CFC Off Topic Turned Me Into a Fascist

[Quackers]

Your argument may as well apply to all poor not just poor blacks - suffice to say Whites arent't always rich and powerful you get poor ones too. The English system in the 18th century was by far fairer and more humane than any continental country at the time - common Englishman had to know by law to use a longbow this meant that the landed gentry couldn't tax them to the hilt or the work them like a slave theirs a direct inheritance their and thats gun rights .

I may as well cry over the Romans taking over Britain or the Normans invading us in 1066 but I don't.

 

[Cutlass]

Criminal Justice Magazine
Spring 2003
Volume 18 Number 1

Race, the Death Penalty, and Wrongful Convictions

By Karen F. Parker, Mari A. DeWees, and Michael L. Radelet

Racial discrimination has long been recognized as a part of the American criminal justice system. Studies of racial bias have tended to focus on the flaws and failures within the legal process itself, rather than on extralegal factors that may also be involved. But just as the literature has definitively established that it is true that racial discrimination affects everything from arrest to voir dire to sentencing, so is it true that racial discrimination has origins and explanations outside of the legal system that contribute to the failures within that system. In this article, we investigate and expand upon our previous efforts to offer a structural explanation of racial discrimination’s impact upon the legal system. (See Karen F. Parker et al., Racial Bias and Conviction of the Innocent, in Wrongly Convicted: When Justice Fails 114 (Saundra Westervelt & John Humphrey eds. 2001).) To do so, we specifically examine the nexus among wrongful convictions, capital cases, and Hubert Blalock’s power-threat hypothesis. Further, we provide a snapshot of the changing perceptions of the American public on issues of wrongful conviction and capital punishment, suggesting that these changes may well affect the political and judicial actions that will influence racial discrimination within our justice system in years to come.

...

Our study provides evidence of a racial bias in the operations of the criminal justice system, particularly in regard to the death penalty. As in the previous studies reviewed here, we find racial disparities in wrongful convictions among death row cases. Moreover, we also find that cultural, political, and economic differences among regions of the country may well factor into the relationship between race and wrongful convictions. Specifically, we posit that blacks are more likely to face wrongful conviction in the South than whites and other racial and ethnic groups. Additional research is undoubtedly needed to better understand the nexus between race and wrongful conviction within the larger structural context, and we urge scholars to consider regional differences that produce racial discrimination and unequal treatment under the law.

http://www.abanet.org/crimjust/spring2003/death_penalty.html

Whether intended or not, a variety of seemingly “race neutral” policies have
contributed to growing racial disparity. Due to the intersection of racially
skewed policing and sentencing policies, the federal crack cocaine mandatory
sentencing laws, for example, have produced highly disproportionate rates of
incarceration for low-level offenses. Similarly, school zone drug laws produce
severe racial effects due to housing patterns, whereby drug offenses
committed near the urban areas that contain many communities of color are
prosecuted more harshly than similar offenses in rural communities
populated largely by whites.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/rd_stateratesofincbyraceandethnicity.pdf

 

[Quackers]

I don't take notice of so called "social sciences" and nonsense like that. It is Cultural Marxist manifestation within the education system - its more political they just want to try and fit the world into their worldview.

 

[Cutlass]

I don't take notice of so called "social sciences" and nonsense like that. It is Cultural Marxist manifestation within the education system - its more political they just want to try and fit the world into their worldview.

in other words they disagree with your preconceived notions.

 

[Ecofarm]

Can I get a comment on this?

Does socialism not strive to create a classless society?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I call em like I see em, not like they dream to be. Excuse me for not gulping propaganda sunshine while having my head stuck in the clouds. I support various socialist measures, but I'm not a disciple of any ideology.

Is capitalism not entirely dependent on a structure of privileged haves and dependent have-nots?

No. It's dependant on a the free and informed exchange of goods and labor. It's probably most dependant on eduation to promote an informed consumer and fair regulation to protect against fraud and discrimination.



People should leave the utopian populist bullcrap for the pulpit and look at the world for what it really is. It's pretty amazing when someone eats every last scrap of one set of rhetoric, but looks at the other side with cruel and unusual distain. Tone down the "us and them" just a little bit, jeez. Does half the world really need to be a horrible monster for you to care about anything?? Being so amazingly partisan is really no different than being racist or sexist; at such an extreme it is simple blind bigotry.

It looks solid to me...



Note: any "you" pronouns mean "anyone". I've been working on changing "you" to "one" and "them", but it is an old habit. Just because someone sparked my thoughts does not mean I'm talking to them when I use "you"... what a crappy habit to use "you" as a pronoun for "anyone", grr.

 

[Tekee]

Depends on where you go to school. In school is hardly allowed anything but liberal views. Since they want us to learn that poverty causes violence, poverty is the root cause of most problems.
Since america is not doing enough to alleviate poverty it is also at the root cause of the problems.
Countries like Sweden are the greatest country in the world since they have free healthcare, education, welfare. So poverty is alleviated.
But in school there is no differing viewpoints about this question, it is without question poverty. Proof that Sweden is the best? It regularly tops the lists of "Greatest (blank)"

Though we do not ask, why do our social housing, it is given to them clean, but in a year it looks like another ghetto and we have on the news, that this new social hosuing sector is now a dangerzone. Poverty is the problem...
Despite giving them a free house (combined with wealthy welfare) poverty is still an issue?
It is like giving an uncivilized a house and expecting him to know how to use everything and keeping it clean. We need to teach them how to live...
In Soviet Union there were laws against parasitism. A broad term but generally means it is illegal to take from the system but not offer anything back. Punishment was like 2 years in GULAG, work camp.
I think we give too much and expect too little back. If we keep giving we are only giving them more nice houses to turn into ghettos... we need to stop them and their ghettos before we give them a free house.

 

[Traitorfish]

Your argument may as well apply to all poor not just poor blacks - suffice to say Whites arent't always rich and powerful you get poor ones too. The English system in the 18th century was by far fairer and more humane than any continental country at the time - common Englishman had to know by law to use a longbow this meant that the landed gentry couldn't tax them to the hilt or the work them like a slave theirs a direct inheritance their and thats gun rights .

The longbow had fallen out of significant use by the 18h century, and there were certainly no laws in place demanding its use. What's more, those laws- when they were actually in place!- were never intended to encourage self-defence among the populace; indeed, they were issued by an absolute monarch, and only applied to that minority of the peasant population who were actually free citizens.
This is nit-picking, of course, and the argument over English precedents to American gun laws is a complex topic, but I felt it necessary to correct a few of your factual errors. Because I'm a nerd like that.

I may as well cry over the Romans taking over Britain or the Normans invading us in 1066 but I don't.

It's worth noting, at this point, that the English sent around 800 years crying about the Norman Invasion. It was seen as a major turning point, the abandonment of the often-lionised (and half-imagined) proto-parliamentary democracy of the Saxon kings and the aboption of continental-style absolute monarchy. The "Norman yoke" was a major part of the English national mythology, particularly in the Whiggish view of history, and appears prominently in English folklore, particularly the stories of Robin Hood, and was ressurected in romantic works like Ivanhoe. It was only forgotten in the late 19th century when the focus of British class politics shifted from the older rivalry between the "Norman aristocrats" of the gentry and the "English yeomen" of the bourgeois and middle classes, to the new conflict between the working class and the wealth-holding classes as a whole. The reason, in short, that you do not "cry" over the topic is because our cultural has resolved the issues generated by that event, not because it is or was irrelevent. The same cannot be said of America and slavery.

 

[Quackers]

The longbow established a precedent and that is you cannot damage the average man on the peasant too much otherwise they'd revolt. This led to a "free" middle class and enabled Britain to avoid revolution and evolve into a democracy. The social contract betwen gentry and the working man was due to that wonderful bow - it should be a national symbol of Britain. It may of been gone by the 17th century but its effects were definitly felt.

Well African-Americans should work out it out and stop crying about it! Isn't it obvious that Whites are very sorry indeed for what their ancestors did and are acively implementing policies which discriminate against their own kind to benefit the ordinary black guy in America. We English were just dominated by an unapologetic Norman aristocracy during an idea of brainlessness and unenlightenement.

 

[Hygro]

I think some of you need to actually meet some black people

 

[Quackers]

I think some of you need to actually meet some black people

I knew one black guy in my school. He used a Caribean accent sometimes and did stereotypical things.

I remember when I was in my class with my best pal whose a Jew (YUP SEE HOW LIBERAL I AM???) and my black friend and his Vietnam-descended friend were talking and they said to my m8. "Your one of us" or somethign I think he meant as in minority although I was a minority in that room. They seem to be more race-obsessed than Whites in fact he was a smart guy but he couldn't be bothered. That is my experiance of Black folk. More or less a neutral view of'em.

 

[Zardnaar]

Can't blame whitey for everything. Over here pool schools are disadvantaged but they get extra fundingfrom the government to make up for it. Here we have Maori instead of blacks, and they are better off than blacks in the USA.

One of my friends lived in a mostly Maori area. whites were a minority at junior year at high school. Come senior year and whites outnumbered Maori because most dropped out. No one made them drop out and the school is free to attend and my friend was Dux for the year. One of the Maoris I knew from up north grew up in a simialr situation and what he said was the Maori culture doesn't value an education as if you are a male being stauch is more important and the lingering effects of a warrior culture are still there. The Maori females outperform the Maoris at school.

Where I grew up it was hugely white with very few polynesians and a smattering of Chinese. The Chinese were also discriminated against back in the day having to pay 500 pounds ($20K approx in todays money) to move here with limited access to jobs in a white anglo saxon colony. The Maoris at my school more or less done the same as everyone else. Some failed, some excelled, one joined the SAS, another became a cop. However it was a very white area and they essentially had the same culture as everyone else although they went to Maori preschool and participated in cultural events at the local Marae (meeting house). It was also one of the poorest parts of the country.

The north island Maori tribes were traditionally warriors while the South Island tribes were more farmers and the North Island ones raided them. You might causally make jokes about Maoris or whatever but done south it worked. The north island ones I spoke to liked it better down south as there was alot less racial tension and BS, and the gangs down here are more or less tame compared to parts of say Auckland or rural Waikato. Note that down here it tends to be rural, conservative (by NZ standards anyway)and outside the cities the right wing parties win the seats most of the time and some have always voted National for 70+ years.

No one is seriously discriminating against anyone both in law and in practice. You can't change a culture of failure or a culture totally different to yours without being called a racist or whatever. Thankfully its not as bad as the USA in that regard with ghettos and the like.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I call em like I see em, not like they dream to be. Excuse me for not gulping propaganda sunshine while having my head stuck in the clouds. I support various socialist measures, but I'm not a disciple of any ideology.

What you are "seeing" to make your calls is not representative of what proper socialism is. There's a reason we call them deformed worker's states. As I've said myriad times, socialism is meant to form in an advanced capitalist society, not in a backwards peasant country. You cannot say that extant socialism is representative of what socialism "is" without ignoring basic facts about socialist ideology and theory.

No. It's dependant on a the free and informed exchange of goods and labor.

That is the free market. It is separate from capitalism. Capitalism has certainly existed without the free market, and the free market has and can exist without capitalism. You should stop equating the two.

It's probably most dependant on eduation to promote an informed consumer and fair regulation to protect against fraud and discrimination.

But it is at heart a structured system which depends on the private accumulation of capital in the hands of a few, and their continued re-investment of that capital to "advance" society. It cannot exist without this, as it is the defining aspect of capitalism. Take that away, and it ceases to be capitalism.

People should leave the utopian populist bullcrap for the pulpit and look at the world for what it really is. It's pretty amazing when someone eats every last scrap of one set of rhetoric, but looks at the other side with cruel and unusual distain. Tone down the "us and them" just a little bit, jeez. Does half the world really need to be a horrible monster for you to care about anything?? Being so amazingly partisan is really no different than being racist or sexist; at such an extreme it is simple blind bigotry.

What the flying crap are you on about?

And forgive me if I'm bigoted against oppression, I'm clearly such a horrible person for standing against what is wrong.

 

[Lone Wolf]

If big business is so powerful, it basically controls the government, is it right wing or left wing? Or the worst of both?

 

[Quackers]

Socially business is liberal. It paid a big role in getting woman into work and trying to destroy the nuclear family. In economic terms it craves the free-movement of labor across borders so they can lower costs on the backs of the natives. I'd say its worst of both.

 

[Yeekim]

You cannot say that extant socialism is representative of what socialism "is" without ignoring basic facts about socialist ideology and theory.

Can you say what socialism "is" while ignoring socialist practice?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Yes, I can. An idea "exists" you know.

 

[Yeekim]

Yes, I can. An idea "exists" you know.

Then you should explicitly say you speak about "a socialist idea" or "a socialist theory".

 

[jessiecat]

Can you say what socialism "is" while ignoring socialist practice?

Which practice? Where? When? Who?

 

[Lone Wolf]

Which practice? Where? When? Who?

With great sorrow I notice that you disregard the works of our dear Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev, a great theoretician of Marxism-Leninism.

 

[Earthling]

Put up or shut up. Basically, assume I said [citation needed] to all the claims in your post at #353 except that there are a lot of poor whites, and most of the stuff you said later.

Also, let me remind you of the forum rules:

No, it doesn't work the way you think it does. Unless there's a change to get ready to accept a few thousand reports of posts from various posters. In fact, even if there is some sentence that a ten year old could read and know is false, you'd apparently be more likely to get in trouble for calling Cutlass a liar.