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CDG Series Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Blatc, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. DanQuayle

    DanQuayle Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages:
    300
    I now have a potent map for my China Chu-Ko-Nu challenge (AMBalance Pangea) and can post it September 9.
    I will playtest it and see how it goes.

    Achievements (numbers subject to change)

    • Get 6 Composite Bowmen before
      Turn 60 (3pts)
      Turn 65 (2pts)
      Turn 70 (1pt)
    • Research Machinery before
      Turn 90 (3pts)
      Turn 100 (2pts)
      Turn 110 (1pt)
    • Connect X cities to your capital with roads
      12 cities (3pts)
      9 cities (2pts)
      6 cities (1pt)
    • Get X Chu-Ko-Nu with the Range promotion (can be upgraded)
      10 Chu-Ko-Nu (3pts)
      8 Chu-Ko-Nu (2pts)
      6 Chu-Ko-Nu (1pt)
    • Finish the game with X Chu-Ko-Nu (can be upgraded)
      20 Chu-Ko-Nu (3pts)
      15 Chu-Ko-Nu (2pts)
      10 Chu-Ko-Nu (1pt)
    • Win the game before
      Turn 150 (5pts)
      Turn 160 (4pts)
      Turn 175 (3pts)
      Turn 200 (2pts)
      Turn 250 (1pt)
     
  2. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Nice! Thanks! I would just suggest spreading out the numbers for the achievement points more. So instead of a fixed interval for most of them, more of geometric progression, like you did with turn to win. Otherwise the difference between 1 point and 3 points tends to be too trivial. Number of cities is good though. The single point achievements (as I understand the idea) should be “easy” while still steering the game. Here’s the tweak I would like:

    • Get 6 Composite Bowmen before
      Turn 60 (3pts)
      Turn 70 (2pts)
      Turn 90 (1pt)
    • Research Machinery before
      Turn 90 (3pts)
      Turn 110 (2pts)
      Turn 140 (1pt)
    • Connect X cities to your capital with roads
      12 cities (3pts)
      9 cities (2pts)
      6 cities (1pt)
    • Get X Chu-Ko-Nu with the Range promotion (can be upgraded)
      12 Chu-Ko-Nu (3pts)
      9 Chu-Ko-Nu (2pts)
      6 Chu-Ko-Nu (1pt)
    • Finish the game with X Chu-Ko-Nu (can be upgraded)
      20 Chu-Ko-Nu (3pts)
      12 Chu-Ko-Nu (2pts)
      8 Chu-Ko-Nu (1pt)
    • Win the game before
      Turn 150 (5pts)
      Turn 165 (4pts)
      Turn 185 (3pts)
      Turn 215 (2pts)
      Turn 270 (1pt)
     
  3. DanQuayle

    DanQuayle Prince

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    300
    Ok, I will relax the 1pt achievements a bit, but maybe not as much as T90 CBs or T140 Machinery. I mean the point of that game will be to beeline these techs.
    Also, the map will be on the easy side.
     
  4. Maxattack

    Maxattack Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
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    67
    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Cool, I was looking forward to that game !

    Man, T90 Machinery will be a challenge, my personal best is T98...

    I'm also looking forward to that wide India game that was mentioned but it seems it won't happen soon...
     
  5. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Man, I don't think I've ever gotten a sub-100 Machinery. That's already impossible for me
     
  6. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Thanks. Looks like people are hoping you might relax the 3pt achievements some too! The main thing I like to see is that there is fair bit of spread (and I like to see parity between the relative difficulty of items that earn the same score, but I think you have that part covered).
     
  7. Maxattack

    Maxattack Chieftain

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    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    I just saw the upper limits for the achievements :

    6 CBs before T90 is ridiculously easy, that's not worth a point... I think 60/65/70 was great and totally doable.

    If you hit Machinery after T140 you can basically say goodbye to your CKN rush, you'll be irrelevant before your army gets to your first target. I think 90/100/110 is good too : T90 is pretty hard but that's what will differentiate the good from the best ^^ T100 is basically your target when you plan a XB rush and T110 is doable without being too easy.
     
  8. hiawafer

    hiawafer Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
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    If you dont reach Machinery before turn 110 you are doing it wrong
     
  9. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    T110 is very good for Immortal, but probably too late for Deity and since I don't really play Deity anymore, I have likely forgotten the fine details
     
  10. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Frederick, MD
    OT but Aspyr is having some 20th Anniversary sale. I picked up the Scrambled Map Packs for a total of 82¢.
     
  11. consentient

    consentient Domination!

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
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    3,330
    Anyone want me to roll a new map?

    I was thinking Mayan for some interesting achievements. Y'all would have to help me out with those, but I can roll a decent map on my own.
     
  12. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    It has been quite interesting to me that crafting good achievements has been trickier than crafting good maps!

    Atlatist buffed XB are not the same as CKN (except that many of them would have logistics at that point) but why not just reuse the achievements from the China? It actually might not be a bad thing to have the archer UA civs back-to-back so as to compare experiences while the games are fresh in everyone’s mind.
     
  13. Blatc

    Blatc Prince

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    Feb 24, 2015
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    449
    Yes and Yes to Mayans.
    I'll help with achievements but suggest that you first come up with the overall 'theme', if you will. I'd suggest Culture VC, as I think that gets the most value out of Mayan UA.
     
  14. Blatc

    Blatc Prince

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    I think reusing or using similar achievements for somewhat of a comparison game would work better with a UU from Machinery or Chivalry. Mayans are drastically different, whereas England would be the closest to copy the CKN game.
     
  15. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Jul 7, 2014
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    Not that I've played all of them, but I've most liked challenges with two main choices of VC. So I'd like to suggest Domination or Science.

    I DON'T want to re-use achievements.

    As an outline, I propose something like:-

    1. Number of cities

    - 1 city = lots of points
    - 2 cities = bit less
    - 3 cities = bit less
    - 4-5 cities = least
    - 6 - 8 cities = bit more
    - 9 -12 cities = bit more
    = 13+ cities = lots (but less than 1 city)

    so as to give people a clear choice between 'classic Pacal' (the AI often has <4 cities) or 'wide Pacal'

    2. Population

    3. Turn of victory (two separate scales)

    Dom
    - <150 = max points
    - 150-200
    - 201-250
    - 251-300
    - 301+

    Sci
    - <200 = max points
    - 201-230
    - 231-260
    - 261-280
    - 281-300

    4. #Wonders built or captured (X for built, less for capture)

    5. Style points (two separate scales)

    Dom (might need a modifier to stop the total being too high?)
    - Cities captured before Medieval = 1 pt
    - Cities captured before Renaissance = 2 pts
    - Cities captured before Industrial = 3 pts
    - Cities captured from Modern onwards = 4 pts

    So as to encourage later warfare, which I will make a map that practically guarantees it, also

    Sci
    - GS produced
    - Growth wonders built (an additional score beyond what was in 4, special for ToA, HG, etc)
    - Size of capital
    - # of RAs signed
    - something else?​

    That's not firm. If anyone has better ideas or can help shape it, go for it. I'll leave it with you guys to refine and I'll get to rolling a map. It will be NQ Pangaea, low sea level (my trademark), random opponents, and I'll choose a map that looks like it will give a HARD game, OK?
     
  16. vadalaz

    vadalaz King

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    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    954
    1. I like this
    2. With population, do you mean the # of citizens or the demographics score? I think I'd prefer the latter but I have no idea how to scale that. Maybe top points should require the equivalent of having three 40-pop cities or so?
    3. Looks good
    4. Looks good, maybe 1 point for every 3 wonders built and every 5 captured, and then cap it at 5 points?
    5. For DomV, how about something like this:

    1 point: Capture at least 2 cities before Renaissance
    2 points: Same as above and capture at least 3 more before Industrial
    3 points: Same as above and capture at least 4 more before Modern
    4 points: Same as above and capture at least 5 more from Modern onwards

    Or was the idea to capture everything in Modern+ rather than progressing slowly through the ages? Could also start the progression with just 1 captured city before Renaissance and then 2 before Indu etc. instead of starting at 2.

    SV: How about this?

    Plant X Great Person improvements:
    1 point for 3
    2 points for 6
    3 points for 9
    4 points for 12

    That makes use of Mayan UA and could promote different playstyles, like a "no bulbs" game, or having some wars to farm GGs and steal enemy GPs, or going Piety to get a ton of your own Prophets. I think it would have decent synergy with OCC as well, since OCC bulbs suck anyway.
     
  17. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Nice thinking, vadalaz.

    Population. I don't know of any way OTHER than the Demographics window to find population. What is the difference?

    How about:

    50-60m = 1 pt
    60-70m = 2 pts
    70-80m = 3pts
    80-100m= 4pts
    101m+ = 5 pts

    Wonders. Your suggestion looks good to me.

    Science idea is nice. I'm down with that.

    Domination = I want to encourage late-game warfare, since there has been far too much XB abuse lately. So I don't mind what ends up being the rubric as long as Modern and later is scored higher than Industrial, which is scored higher than Renaissance. Pre-Renaissance should be much less valuable.
     
  18. consentient

    consentient Domination!

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
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    I've made the thread and the map, but will hold off putting the map up until at least 2 people confirm these achievements:-

    1. Number of cities

    - 1 city = 5 pts
    - 2 cities = 4 pts
    - 3 cities = 3 pts
    - 4-8 cities = 2 pts
    - 9 -12 cities = 3 pts
    = 13+ cities = 4 pts

    2. Population

    50-60m = 1 pt
    60-70m = 2 pts
    70-80m = 3pts
    80-100m= 4pts
    101m+ = 5 pts

    3. Turn of victory (two separate scales)

    Dom
    - <150 = 5 pts
    - 150-200 = 4 pts
    - 201-250 = 3 pts
    - 251-300 = 2 pts
    - 301+ = 1 pt

    Sci
    - <200 = 5 pts
    - 201-230 = 4 pts
    - 231-260 = 3 pts
    - 261-280 = 2 pts
    - 281-300 = 1 pt

    4. #Wonders built or captured (1 pt for every 3 built, and for every 5 captured; capped at 5 pts)

    5. Style points (two separate scales)

    Dom
    - Capitals captured before Medieval = 1/8 pt
    - Capitals captured before Renaissance = 1/4 pt
    - Capitals captured before Industrial = 1/2 pt
    - Capitals captured from Modern onwards = 1 pt for each

    Sci
    Plant X Great Person improvements:
    1 point for 3
    2 points for 6
    3 points for 9
    4 points for 12


    [For Domination,
    Achievements 3 and 5 have a kind of inverse relationship, so it's not possible to get maximum points in all categories, but there are more points on offer in 5, so the maximum there is 7. Capturing all capitals in Modern and finishing before T250 allows for 10 points across the two categories.]
     
  19. vadalaz

    vadalaz King

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    Everything looks good to me. :)
     
  20. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I second that!
     

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