CDG Series Discussion Thread

[consentient]

OK, I'll take back over as caretaker host. Beetle, send me your Theo map.

With that one, and a couple I've rolled in the last week or so, I have enough maps to last a few months.

But please, those of you sitting on your maps, send them in! I don't have enough time to do all this by myself. I will post a map before Saturday as I'm travelling for 2 weeks after that, and then the next one will be Feb 3/4.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

The only thing I'm sitting on is a broken computer, I can't even open CIV until I fix it let alone build the awesome maps I wanted to make. It'll be fixed one day, but not today.

Glad you're back though, and looking forward to seeing the new maps.

 

[beetle]

@consentient, I sent you a PM about Theo.

When you have the chance, could you get back to unanswered questions on the other CDG games? For example, with CDG#2 Assyria, founding did not seem to be option. Did you tweak the map? With CDG#3 Ethiopia, was the closer NW supposed to be a gift to the AI? With CDG#4 Indonesia, is there a theme to opponents? Even though I am asking these questions here, I would rather see the answers in the three different threads!

With that one, and a couple I've rolled in the last week or so, I have enough maps to last a few months.

I would like to know more about your method for being confident that you have a map worth sharing. Your CDG maps so far have been terrific.

For Byzantium, I had a couple themes in mind for the opponents (one of which, no surprise, is getting some naval battles). But it was not until my third map that I was satisfied that the RNG was giving me a suitable field. And it takes me 6+ hours to get through enough of a game to decide if it is worth sharing (or not). I was pretty burned on Byzantium by then!

So I guess I am looking for heuristics so I might abandon games sooner? I have not tried IGE, so that might help.

Speaking of IGE, I was thinking of it mostly as tool for clearing polar ice, but polar ice has not been a problem with the maps I have rolled using the TI and NQ scripts.

Will IGE work well for placing/moving natural wonders? I was think that a Pangaea start with all warmongering neighbors would very interesting, but I would make the map up in three variants. Deity+ would remove a lux or resource. Deity would be unmodified. Not-Deity would add a lux and resource -- or maybe Kilimanjaro?

Is that the sort of the thing people would be interested in?

 

[Sclb]

IGE can show the entire map once you rolled one, also used to edit most things on the map, including deleting NW or adding new ones, or moving them to make it harder or easier. It can also be used to edit AI or yourself including granting new tech/SP at the start.

 

[Blatc]

IGE can show the entire map once you rolled one, also used to edit most things on the map, including deleting NW or adding new ones, or moving them to make it harder or easier. It can also be used to edit AI or yourself including granting new tech/SP at the start.

This is a request to map makers. I'm putting this in spoilers so, if it ends up in the CDG, people will only know if they decided to read this spoiler.

Spoiler :

At some point in the CDG, I'd really love a DomV game with Mt. Kilimanjaro and Fountain of Youth nearby. Given the easy/medium/hard rotation, this may work best for an easy map. If someone was willing to make this, I'd enjoy helping with achievements and suggesting civs.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

This is a request to map makers. I'm putting this in spoilers so, if it ends up in the CDG, people will only know if they decided to read this spoiler.

Spoiler :

At some point in the CDG, I'd really love a DomV game with Mt. Kilimanjaro and Fountain of Youth nearby. Given the easy/medium/hard rotation, this may work best for an easy map. If someone was willing to make this, I'd enjoy helping with achievements and suggesting civs.

Spoiler :

This is exactly the kind of map I wanted to do, for the Huns as an OCC against a huge onslaught of horrible warmongers. It was going to be epic, and then my stupid motherboard fried and I never got a chance to sit down and build it. I was going to tailor edit each tile to make it like the wonderful Venice DCL map, and do the same for the enemies. Only I was going to put El-dorado and Lake Victoria next to it too and GBR and krakatoa creating a little harbor area to launch the cleanup sea invasion. Once I get this fixed, it'll be coming regardless of whether someone else does it or not, but if it can be posted in here then it will be. I didn't think anyone else would want it but me... I have to get this f%$^$%$# computer fixed!!

 

[stormtrooper412]

yeah but

Spoiler :

going OCC would defeat its purpose since all conquered cities are insta-razed. Unless you mean all of those would be near the player. That would be extreme

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

yeah but

Spoiler :

going OCC would defeat its purpose since all conquered cities are insta-razed. Unless you mean all of those would be near the player. That would be extreme

Spoiler :

My goal was to make one super city with more natural wonders than anyone could imagine, and give the Huns some more advantages, and then send them out on a race against time against some of the most hated Civs who would all be settling as many cities as possible. I figured OCC would make it more challenging since then the Huns only had one super city on a peninsula to build units in and send them to the front lines and could not enjoy the usual warmongering benefits while the enemy built cities everywhere it could send a settler to. I was going to build some unique battlefields into this map, to really give it the full effect. There would be some more surprises in there for us all too.

 

[consentient]

When you have the chance, could you get back to unanswered questions on the other CDG games?

Of course, but I will answer here. I have no interest in trawling the old threads. If you want to do the legwork of copying and pasting there, that's up to you!

with CDG#2 Assyria, founding did not seem to be option. Did you tweak the map?

Yes. Founding was not an option because all AIs received huge benefits.

Spoiler :

They started with capitals of above size 1, granary, library and faith buildings, plus extra scouts, IIRC. Nebby got an academy. The idea was that it would be a straight science game without religion shenanigans.

With CDG#3 Ethiopia, was the closer NW supposed to be a gift to the AI?

No, I settled it in my playthrough, IIRC.

With CDG#4 Indonesia, is there a theme to opponents?

No.

I would like to know more about your method for being confident that you have a map worth sharing. Your CDG maps so far have been terrific.

I'm glad you like them. I guess that since I was host of DCL for a while (not as long as Acken but longer than Dinglebirdy) and have played all the DCLs and have a decent knowledge of what I like and what I don't, that I'm not bad at making maps.

My method is simple, and I've also stated it several times before for the benefit of others. One last time:-

1. Load 'Rotate start positions' mod. This mod is not required to play maps made with it. It just lets you look at the different start positions and save the maps.

2. Save all start positions that look OK. This is kinda subjective, but it doesn't matter anyway. I usually save them like 'Monty 1a, 1b, 1c, 2a, 2b', where the number is the map and the letter is the position. I do this until I have 3 different maps. I don't care about the number of positions.

3. Exit to main menu, then Load 'IGE', zoom out all the way (so the game isn't completely spoiled for me) and remove the ice, and check the overall shape of the land masses. This allows for omitting isolated starts, or boring or undesirable elements (again, subjective, but you said you enjoyed what I'd chosen). In particular, I thought that the Spain CDG was an interesting shape, no?

4. (optional) If I want to make extra tweaks to AI or human environments, I will take a good look around and change things. I generally don't like to do this, but of the next few maps, there will be one like this. Maybe 1 in 3 has extra tweaks.

Now, I had NO idea that ED was in the Assyria map until I found it in my play through (woefully late, I might add), and there will always be things about the maps that people think I must have tweaked. But a lot of the time, using the NQ map scripts is enough to guarantee that they are great. Most of the credit must therefore go to them.

For Byzantium, I had a couple themes in mind for the opponents (one of which, no surprise, is getting some naval battles). But it was not until my third map that I was satisfied that the RNG was giving me a suitable field. And it takes me 6+ hours to get through enough of a game to decide if it is worth sharing (or not). I was pretty burned on Byzantium by then!

So I guess I am looking for heuristics so I might abandon games sooner? I have not tried IGE, so that might help.

If you want to make a good map, you have to make it without testing it. What are you testing for that you can't ascertain from Step 3. above?

Will IGE work well for placing/moving natural wonders? I was think that a Pangaea start with all warmongering neighbors would very interesting, but I would make the map up in three variants. Deity+ would remove a lux or resource. Deity would be unmodified. Not-Deity would add a lux and resource -- or maybe Kilimanjaro?

Is that the sort of the thing people would be interested in?

This sounds like the resulting maps would all be too easy. I personally don't want to make the maps 'fantasyland' easy, like DCLs #20 and #25. Try the next CDG and tell me if you want something easier than that!

This is a request to map makers. I'm putting this in spoilers so, if it ends up in the CDG, people will only know if they decided to read this spoiler.

That's not something that I'm personally interested, either. But I'm only the caretaker host. If others want to step forward and help out, and have maps rolled according to the specifications you spoiled out, then so be it.

NOTICE: The next CDG will be posted in the next hour!

 

[Blatc]

I have a Culture easy or medium map I'd submitted to Consentient that we can use in the near future. As the current map is marked easy, and mine is either Easy or Medium, I'd suggest we get a harder one for #7. As such, I am offering my map for #8 or #9.

That said, I just remember I posted a Spain map previously for an example thread on illiterate theory and at least one person couldn't open it (map packs?). If anyone understands this issue, please let me know if it's something I can fix, or if I'll need to roll a new map under different settings (and what those are).

 

[Grendeldef]

I quote myself here not because I'm an obnoxious prikc but because this actually is better placed here than in the Zulu CDG thread.
Surely not the ultimate solution to all problems but after thinking it few secs this might actually work to a degree and if nothing else it'd give the self-proclaimed overlord some time to make suggestions for alternative wording before anyone jumps into the game.
In the latter case a pm would in theory work as well but I'd welcome all the extra pairs of eyes for spotting potential problems besides it'd be much better if the problems could be solved in advance by the community rather than by an individual afterwards.

One tiny solution could be that the save file would not be included in the OP in first 24/48h or so. Let there be an achi proofing period before people start playing where possible disagreements could be resolved before the individual interpretations kick in in various forms.

---

Keeping it with the theme of ambiguity I'm not denying of being an obnoxious prikc but that wasn't the reason for quoting myself, rather it was lazyness.

 

[Blatc]

I quote myself here not because I'm an obnoxious prikc but because this actually is better placed here than in the Zulu CDG thread.
Surely not the ultimate solution to all problems but after thinking it few secs this might actually work to a degree and if nothing else it'd give the self-proclaimed overlord some time to make suggestions for alternative wording before anyone jumps into the game.
In the latter case a pm would in theory work as well but I'd welcome all the extra pairs of eyes for spotting potential problems besides it'd be much better if the problems could be solved in advance by the community rather than by an individual afterwards.




---

Keeping it with the theme of ambiguity I'm not denying of being an obnoxious prikc but that wasn't the reason for quoting myself, rather it was lazyness.

Agreed

...
I will suggest that the current host makes a 'teaser' post in this thread 2-3 days before a new game is to be posted, hinting at what the AI and theme of the game will be (to get us excited to play!) and posting a rough copy of the achievements to refine so that, when the map is posted, there is less confusion.

 

[Grendeldef]

Yeah, I thought I had seen something similar somewhere - still a good idea I think

 

[stormtrooper412]

So in a way, what I did with one of the CDG maps a while ago was a good idea. Heh

 

[Grendeldef]

Yups; I don't think I had the time to comment that earlier any more than Blatc's proposal so let me put it here - I highly support any practical method of pre-screening the achis in public for some reasonable period of time like 24/48h (different time zones may have an effect that the 24h would be too short for any meaningful discussion).

Without thinking too much of this I'd prefer posting the CDG OP in appropriate time but attaching the save file & possibly rewording the achis/special rules ~48hrs/after that when the achis are clear & agreed upon. The pre-game discussion should take place here not to pollute the actual CDG thread which may become problematic I admit.

The other option is to present main features like civ, map type, special rules etc and proposed achis here and naturally the discussion would take place here as well.


I'd hope that the discussion would mainly concern the wording/interpretation of any proposed achis rather than 'I don't like that achi, lets get rid of it' as long as the achis are not directly against using UA/UU/UB as generally agreed few CDGs ago.
The host should have the liberty to invent any seemingly weird achi as the players are also quite free not to pursue any or all of the achis but if the achis start to become such that no one is playing for them the validity of such is non-existent. Everything within reason which, unfortunately, is impossible to define precicely.

 

[enslingkorp]

Hi, I'm new to this forum but I'm going to post a map for this series because no one else seems like they are going to, OK?

 

[stormtrooper412]

fine by me, I have practically zero time to play out the maps but if you worked out the achievements and target win condition, everything's ok

 

[enslingkorp]

I don't know how to choose achievemtns. Maybe someone else can help do that?

 

[beetle]

Hi, I'm new to this forum but I'm going to post a map for this series because no one else seems like they are going to, OK?

The expectations are pretty high. If you share a map, it should probably have some compelling angle to. You might thing people would grateful for anything, but I know I want a curated map that is significantly more interesting than what I can expect to roll for myself.

Consentient did not like my Byzantium map. I could post that one, or let ST decide. Something might be better than nothing, but on the other hand, I think I have been disappointed with every shared map outside of the GoTM/DCL/CDG series.

 

[budweiser]

The expectations are pretty high. If you share a map, it should probably have some compelling angle to. You might thing people would grateful for anything, but I know I want a curated map that is significantly more interesting than what I can expect to roll for myself.

Consentient did not like my Byzantium map. I could post that one, or let ST decide. Something might be better than nothing, but on the other hand, I think I have been disappointed with every shared map outside of the GoTM/DCL/CDG series.

You have high standards, which is fine.

I like any shared map better than one I roll and play myself. I can't even motivate myself to finish a 'solo' map. I much prefer the discussion and comparrison.