CCM1 (epic mod)

[Civinator]

tom2050, I really enjoy your story and and all your comments about gameplay in CCM.

BTW.: I´m working on the next version of the CCM Betatestbiq and it seems that this will be a big progress for CCM.

 

[cemo1956]

One fast Q ...

The artillery are set to offensive, not artillery. I guess it´s being produced with buildings and do have bombard strength. But I see a very decent offensive punch too.
Will the AI really use them in artillery situations or just as attacking units.

It would be great if the AI really used them as artillery and perhaps it should be a bombard range of 2 or 3.

I understand you used them same stuff in the dorment SOE mod. Has it then been to your 100% satisfaction in how the AI will use artillery.

 

[vmxa]

In my game they used them as attackers. Even let them go on alone, after losing all the units with it.

 

[Civinator]

The arty in CCM and SOE is an offensive unit with limited stealth attack and defensive fire. Especially in SOE with thousands of units on the map this setting is working fine, as AI arty mostly attacks hostile arties in a stack and fires back when the stack is attacked by other units.

 

[tom2050]

Quick Bug Report... civilopedia only:

Ancient Cavalry Pedia entry says they receive 1 extra hitpoint... but in-game they do not have this bonus. Veteran Ancient Cavalry have 4 hitpoints, 5 at elite.

War Elephants are superior to Ancient Cavalry, and to Knights (yes, Knights) because of their extra hitpoint.
War Elephant has same stats as Anc Cavlary, but extra hitpoint makes it better.
War Elephant (3.2.2) looks worse than Knight (4.2.2), but the extra hitpoint makes it a superior defender, and the extra hitpoint makes it extremely close in effectiveness on the attack (within 1% in most cases). The extra 15 shields the War Elephant costs over the other 2 is a big difference... and I think all of these units fit very well how they are implemented. It gives options, with subtle advantages.

- Horseman cost the same as Archers, but are far superior in every conceivable way. Perhaps one of the other should cost a bit more or less?

Tom

 

[Civinator]

tom2050, one more time thank you very much for your help. The error in the civilopedia is noted and will be fixed.

Concerning the war elephants: May be it´s better to let them upgrade to hussars.

Concerning archer/horseman: The archer has limited stealth attack and can be more devastating than a horseman. The secret is to attack with horsemen (or other fast attackers) and than finish the damaged units with the stealth attack of archers. May be I rise the costs for horsemen a little bit.

 

[tom2050]

tom2050, one more time thank you very much for your help. The error in the civilopedia is noted and will be fixed.

Concerning the war elephants: May be it´s better to let them upgrade to hussars.

Concerning archer/horseman: The archer has limited stealth attack and can be more devastating than a horseman. The secret is to attack with horsemen (or other fast attackers) and than finish the damaged units with the stealth attack of archers. May be I rise the costs for horsemen a little bit.

Well, even if I could build War Elephants (which I can't in this game), I would only do so in a few high production cities. Their additional expense is too much for small towns to deal with. They seem good how they are right now. If I had to choose a War Ele or Knight for free, I would choose the Elephant. But if I had to build one in a regular town, I choose Knight (quicker build).

I forgot about the Archer's stealth attack. I suppose since no AI has those units (to stealth on) anymore, I stopped building them early. I'm being attacked by units I need Longbowmen to take out! (Unless Archers can stealth on Longbowmen???? )

Tom

 

[vmxa]

Civinator, any idea of when the next update will finish? I was going to try another game to see if tghe fixes work, but I would prefer to wait for the changes. That is, if we are talking about weeks, not months.

 

[Moosezilla]

I'm too slow for a new update too soon but whenever is cool because progress should not stop. Just reached 1750 AD and got compound steam, next turn Arms race is finished. I made the inconsequential mistake of cutting off supplies from north of China when I DOWed on them. I had to end a trade agreement w/ Arabia to get back my Iron!

 

[jlvfr]

I'm still forging on with Carthage (stuck in 2-front war right now...) and I have a problem: I can't build P-51s. I have the tech and the resources, but they don't show up on the to-build list. Any ideas?

 

[mythusmage]

I'm still forging on with Carthage (stuck in 2-front war right now...) and I have a problem: I can't build P-51s. I have the tech and the resources, but they don't show up on the to-build list. Any ideas?

Build what you can. Haven't played that far yet, but I suspect that P-51s are America specific units. Even if you've conquered or subverted America I rather doubt you'd get to build P-51s.

 

[Civinator]

I forgot about the Archer's stealth attack. I suppose since no AI has those units (to stealth on) anymore, I stopped building them early. I'm being attacked by units I need Longbowmen to take out! (Unless Archers can stealth on Longbowmen???? )

The limited stealth attack of archers is only for some early era 1 units. The longbowman is era 2 and therefore no target for a stealth attack of the archer.

The longbowman in early CCM biqs had stealth attack and was produced by the AI in masses. After I removed the stealth attack from the longbowmen the AI reduced the production of that unit.

 

[Civinator]

Civinator, any idea of when the next update will finish? I was going to try another game to see if tghe fixes work, but I would prefer to wait for the changes. That is, if we are talking about weeks, not months.

I hope the next version of the CCM betatest-biq will come next weekend. I have a real great testgame with it. The problem is, that the timescale at present doesn´t fit to the changed tech-costs. Here a lot of calculations and observations must be done and at present I only have the time for it on weekends.

 

[Civinator]

I'm still forging on with Carthage (stuck in 2-front war right now...) and I have a problem: I can't build P-51s. I have the tech and the resources, but they don't show up on the to-build list. Any ideas?

The P-51s are only available for the US. So if you don´t play the US all is clear, otherwise we have to do a closer look to it.

 

[jlvfr]

The P-51s are only available for the US. So if you don´t play the US all is clear, otherwise we have to do a closer look to it.

Aah... I suspected that. But you have to correct their Civilopedia entry

 

[tom2050]

SID - Italy, the 2nd attempt contined

1470AD - Persia = Newton's University. My enslaver who is out north keeping watch for enemies, has spotted the first main wave of 19 Korean War Elephants and Knights! All units are headed to the front (not sure what city they are heading for exactly)

1490AD - The Koreans are literally lined up heading down in between my cities of Turin and Genoa. I have set some of my fast units up there, to strike the first units coming in. But I will likely have to go on defense soon. Most cities can produce Horsemen (yes, I can only still make Horsemen) in 1 turn, so that's what I'm doing (except for Rome, can build Legionaries in 1 turn).



1500AD - First Praetorian produced in Rome! (Archers and Horsemen the same price... Horsemen are waaaay better by having 1 extra speed).
1505AD - First 3 War Elephants and a Knight enter territory of Genoa. Horsemen are still invaluable! Their cheap cost and speed of 2 lets Knights and War Elephants not be able to escape, yet they have a terrific chance of success. Things are looking brighter already. A few more turns to The Republic! This means Ancient Calavry. Although I can't produce them as fast, they are far superior to horsemen, and thus worth the cost.
1520AD - The War Elephants that attacked near Genoa have got slaughtered. Close to 15+ of them. With my Golden Age, I can create around 9 Horsemen every turn. Although most don't survive against the Elephants, they weaken them enough for me to take them out with other units. The big problem is Turin now, all units are reinforcing Turin, and the problem heading that way is BIG... see the pic.



1530AD - China = Forbidden Palace
1540AD - Yea! Rome can produce an Ancient Cavalry every turn! This is good! It will be a bummer when the Golden Age ends! The Golden Age has no doubt SAVED me from destruction by Korea. I am still holding out, thanks to the constant flow of units every turn into Turin. Now that I have a descent unit (A. Cavalry), I am able to withstand much better. My Praetorians are good defenders in the city.
1555AD - The heavy influx of my A. Cavalry has pretty much decimated the Korean onslaught (Although I myself have lost many many units, but I can easily replenish them). I no longer have anything to fear from the remaining forces in the area.
1560AD - Babylon/Iraq demands my Iron source, I don't think so. They declare war. Maya = Mesoamerican Christianization. Sign Peace Treaty with Korea (I get 100 gold/ 3 per turn).
1585AD - Babylon is to my north, above Israel. My forces have amassed on my (long) northern border waiting for the first sign of units. Enslavers have been ordered to enter Israel territory and watch for enemy Babylon units approaching.
1590AD - Golden Age has come to an end. I'm actually ahead in tech of 1 civ, the USA!
1620AD - Greece = East India Company. No Babylonian units have been spotted, perhaps they cannot get through ISrael territory. Germany = Brandenburg Gate.
1645AD - The end of the Golden Age, and with my government as a Monarchy has caused some financial issues. Each unit costing 2 gold/turn has made it cost 220 gold/turn for unit support costs. I cannot get rid of units, or I will leave myself weak. I am building no more units though, but I need 10% to entertainment, and I can only afford 10% to research now!
1650AD - One way to possibly know if invisible units are in your area, is that the camera, during turns, will relocate somewhere as it does when a unit moves, but nothing is there. I am going to comb the area near Turin where this happened and see if I kill/find any invisible units there. Knowing this, invisible units will no longer be 'hidden' to a watchful eye .
1680AD - The first Babylonian Musketman appears on my northwestern border. I have large cities there that I took from Britain. And I have many units on my northern border. My enslaver got killed that was keeping watch in Israel territory, but I will pump up unit numbers because my highest attack of 3 and 4 against defense of 6 is not a great thing for me.
1700AD - Germany has Prussian Riflemen!
1702AD - Russia = Kremlin
1708AD - French = Arc De Triomphe
1712AD - Greece = Eiffel Tower. OMG I am sooo behind. Aztec = Wall Street. As soon as I get Knights, it's war time with Germany.. no other choice but to expand.
1714AD - Israel = Blue Riband
1720AD - According to Machiavelli, I have the 2nd largest nation of the world, behind the Arabs. Woohoo!
1722AD - Portugal demands wines, I say no. I'll Have Knights soon, so I should be able to disrupt anyone who ventures across the world to get me. Woo Hoo again! According to Tacitus, the Italians are the Happiest nation in the world!
1732AD - Some Babylonian Riflemen finally showed up on my northern border. They have 7.7.1 to my Ancient Cavalry 3.2.2 and Catapult 4.1.2. As long as I fight slower units, I have a good chance of not losing too many, since they can escape.
1734AD - Germany and Austria-Hungary sign a mutual protection pact, talk about almost historical!
1738AD - Israel and Babylon/Iraq sign a MPP (yea right). I will make peace with Babylon because of this.
1750AD - Some Portugal units showed up on my northernmost border (approx 15 Cavalry, Hussar, Chariots, War Elephants, and Knights). Lucky for me I have 25+ Anc. Cavalry, some Catapults, and Chariots in the area, along with about 15-20 Legionaries in nearby cities. My total force is 226 units (costing me 318/turn). I should be able to dispatch these forces without too much problem. I will have Chivalry next turn, finally!
1752AD - Nevermind, many more units showed up. I am dispatching all Cavalry, Chariot, and Catapult units up north to battle!
1754AD - My northern town Livorno (just recently built) was taken by Portugal. I moved most units out though, since I knew I could not defend it.
1756AD - Persia = National Monument. All cities have gone to full war production to beat the Portugeuse back and re-take my city. Greece = Arm's Race. Someone is blistering my city of Pisa (near the German Border) almost every few turns with propaganda campaigns. Spanish declare war on me, they had a MPP with Portugal.
1758AD - Portugal pushed directly south on Udine, and although Udine only has 9 units defending it, my first 48 units (Cavalry, Catapults, and Knights) have arrived at the front within striking distance. I almost retook Livorno, and have 30 units there to strike next turn.



1760AD - The weak defense of my Anc Cavalry units took a beating at Livorno from the high attack units that Portugal had there, but I should still be able to take the city back. --- I take back Livorno, decimating their units with only 1 loss (most were still weakened, not healed yet).
1781AD - Spanish conquistadors are a real pain.. they can attack out of the blue from 6 tiles away. They just took 4 of my slave workers (which killed them all for some reason when I went to take them back).

1785AD - Portugal showed up on my eastern border with a huge stack of slower units. Half of them are weak early units such as archers and spearman, with some other more modern musketman and musketeers. Since that is the border with Germany, I have a large number of units there already, but will bring more over to deal with the 40+ unit stacks they have. :: The first 15 weaker unit stack was defeated easily. The other stacks combined into 1 and is about 20+ units 1 tile away from my city of Verona. To deal with the tougher units, I brought together about 50 Knights to attack them (since my best defense is still only 3). Since all my cities are only building Knights and Pikeman, my army is getting quite large .
1786AD - Israel has destroyed the Chinese! Also, my empire which was the largest in teh world is now 3rd largest. I need to make a move against someone to stay in the game.
1791AD - HUGE Spanish stacks showed up down south (200 units at least). They are all weaker units, but the pure number of them is bad. I might lose my southern most city.
1792AD - I destroyed as many Spanish units as possible then made peace. Only because of their huge stacks of spearman and warrior, it is just annoying having them go around and destroy all improvements with crap units. Not fun. Plus their Conquistadors are also annoying, attack your cities from 6 tiles away over any terrain ?? A bit extreme..? Lost another 4 workers (slave workers) because of it.
1795AD - Many of the hordes of Spanish units are still moving through my territory... this is good, my Missionaries and Enslavers are having a field day. And they are winning gold medals with all the kills they are racking up. I took bad losses, and my army has been depleted. I can't build units fast enough!

1797AD - Game crashed to desktop when I went to upgrade my Spearman. Guess that means the unit limit has been reached. Game Over. Another reason why I don't normally play SID. What a waste to not be able to play further; of course I could by not upgrading my units, but that would be dumb, and not worth my time.

Tom

 

[adz106]

Just a suggestion, but I think since you have stealth bombers and fighters available to all civs it would be prudent to add the F-22 as a USA specific unit as well as the F-35 to USA/Neth/Britain/Australia/France/Italy/Canada/Israel/Japan/Turkey/Norway/India.

 

[vmxa]

Tom Conq are a real pain in C3C as they treat mountains as, if they had a road. I had the same issue in an AW game as it was easy to over look a spot. I never ran into any upgrade issue in any game.

I have played scores of Sid games, many times a single civ would have over 2,000 units. I never ran into it even on 250x250 AWDG with 31 nations. I do run into city limit of 512 a lot.

I guess it could be that since I try to kill off nations, the counts do not hit the cap. I have not paid close attention, but I have seen more than 6,000 units in the game many times. I know the limit is 8192.

Usually in my sid games, they get to the point they cannot make more units as they are at the support limit. Each unit sits in queue, till one is killed or disbanded.

Where you on a pan map or continents? Pan is very very tough at Sid, with the default number of nations for the map size. Continents are only very hard, while archi is just hard.

I forgot already, but armies are not allowed in CCM right? I would for sure not want to tackle Sid without armies, removes too many needed tactics.

How is the Homm mod going?

 

[tom2050]

Pangea 60% land, 31 civs... it had to be unit limit, since not upgrading that unit does not cause a crash. Some of the civ's have hordes of money though, so I'm not sure if they will go over the limit or not.

HoMM still going, need to wait for Steph's next version of his editor to finish, and need more conversions done.

I may try to keep going and not upgrade any units, but this is bad for me, I need the latest units. I don't know why they would put such nonsense as a unit cap in, doesn't make any sense. Sure, it's to keep speed of game up, but there are other ways they could have done it so game doesn't crash.

Tom

 

[mythusmage]

SID - Italy, the 2nd attempt continued

1470AD - Persia...

An interesting tale. Pity the game crashed. I must remind you of one very important fact, quality has a quantity all its own. Or, 40 cavalry and a few cannons can stomp the snot out of 80 knights. More so if your guys start as veterans and the enemy has regulars.