we both found we were deleting initial units trained to keep from going broke because the cities had nothing else to do for so long during the researching of the first few techs AND we got a LOT of research out of goody huts! And that's TAKING the optimal routes to the civics.

I don't mind the direction we went with this but I think we went way too far with it. You should hear the disgust in my wife's voice on that matter... I'm copping it tonight.

There may be a solution that doesn't involve changing the goal of the civics design though. I might have to reconsider the costing ramp on the first techs - that could possibly get the balance back to something that works for play.

2)I'm not able to see what I'm researching in the player list... I'm finding that a little jarring since that's where I look to create a relationship in my mind between the term above and the icon it represents, and it just feels like I'm missing some critical info. It also helps me see at a glance who's researching exactly what I am.

3)I will be looking into this but I have no idea why I'm getting messages related to Heart of War option combat effects about knockback, repel, etc... Not sure what would've changed that enabled those messages, particularly since the unit values that should trigger those are not showing on the units involved in those combats. These are where the messages are talking about how the unit staunchly stood its ground etc...

4)A little disturbing to see Harems don't bring ANY Unhealth or at least Disease. I find that a little morally offbase, even if it is somewhat understandable from the perspective of the era.

5)I could be wrong but it seems like some tech costs were not recost despite having moved positions. Did we only recost the units and buildings or was there some additional consideration beyond X grid that went into the recosting of the techs themselves?

Just bringing up what I'm seeing and perhaps some of it is just personal opinion.

6) Good job on stabilizing MP y'all! So far so good to some 30 or so turns in. No Rev, No Events as is the usual best way to avoid OOS errors but the ones we've been struggling with so far are not present now it appears.

 

[raxo2222]

1. @JosEPh_II what do you think about lowering tech costs in first four columns?
5 -> 3
6 -> 4
7 -> 5
8 -> 7
@Thunderbrd you lowered iAsset of some techs
I fixed your mistakes now.

2. and 3. sounds like bugs. Upload save.
For second one @Toffer90 could add back player's tech icon on scoreboard (bottom right corner).
For third one sounds like someone accidentally broke Heart of War game option - @billw2015 or @alberts2 could look at it.

4. @KaTiON_PT can adjust it.

5. Techs are costed properly - I ensured that.
Maybe you were playing with Complex Traits and or TD/WFL?
First one can reduce/increase tech costs, and TD or WFL reduces amount of turns to research, if you know techs prereqs or if tech was researched by someone.

 

[KaTiON_PT]

Oh no! Sorry for that Thunderbrd, I will try to fix those issues asap.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Playing on Long gamespeed, Emperor. 11 rounds to research Language and just 3 rounds to build the Alpha Male. This isn't cool.

Why is it not cool? Who says the Tech research rate Must Match building production rate? To make it do so Match each other is the Not Cool thing. And Very unrealistic or even logical in game play sense.

I know you've only done 1 new start. You really need to do more before you start reacting and changing things, imho. And how quickly we've forgotten that the penalties from the Default starting Civics in the past were similar to what they are now.

The initial Civic giving Techs Should be a Primary focus early game. Not running around collecting Hordes of animals and overloading the usage of the myth and hunting rewards to the exclusion of getting better Civics.

All 3 branches Are still Viable. And it is Not mandatory to get languages 1st. But you will find thru playing thru the Preh era repeatedly that you will most likely research the 3 1st column Techs 1st anyway.

So now with your changes to the 1st 4 X column costs the base start is changed again. Perhaps Prematurely done.

1. @JosEPh_II what do you think about lowering tech costs in first four columns?
5 -> 3
6 -> 4
7 -> 5
8 -> 7

What should I think? Isn't it already done now?

@Team,
We Say we want a Challenging game not made for the masses. But in reality....not so much. If it doesn't play the way I Like it (am used to), well I'll just go change the base play to make it my way again is the rule here now just sayin'. 1 play thru does not make a solid base to make changes from, ever. As was noted initially but then changes were made anyway. Was this the correct thing to do?

 

[biggboy]

Ok hoping for a suggestion or two.... I loaded C2C onto my wife's new laptop, (and have deleted/reloaded) because of an odd bug. BTS plays fine, but when C2C is loaded, some mouse clicks do not work, for example she has to use the arrow keys to go to advanced and load a mod, and she cannot save... Any help is most appreciated.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Ok hoping for a suggestion or two.... I loaded C2C onto my wife's new laptop, (and have deleted/reloaded) because of an odd bug. BTS plays fine, but when C2C is loaded, some mouse clicks do not work, for example she has to use the arrow keys to go to advanced and load a mod, and she cannot save... Any help is most appreciated.

Are you suing the Steam version of BtS? And this question should really be in the Bug Thread, just an FYI.

 

[biggboy]

No, from the CD.

 

[biggboy]

Sorry if this was in the wrong place, looking for the bug thread...

 

[Yudishtira]

Sorry if this was in the wrong place, looking for the bug thread...

At the top of the page there are subforums. One is "Bugs and Crashes". It's in there.

 

[Thunderbrd]

1. @JosEPh_II what do you think about lowering tech costs in first four columns?
5 -> 3
6 -> 4
7 -> 5
8 -> 7
@Thunderbrd you lowered iAsset of some techs
I fixed your mistakes now.

2. and 3. sounds like bugs. Upload save.
For second one @Toffer90 could add back player's tech icon on scoreboard (bottom right corner).
For third one sounds like someone accidentally broke Heart of War game option - @billw2015 or @alberts2 could look at it.

4. @KaTiON_PT can adjust it.

5. Techs are costed properly - I ensured that.
Maybe you were playing with Complex Traits and or TD/WFL?
First one can reduce/increase tech costs, and TD or WFL reduces amount of turns to research, if you know techs prereqs or if tech was researched by someone.

Thanks for correcting the assets - that makes sense now that I found a few cost adjustments didn't go quite as planned and I wondered what went wrong. Don't mod right before bed!
Looking at the costs I might have just gotten the wrong impression on one - no traits to throw any off yet, no td/wfl for humans so that wasn't a factor, but a quick review on a single player game showed they were all set right.

@JosEPh_II: Sorry we have a disagreement on a fundamental design philosophy that we shouldn't be having cities sitting idle at the beginning of the game. Not sure why you would want that.

 

[billw2015]

@JosEPh_II: Sorry we have a disagreement on a fundamental design philosophy that we shouldn't be having cities sitting idle at the beginning of the game. Not sure why you would want that.

As long as player has other things to do, why not?

 

[Thunderbrd]

As long as player has other things to do, why not?

I don't see how building 15 brutes or stonethrowers because you have nothing else to build during that time is in any way interesting or challenging. As you point out in your comment, it is the decided lack of decisionmaking taking place that makes it flawed. The player has 'things to do' by exploring with those units, but that's already the general content of the entire first half of this era - no reason to extend that further with even more hopeless units. There is no decisionmaking to be had here other than, hmm, do I go broke and waste production on units you'll probably want to delete later anyhow or just set my people to doing nothing? It is putting far too much emphasis on time where there is no progression or even a sense thereof and it weights success far too strongly out the gate to those lucky enough to get a few techs or some research from goody huts. You're spending far too much % of the rounds overall spent in the age on the first columns of research as if they are a whole era unto themselves with very little happening.

I'm not the first to complain about it - I just didn't realize it was so bad right at the game opening. I mean, I fully understand the intention of it is to make an adjustment that aggravates longer game players into choosing quicker gamespeeds and it's kinda clever in the underhanded way this was planned, but there's really not a lot of difference for a faster gamespeed in this update. This is a subtle change that should improve the experience of play. Pretty simple. And it doesn't ask for any civics changes to be made nor does it disrupt the intent of having them ramp up as potently as they do... it just makes room for them to do so without making the game suck in the first rounds.

 

[KaTiON_PT]

@Thunderbrd any idea on what buildings I could move to Language to make it more fun?

 

[billw2015]

I don't see how building 15 brutes or stonethrowers because you have nothing else to build during that time is in any way interesting or challenging.

You made a general claim about the philosophy of having cities idle at the start of the game to which I responded generally that as long as they have something to do then why not. You are rebutting here with specifics about problems with the current implementation. You can take it as read that I agree that if the current implementation of the surrounding game play doesn't support having idle cities then I don't think it is a good idea. I think it is an *interesting* idea generally, given the prerequisite that the rest of early gameplay can support making it interesting. Primarily just because it adds a unique progress point for the player. Instead of just wandering band of homosapiens > city, you can go homosapiens > settled farmers > city, or something analogous.
However I'm not going to go much into thinking about it, probably adding the "wandering era" or whatever will fulfill this role in a more interesting manner.