Celts or Iroquois?

[mdm]

They're quite similar Civs... the pros and cons:

Iroquois:

Pro:

Mounted Warrior - 3 attack, fast, 30 shields, upgrade to knight
Commercial - Gold can offset growth unhappiness, gold is more versatile
Only need horses; No horses, may still build nice army with iron

Con:

Commercial - Effect doesn't show fast
Mounted Warrior - 1 defense (is this a real problem?)

Celts:

Pro:

Religious - short anarchy, cheap temples, temples can offset growth unhappiness
Gallic Swordsman - 3 attack, 2 defense, fast

Con:

Gallic Swordsman - 40 shields
Need iron; Can't build nice army without it really.

It takes longer to mobilize a good military with Brennus, but does the religious trait make up or that?

Hiawatha can upgrade his mounted warriors to knights though (and then to cavalry)... a great advantage I think.

I'm leaning toward Hiawatha.

Whoops, forgot to make it a poll. Oh well, then maybe people won't vote without explaining why.

 

[MeteorPunch]

I think Celts are the best "beginner" civ, while Iroquois are much better overall.

Mounted Warrior are cheaper and just as effective in the right hands.

The COM trait lends itself well to large empires and wealth/science buildup vs. REL happiness. With the extra commerce, happiness is easily maintained.

 

[Tomoyo]

It takes longer to mobilize a good military with Brennus, but does the religious trait make up or that?

I think the Commercial trait is one of the best, while Religious is one of, if not, the worst. I love the Iroquois, and still like the Celts, but that's just because of the Agricultural trait.

 

[vmxa]

Iroq for me. I have no real use for Rel trait.

 

[madviking]

Iroquois, comm. is good for the backstrech of a game. and agr. is good for the beginng. once you know how to play, you don't need rel.

 

[Own]

I say the Celts. Their great magic is to conquer most of the world, and once you've been satisfied, imediatly become a peaceful builder and go for space or diplo. Extra defense most certainly matters, as spearmen won't keep up with the Gallics, so they'll be your only defensive units for towns you conquer. worth 10 more shields a piece.

 

[madviking]

also, Gallics into MI loses a movemnent point, which sucks

 

[Lord Parkin]

also, Gallics into MI loses a movemnent point, which sucks

You could always just not upgrade them...

 

[MeteorPunch]

You could always just not upgrade them...

yes but MW's upgrade into knights, which are very sexy!

 

[Lord Parkin]

Uh.......... ooooooooookay........

At any rate, I was talking about Gallic Swordsmen, not Mounted Warriors.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Standard or bigger: Iroquois. Better in the long run.
Small or tiny: Celts. I'll I need to do is build Gallic Swords and I'll win.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Small or tiny: Celts. I'll I need to do is build them and I'll win.

Uh... you're not making much sense here!

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Fixed.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Okay.

But seriously, is it really that easy? I'm sure that at least on the higher difficulty levels, it wouldn't be this simple...

 

[Ginger_Ale]

I have done it on a small pangea on Demigod, so it isn't that hard. Go to Monarchy ASAP, revolt, and build up Gallic Swords. You'd be suprised how effective they are - retreat is a huge lifesaver. My neighbor, Rome, even fell quickly.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Especially on the higher levels, it's that simple - Iroquois.

The UUs are about the same to me; both are nice, but come a bit early for my taste.

But COM vs. REL is a no-brainer.
If you're not REL, temples are more expensive (how many do you build anyway?), you will have maximum 7 turns more of Anarchy, and you better stay in Republic (what you do in 95% of all games anyway).
No COM: No Alphabet to start with. Less commerce in any city. More corruption. For me, the strongest trait at all. Even above AGR.

 

[Tomoyo]

Wasn't your favourite trait Seafaring?

 

[Own]

I never thought an advanced player would like seafaring except on archi. On anything else, it forces your capital to a coastal start, putting the capital in a bad position. The extra gold may help a little, maximum 200 gpt difference. On continents, the actual sailing helps a little. Why do you like it (if what Tomoyo says is true)? You've probably got a good reason, I'd just like to hear it .

 

[madviking]

seafaring sucks on pangea. if you get a central position you'll have less corruption.

 

[Tomoyo]

I'm not sure if he said it was his favourite, but it was in the thread "Is Agricultural really that good" or something like that, and I think he said something along the lines of "civ is not just based on growth" and said that Sea was his favourite trait. (or was it Com?)

BTW Seafaring is my second favourite trait, except on Pangaeae, and then Commercial is second with Seafaring third.