Caveman2Cosmos Let's Play - AstralPhaser/12padams

wolfensoul9 "assimilates" 12padams, wolfensoul9 turns 12padams into a similar being. :p

And you are a kibitzer wolf but since padams "likes" it, then it's O.K. :mischief:
gee whiz and I thought I was "slow". :rolleyes:

My style of humor is....slighty different than most. :D

JosEPh ;)

Ah, Joseph, I would have understood it that way, except for the fact that you put me on the left, and him on the right.

I would've understood what you meant if you had put us in the opposite spots. And well, if "kibitzer" and "advice-giver" are synonomous, then I am okay.

Edit: Hey...wait a minute...were you implying that if it wasn't for me, 12padams would be happily having fun with the mod, and now, my "robotic" nature at playing it has spread to him, and ruined him? Seems like it...
 
@12padams

1. I think you have another lobster resource you could get with a fishing boat. This surplus resource could be used to help you get another resource in trade.

2. You pronounced "Sentry" just fine, its "Rogue" you have trouble pronouncing. :p

3. You should also get some more dogs in the cities that have no dogs yet.

4. You passed right by a Bison when your Arctic Combat Hunter was going north. You could have killed it easy. Keep an eye out for the little barbarian flags on the animals to see them. Also as wolf said there are TONS of bears to the south near the Egyptians just waiting to be killed. More kills mean more XP for you unit.
 
Edit: Hey...wait a minute...were you implying that if it wasn't for me, 12padams would be happily having fun with the mod, and now, my "robotic" nature at playing it has spread to him, and ruined him? Seems like it...
Lol, you have made playing this mod more fun to me because although I thought I understood this game when I started I really didn't understand it well. Once you understand a game and its actions/reactions then it's more fun to play :)

Just a few questions btw about trading...

When you have two of a resource that gives +1 health in your cities does that mean its effects are doubled? E.g. Double health? If not then trading a resource for a resource you have multiple of is a great idea in my oppinion.

Just a question... Do you like the idea of more horse resources making horse units faster to build? I believe something like that should be implemented to make it useful to have multiple of a certain resource and add more strategy options into the game.

Anyway thanks for all your advice everyone I am compiling it into an episode plan now ready to record an episode in 2 hours which will be uploaded in 30 hours.

Oh and koshing... The save file was not attached, a link to a file sharing website was added on page 8 I am pretty sure.
 
LJust a few questions btw about trading...

When you have two of a resource that gives +1 health in your cities does that mean its effects are doubled? E.g. Double health? If not then trading a resource for a resource you have multiple of is a great idea in my oppinion.

No. It doesn't matter if you have 1 or if you have 10 of one resource, you still just get +1 health. The one and only advantage to having more than one at this stage of the game is that if someone wipes out the improvement on one of them you will still have the +1 from the other(s). This is not a significant benefit compared to getting another +1 health.

Later - much, much later - in the game you can get benefits from multiples. I don't remember if you have the guilds option turned on, but if you do then they may give some small benefit from multiples (these days, I do not actually know what guilds do for you). Later ("much, much" again) than that you can get benefits from multiples of resources via corporations.

You really should have traded for lemons (it may be too late now because it may have only been the Congo that would trade them to you). In your situation they are particularly good. I'm pretty sure one of the diseases you have in some of your cities stops providing unhealthiness if you have them, and you should get +1 health from them too. This effect on the disease is not mentioned on the pop-up for the lemons, just on the disease "building" itself.

More scoreboard icon info: at the left end of the Congo's row you can see the crossed swords symbol meaning they are at war with you. There used to be an exclamation mark in front of that which indicated that they are not willing to talk to you. At some point near the end of the last run the exclamation mark went away, so they should now be willing to talk to you.

I would suggest exploring some more. One hunter out exploring could do the trick - as could one horseman (except you can't build them yet because you have yet to build a horse trainer building) or one rogue. You still have not explored a large chunk of your continent. Do you even know where the Congolese territory is? That could be handy to know, considering that you are at war with them. I think you may have seen a small piece of the edge of their territory way off to the west shortly before the scout that went that way died, but I don't remember for sure.

At this point, I am a little surprised that neither the Egyptians nor the Maori have declared war on you. The Maori could have easily taken (or auto-razed) Perth (I think it is - the eastern-most city). At one point (an episode back) you had a stack of 3 unguarded workers next to the city building a camp on the deer right next to a Maori atl-atl who could have relieved you of them and then one turn later probably wiped out the stone axeman guarding the city. The stacks your rogue saw wandering around in Egyptian territory could have taken Melbourne way back then without much difficulty, in which case you'd have been locked in a war with them instead of peacefully (mostly) teching away, and you would have lost access to stone if you didn't get it back. I think the Egyptians didn't declare war on you probably for 3 reasons: they didn't "know" (as much as the AI can be said to know anything) the distribution of your forces, in particular that Melbourne was poorly defended compared to the size of their stack, also all the ships you had, even back then, were adding to your power total even though they would have been useless in a war, and they are located right next to the Aztecs and back then had no actual borders (their culture adjacent to your culture) with you (this matters in the AI's determination of whether or not they go to war).
 
The Maori could have easily taken (or auto-razed) Perth (I think it is - the eastern-most city). At one point (an episode back) you had a stack of 3 unguarded workers next to the city building a camp on the deer right next to a Maori atl-atl who could have relieved you of them and then one turn later probably wiped out the stone axeman guarding the city.
Heh... This old situation is now so far off now that I have recorded episode 14. It's gunna sadly take ages to edit since boy it's a huge episode (an hour and 55 minutes unedited) which left me with only 7 gig left on my D: drive (the episode is 185 gig uncompressed).

Anyway lets just say Perth is now very well defended and the nearby Maori... They are no longer a threat :)

Still I felt stupid trying to overtake a barbarian city. I destroyed it but could not take over commanding it... I wish I could have :( No problem because I have gained control of another unexpecting city through military means.... Who knew archers were so effective?


Oh but something sad... Adelaide's borders expanded again in episode 14 but still no fish so ill just have to forget about those Koas for now :(

Expect episode 14 in 30 hours if all goes well with me having enough time to edit it tomorrow or in 56 hours at the maximum if I don't get as much time as initially desired...
 
Lol, you have made playing this mod more fun to me because although I thought I understood this game when I started I really didn't understand it well. Once you understand a game and its actions/reactions then it's more fun to play :)

Exactly.

By the way...perhaps now you could offer me some advice. How do you quote multiple parts of a person's post separately? I thought it was the "multiple" button off to the right, but it doesn't seem to do so.

I also love your idea of having multiple strategic resources making units faster to build. Put it in the ideas thread, won't you?
 
Oh but something sad... Adelaide's borders expanded again in episode 14 but still no fish so ill just have to forget about those Koas for now :(

What? Seriously? I thought for certain it takes two pops to get to ocean terrain just outside the initial borders...well, that sucks. Seems God-emperor was right about koas being farther off than I thought. Well, the other civs will definitely all have archers by the time you get them, but they are still the best city attacking units you'll get for a long, long time.

Just keep spamming the culture buildings in Adelaide. Perhaps even tell them to build culture.
 
By the way...perhaps now you could offer me some advice. How do you quote multiple parts of a person's post separately? I thought it was the "multiple" button off to the right, but it doesn't seem to do so.
Basically just highlight what you want from a persons post and put "
" tags around it. A name is not needed... Just an opening and closing tag for the quote. You just repeat this process by scrolling up, highlighting and copying what you want to quote then pasting it in your post and putting quote marks around it.
 
I don't have any advice to offer, just wanted to let you know I'm really enjoying this Let's Play (and not having to wait for AI turns).
 
I don't have any advice to offer, just wanted to let you know I'm really enjoying this Let's Play (and not having to wait for AI turns).

Awesome, just what I wanted to hear ;)
The next episode (episode 14) finally has some combat in it so look forward to that once I edit out ai turn time for it. It typically takes me the length of the episode itself to edit out ai turn time but I don't do it all at once (10 minite break every 20 minutes) since my hands get sore (RSI).

I think you're the 2nd person to comment on ai turn time being cut out and I greatly appreciate it :)
 
What? Seriously? I thought for certain it takes two pops to get to ocean terrain just outside the initial borders...well, that sucks. Seems God-emperor was right about koas being farther off than I thought. Well, the other civs will definitely all have archers by the time you get them, but they are still the best city attacking units you'll get for a long, long time.

Just keep spamming the culture buildings in Adelaide. Perhaps even tell them to build culture.

I suspect the reef between the city and the fish slows the spread even more, but I'm not sure. I had expected the 2nd expansion to get it, but am not very surprised it didn't.

At this point (well, OK - too late since this is an episode behind), if you want to wage war I might suggest getting a horse breeder (and stable) built (they can be in Melbourne, at least), so you can build a few horsemen, and research copper working. Javelineers are enabled there and for attacking archers in cities they should be almost as good as a Koa, and better at it if the archer is not in a city:
Javelineer: strength 5, +50% vs. archery units => effectively 7.5
Koa: strength 7, +20% city attack => effectively 8.4 if archer is in a city, 7 if not

They are also a little cheaper (base costs from XML, these are modified by the game
settings but will be proportionately the same):
Javelineer: 35 with a +15% production bonus from cooper (and iron too, which is irrelevant at this stage)
Koa: 40
You can also upgrade an atl-atl to a javelineer, should you have any laying around (I don't think you can build them after javelins become available to you since they upgrade to archers or javelineers and you'd have both; it would be possible to build some before the copper working is researched specifically for the purposes of upgrading them, allowing you to essentially convert some of the gold stockpile to production).

Javelineers are almost as good vs. mounted units as they get a +25% for that, so 6.25 vs. the koa's 7.

On the other hand, javelineers are not anywhere near as good vs. melee units since the koa starts with a free Shock promotion for +20% vs. melee making them the same 8.4 for that too (and even higher if the melee unit is in a city as the +20% for that is cumulative), which is much better than the javelineer's 5 for this. Note that a koa will tend to slaughter a javelineer because both of them count as melee units so it is 8.4 vs. 5 in favor of the koa.

Then once you do finally get some koas made, you can back them up with the javelineers and horsemen (and hopefully a couple battering rams and the occasional archer).

Anyhow, that would be my advice for going on a rampage the moment you discovered that the 2nd border pop wouldn't get you the koas.

By the way, I don't know if you are aware of this but you could be considered to be in a race to get the koas. The Maori are, not too surprisingly, also an Oceanian culture (in the real world they are Polynesian, after all) and can therefore also get the culture that enables the koa (the Polynesian culture). If the Maori get fish before you do, they can get that culture and, since it is a world wonder, that will block you from getting it (unless, perhaps, you can take it from them - but that could be hard if they build koas). Their city north of Perth has a fish somewhere near it, but it is also an ocean fish, not coastal, as I recall. There is no good way of knowing if they have any other cities that have, or could have before you do, access to fish.

Another user interface suggestion: Open the foreign advisor so you (and we) can see who is at war. It should be in the group of round buttons to the upper right, about the 4th from the left, I think. This is the same advisor screen where you can see an overview of resource trading on one of the tabs, and some other stuff. The first tab on that advisor screen shows color coded lines connecting the civilizations that know each other, and from that you can tell who is at war. There have been some war declaration announcements scroll by in the messages and some peace announcements as well. At this point, I have no idea who is at war with whom and I bet you don't know either. It occurred to me after my last post that perhaps the Egyptians are already at war with someone (or could have being in the past, which wouldn't show up there via the color coding but can be determined by diplomacy modifiers between them and the other civs; that is most easily seen on the "glance" tab where you can go across a row or down a column and see what the diplomatic modifiers between civ A and civ B are via the pop-up for each item in the table).

Yet another user interface note: You can see the history of the message that have scrolled past in the upper center of the screen via the messages dialog. The uppermost left button (below the civilopedia button) should be the one. Alternatively you can get to it via Ctrl-Tab. Some messages "decay", disappearing from the log (I think combat messages only last 1 turn - there may be some others that disappear that quickly and there might be some that go away but take a couple more turns to do so). When you wondered what building the fire event wiped out in your capital you started reading the messages that were scrolling past. A few messages after you stopped reading them, there was one that said what it was (the fire dance building, I think). If you had opened the message log, you could have seen it. All the messages go to the log without delay, unlike the ones that scroll up the screen which have something like a 3 second delay between them. This log also has 2 more tabs, one which gives the detailed reports for each combat and another that shows what quests, if any, you have received that you have not completed and which have not expired (you haven't got any yet - there may not be any in the prehistoric era and I don't think there are very many you can get in the ancient era either; they are a type of random event that gives you the opportunity to get some bonus if you do something before it expires or before someone else who has gotten the same quest, which rarely happens, does it).
 
I suspect the reef between the city and the fish slows the spread even more, but I'm not sure. I had expected the 2nd expansion to get it, but am not very surprised it didn't.

At this point (well, OK - too late since this is an episode behind), if you want to wage war I might suggest getting a horse breeder (and stable) built (they can be in Melbourne, at least), so you can build a few horsemen, and research copper working. Javelineers are enabled there and for attacking archers in cities they should be almost as good as a Koa, and better at it if the archer is not in a city:
Javelineer: strength 5, +50% vs. archery units => effectively 7.5
Koa: strength 7, +20% city attack => effectively 8.4 if archer is in a city, 7 if not

They are also a little cheaper (base costs from XML, these are modified by the game
settings but will be proportionately the same):
Javelineer: 35 with a +15% production bonus from cooper (and iron too, which is irrelevant at this stage)
Koa: 40
You can also upgrade an atl-atl to a javelineer, should you have any laying around (I don't think you can build them after javelins become available to you since they upgrade to archers or javelineers and you'd have both; it would be possible to build some before the copper working is researched specifically for the purposes of upgrading them, allowing you to essentially convert some of the gold stockpile to production).

Javelineers are almost as good vs. mounted units as they get a +25% for that, so 6.25 vs. the koa's 7.

On the other hand, javelineers are not anywhere near as good vs. melee units since the koa starts with a free Shock promotion for +20% vs. melee making them the same 8.4 for that too (and even higher if the melee unit is in a city as the +20% for that is cumulative), which is much better than the javelineer's 5 for this. Note that a koa will tend to slaughter a javelineer because both of them count as melee units so it is 8.4 vs. 5 in favor of the koa.

Then once you do finally get some koas made, you can back them up with the javelineers and horsemen (and hopefully a couple battering rams and the occasional archer).

Anyhow, that would be my advice for going on a rampage the moment you discovered that the 2nd border pop wouldn't get you the koas.

By the way, I don't know if you are aware of this but you could be considered to be in a race to get the koas. The Maori are, not too surprisingly, also an Oceanian culture (in the real world they are Polynesian, after all) and can therefore also get the culture that enables the koa (the Polynesian culture). If the Maori get fish before you do, they can get that culture and, since it is a world wonder, that will block you from getting it (unless, perhaps, you can take it from them - but that could be hard if they build koas). Their city north of Perth has a fish somewhere near it, but it is also an ocean fish, not coastal, as I recall. There is no good way of knowing if they have any other cities that have, or could have before you do, access to fish.

Another user interface suggestion: Open the foreign advisor so you (and we) can see who is at war. It should be in the group of round buttons to the upper right, about the 4th from the left, I think. This is the same advisor screen where you can see an overview of resource trading on one of the tabs, and some other stuff. The first tab on that advisor screen shows color coded lines connecting the civilizations that know each other, and from that you can tell who is at war. There have been some war declaration announcements scroll by in the messages and some peace announcements as well. At this point, I have no idea who is at war with whom and I bet you don't know either. It occurred to me after my last post that perhaps the Egyptians are already at war with someone (or could have being in the past, which wouldn't show up there via the color coding but can be determined by diplomacy modifiers between them and the other civs; that is most easily seen on the "glance" tab where you can go across a row or down a column and see what the diplomatic modifiers between civ A and civ B are via the pop-up for each item in the table).

Yet another user interface note: You can see the history of the message that have scrolled past in the upper center of the screen via the messages dialog. The uppermost left button (below the civilopedia button) should be the one. Alternatively you can get to it via Ctrl-Tab. Some messages "decay", disappearing from the log (I think combat messages only last 1 turn - there may be some others that disappear that quickly and there might be some that go away but take a couple more turns to do so). When you wondered what building the fire event wiped out in your capital you started reading the messages that were scrolling past. A few messages after you stopped reading them, there was one that said what it was (the fire dance building, I think). If you had opened the message log, you could have seen it. All the messages go to the log without delay, unlike the ones that scroll up the screen which have something like a 3 second delay between them. This log also has 2 more tabs, one which gives the detailed reports for each combat and another that shows what quests, if any, you have received that you have not completed and which have not expired (you haven't got any yet - there may not be any in the prehistoric era and I don't think there are very many you can get in the ancient era either; they are a type of random event that gives you the opportunity to get some bonus if you do something before it expires or before someone else who has gotten the same quest, which rarely happens, does it).

All fantastic advice. I had actually realized about the race for the koas, but forgot to mention it in my last post.

I still think horsemen are crap compared to koas. City attack, shock for free, seven base strength? They are a true king-of-all-trades. I hope he didn't try to rush for the great lighthouse, though. I was under the mistaken impression that it was available under sailing, when in truth it was a ways off. I need to be more careful.

I do wish he would resume reading the tech quotes. I liked that. I also really wish he'd read the description of the various great people when he gets one.
 
Yes thanks for all the advice god emperor. I'll try to implement it in episode 15 but for now I shall work on editing episode 14 so you can all see it :)

Their city north of Perth has a fish somewhere near it, but it is also an ocean fish, not coastal.
Heh... Yes, "their" city ;)

I hope he didn't try to rush for the great lighthouse, though. I was under the mistaken impression that it was available under sailing, when in truth it was a ways off. I need to be more careful.
I realized it was way off and chose another tech to aim for instead... Currency I think it was so I could spend my gold to rush buildings rather than just have it sit there doing nothing...

I do wish he would resume reading the tech quotes. I liked that. I also really wish he'd read the description of the various great people when he gets one.
Ah ok I will... I guess I stopped reading them because I got sick of seeing the same ones over and over... And was embarrised by "reading problem" with words I have never seen before...
 
Ho, ho, I see the Maori are no match for the mighty Australians. Well, good job.

And yes, I did like that. And it's a great way to increase your vocabulary. But yes, reading the same ones you've already read is silly. No need to bother with those.
 
Ho, ho, I see the Maori are no match for the mighty Australians. Well, good job.
Shhh... Lets not reveal the massive spoiler ;)

And yes, I did like that. And it's a great way to increase your vocabulary. But yes, reading the same ones you've already read is silly. No need to bother with those.
K awesome... Btw in episode 14 even though I recorded it before I read this I practically read most tech quotes anyway. Oh and talking about episode 14 I've done editing it and its now gunna process on my computer for an hour. After that it will take 5 hours to upload then another hour for youtube to process it in the default 360p and maybe another hour or two after that for 720p HD to process.

Oh and the episode was an hour and 55 minutes originally but without ai turn time it's now shortened to an hour and 40 minutes. The episode had 40 turns in it so ai turn time is now about 20 seconds per turn. Bet you love not having to wait through that lol :)

I feel that let's plays of this game suffer beyond the classical era due to the extensive ai turn time after that time period. This lets play I promise will never end unless I die or win. And remember.... The only win setting I have turned on is the one requiring me to destroy every last city on the map. Now that's an everlasting challenge!

The only difference longer ai turn time will make later on is either shorter episodes or longer intervals between the uploading of episodes. When it gets to that point ill ask you guys what you would prefer but personally I think shorter episodes would be better since it would give you all more of a chance to comment on what's happening.
 
Well... its uploading now but I gotta go to bed so like usual give it a few hours (4-8) then try visiting the link to watch the video in preferably 720p HD. Hope you enjoy ;)

Episode 14: http://youtu.be/plpa1ChP3IM
After a group of barbarian maceman and atlatls "destroy" some of our workers I decide its time to go on a rampage with my archers against the barbarians. The rampage wasn't as satisfying as I thought it would be however and I still had many archers left so I then did something a little more drastic... Took over a weaker civ's city. Now the war begins!
 
@12padams

Some things ...

1. You still have not gotten the other Lobster resource near Adelaide.

2. You should be building Trading Posts to unlock more types of buildings.

3. Why would you put a mine on the Poultry resource? Now you lost one poultry. You need a camp.

4. If you get another Caribou bring it to another another city to build a Deer Herd, which gives food.

5. Make sure you attack cities that are size 2 or larger. Size 1 cities will be destroyed if you attack them.
 
Well, that's the last straw for me. I had to stop watching right when you told your workers, who were trying to camp that poultry near Canberra, to mine it instead. You do realize you currently have no poultry, right? You traded your only other source with some civ, for beads or something, which you can simply make with a beadmaker's hut.

Anyways, I'm not going to be watching the rest of this LP. But it's not because you're not a very good player. It's the fact that I spend so much time trying to explain out how you can get better, and then having to watch you completely ignore my advice the very next episode.

I spent all that time telling you how to make sure you were always building something useful, and then I had to watch you completely ignore my suggestion that you go through all the buildings available, to see what is good and not, and instead, simply build research. There was one part where you could've build a wonder, for goodness sake. And yet, you chose research.

I spent all that time explaining how to not sleep your dogs. And now you're back at it again.

I spent all that time explaining out the various audio cues that something important is happening in the game's world, and yet I had to watch, turn after turn, hearing that march noise as that small barbarian stack marched towards Canberra. You didn't even make an attempt to explain the noises at the beginning of the video. And what's worse, is when your dog tried to warn you, "Uh, hey, there's some guys with pointy sticks traipsing about near the capitol", you just put him to sleep.

I spent all that time trying to let you get writing and alphabet for free, explaining how to do it, explaining how you could switch into all the civics for free, too, and then you completely forgot all about those wonders that we spent the last several episodes trying to make sure were built correctly.

In short, that's it for me.

It's my natural tendency to give advice whenever I see someone doing something that I know could be done better. A bad thing or a good thing, I don't know, but it is the truth. But I'm not going to keep putting myself in the enormously frustrating position of having keep saying the same things over and over again. So, to bring that about, I'm just going to stop watching.

You have gotten better, 12padams. You seem to know how to hunt well now, for one. But, well, watching you play has simply become a frustrating experience for me. So, no more.

And I know I am not some civ-god. I've made several mistakes already, too. Misjudging the spread of culture in Adelaide, forgetting that trade needs portable shelters first, forgetting that the "trade" tab in the foreign advisor is actually called "resources"... so, I hope no one thinks I'm trying to be elitist.

Best of luck with your game.




Oh, and on the resources tab in the foreign advisor? Click the little green down arrow on the bottom right corner. That's where all the other civs are.
 
@wolfensoul9

Yeah I was both yelling and laughing at my screen too. You have to realize that the only way to really learn is to make mistakes. You can tell him what to do but until he makes the mistakes for himself and realize what he has done he is never going to remember. However I am happy he now pronounces Beluga correctly. :p Maybe you need to have a song for him. HA! :lol:

*Sings*
Doggy do not go to sleep.
Or you will make Wolffy weep.
Doggy do not go to sleep.
Be on sentry in your castle keep.
Doggy do not go to sleep.
Doggy why are you asleep?
I told you not to go to sleep!
WAKE UP!
 
@wolfensoul9

Yeah I was both yelling and laughing at my screen too. You have to realize that the only way to really learn is to make mistakes. You can tell him what to do but until he makes the mistakes for himself and realize what he has done he is never going to remember. However I am happy he now pronounces Beluga correctly. :p Maybe you need to have a song for him. HA! :lol:

*Sings*
Doggy do not go to sleep.
Or you will make Wolffy weep.
Doggy do not go to sleep.
Be on sentry in your castle keep.
Doggy do not go to sleep.
Doggy why are you asleep.
I told you not to go to sleep!
WAKE UP!

Hahaha! Well, that upped my mood a little. Thanks, Hydro. Perhaps you're right. Too bad I'm not much of a lyricist.

By the way.... 100th post!

Perhaps you could give me a special 100th post gift and make the Stonehenge and Moai statues not require stone, but get double speed from it instead...? Never hurts to ask, I suppose.
 
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