Caveman 2 Cosmos

[Maltazard]

1) Do we really want 30+ rounds to a technology vs 1 to a unit or 3 to a building? I'm spending so much time in idle this is crazy!!! Shouldn't it be nearly a whole building per tech research time

Isn't tech time entirely dependent on game speed? On normal you're hard pressed to keep up with producing the latest buildings already by classical era. Catch up for newly founded cities takes forever. Hammers and food were nerfed already after all.

 

[raxo2222]

Isn't tech time entirely dependent on game speed? On normal you're hard pressed to keep up with producing the latest buildings already by classical era. Catch up for newly founded cities takes forever. Hammers and food were nerfed already after all.

Yeah, tech cost was balanced for AI tech leader, not for average player performance.

I reduced global tech cost a bit, and now most advanced AI on Immortal with TD/WFL now reaches Ancient era at bit less than 10% of game.

 

[Toffer90]

Isn't tech time entirely dependent on game speed?

So is building/unit cost, so I understand TB's question to be:
"My cities finish all they need to to build in early game (prehistoric) more often than I would expect them to, and are thus set to produce idle or beaker/gold more often than what might be good balance for early game."
I tend to agree, buildings, at least some of them, could be a bit more costly in early game than what they are, units too possibly.
Haven't played the mod much lately so I can't provide specific suggestions.

 

[Somebody613]

So is building/unit cost, so I understand TB's question to be:
"My cities finish all they need to to build in early game (prehistoric) more often than I would expect them to, and are thus set to produce idle or beaker/gold more often than what might be good balance for early game."
I tend to agree, buildings, at least some of them, could be a bit more costly in early game than what they are, units too possibly.
Haven't played the mod much lately so I can't provide specific suggestions.

The game is balanced very differently for MAX ands MIN speeds, though (and I always play only MAX or MIN, never MID).
On MIN (Ultrafast), the balance is so off, that you rather quickly get to the point of idle production.
On MAX (Eternity), the balance is off in the opposite direction, thus your city is stuck building stuff forever, even with extensive hunting and some natural wonders around.
And I'm not sure what is MORE annoying, really.

 

[Thunderbrd]

So far its looking like the first issue is a bug on my end, perhaps from not having a user settings folder yet. And the 2nd issue still needs some investigating but doesn't seem to be intentional so far as anyone is aware.

 

[cobbaut]

On MAX (Eternity), the balance is off in the opposite direction, thus your city is stuck building stuff forever, even with extensive hunting and some natural wonders around.

I like being forced to carefully choose what to build. So I definitely prefer not being able to build everything, over cities sitting idle.

 

[Maltazard]

Idle is the best time to build some units, gold or culture though.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Idle is the best time to build some units, gold or culture though.

Yeah, my issue was discovered to be that at game start, or rather on the initiation of my first city, the palace didn't process in its benefits for some reason. This gave me some 90% idle time waiting for the initial techs to come through without being able to use any commerce generating processes and making it more than possible to overwhelm my unit upkeep costs if I didn't literally go on actual 'idle' with that city as I waited to tech up.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@JosEPh_II

1. Thunderbrd — Today at 10:23 PM
   @dev Team Well, I did a quick playtest...
2. [10:23 PM]
   A few things
3. [10:25 PM]
   1) Do we really want 30+ rounds to a technology vs 1 to a unit or 3 to a building? I'm spending so much time in idle this is crazy!!! Shouldn't it be nearly a whole building per tech research time?
4. [10:25 PM]
   2) I popped a Thief goody hut and rather than just one, some many multitudes of them attacked my unit... was this a bug or is this now by design?
5. [10:26 PM]
   Didn't really see anything else too standout.
6. [10:26 PM]
   But those are worthy of discussion before release

@MattCA ,
1. what Game speed did you choose to play?
2A.Seems you picked a slow Game speed if it takes you 30 turns for a Tech in Preh Era. For testing never pick any GS that is more than Marathon Game speed.
2B.Toffer's predilection for 20,000 turns on Eternity is for game that will NEVER finish. They are for playing with early units for long periods of game play to see how much you can promote them up. It is IMHPO unbalanced so badly that suggesting that New Players play on Snail and slower GS is a disservice to our new and some seasoned players.
2C. Once you do get to the later stage of Preh Era the Teching becomes faster as it should. You will still lag behind the AI if playing on a Difficulty higher than Prince. Even up thru the Med Era you will be behind. But by Ren if you have not caught up (without using Helper Options like Tech Diffusion) you should be close to being on par.
3. Yes an "evil" goody hut can and will pop several to multiple barbs depending on Difficulty level played. Barbs can be mean at game start, lol. But a Thief Goody Hut??? Hmmm... that means you are using many of T-brd's Combat Mods.
so in that regards I'll have to differ to T-brd. His Options tend to be ummm... overly complex.... again imhpo.
How far did you go into your test game?

 

[raxo2222]

@MattCA ,
1. what Game speed did you choose to play?
2A.Seems you picked a slow Game speed if it takes you 30 turns for a Tech in Preh Era. For testing never pick any GS that is more than Marathon Game speed.
2B.Toffer's predilection for 20,000 turns on Eternity is for game that will NEVER finish. They are for playing with early units for long periods of game play to see how much you can promote them up. It is IMHPO unbalanced so badly that suggesting that New Players play on Snail and slower GS is a disservice to our new and some seasoned players.
2C. Once you do get to the later stage of Preh Era the Teching becomes faster as it should. You will still lag behind the AI if playing on a Difficulty higher than Prince. Even up thru the Med Era you will be behind. But by Ren if you have not caught up (without using Helper Options like Tech Diffusion) you should be close to being on par.

1. He was playing on Long.
2: It was bug on Thunderbrds side - that is somehow palace failed to give commerce, when debug DLL was used.
Toffer will check why debug DLL is wonky.

He didn't notice, that debug DLL wasn't working properly.
Otherwise game works correctly - Assert, Release, FinalRelease DLL works as should.

 

[cobbaut]

I updated SVN from 2022-03-09 to 2022-04-03.
I have no idea what the first three messages mean?

 

[raxo2222]

I updated SVN from 2022-03-09 to 2022-04-03.
I have no idea what the first three messages mean?

View attachment 623908

This happens if you press some shortcut - it should happen only if you have debug mode enabled.

 

[cobbaut]

This happens if you press some shortcut - it should happen only if you have debug mode enabled.

I don't know how to enable debug mode. It happened when recalculating after the SVN update (I pressed Ctrl-Shift-T). Anyway, nothing seems to be missing or added to my civ, so no worries.

 

[raxo2222]

I don't know how to enable debug mode. It happened when recalculating after the SVN update (I pressed Ctrl-Shift-T). Anyway, nothing seems to be missing or added to my civ, so no worries.

Probably it tried to refresh unit graphics or something on recalc.

 

[Thunderbrd]

3. Yes an "evil" goody hut can and will pop several to multiple barbs depending on Difficulty level played. Barbs can be mean at game start, lol. But a Thief Goody Hut??? Hmmm... that means you are using many of T-brd's Combat Mods.
so in that regards I'll have to differ to T-brd. His Options tend to be ummm... overly complex.... again imhpo.

This was my test game - he was just posting a discussion from discord for your benefit. Thief goody hut results were initially setup and working to only pop one thief and since I know that because I made that possible result, I was wondering what changed to have it pop as many as a normal barbarian one would because that change introduced an unintended bug.

To clarify - the time to tech was flawed thanks to the debug dll being flawed which somehow caused the palace to not be processed in when I placed the first city.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@Thunderbrd , Thanks for the clarification.

EDIT: by the way is v42 about ready?

 

[Toffer90]

EDIT: by the way is v42 about ready?

It's very close, last SVN revision contained some crucial fixes, let's see how they pan out for 3-4 days before releasing if all is good.

 

[CanIGetA]

It's very close, last SVN revision contained some crucial fixes, let's see how they pan out for 3-4 days before releasing if all is good.

...and then download it, play up to the point it inevitably crashes due to reaching some turn or pop limit or something, then hit up the SVN for the hotfix.

 

[jshetley]

It's very close, last SVN revision contained some crucial fixes, let's see how they pan out for 3-4 days before releasing if all is good.

Nice. It'll once again be time to start a new game to check out all the changes. I have this one up into medieval on a gigantic map, the highest graphic settings, and a 7000k save game file size with NO MAFs or even really any slowdowns yet. Great job guys with this mod.

 

[Divizor]

Good afternoon. Every turn this message appears