CFC Off Topic Turned Me Into a Fascist

[Cheezy the Wiz]

So, Marx was right about one thing and wrong about 10 (including the crux of his ideology). Are we supposed to be impressed?

You said yourself you've never read more than the Communist Manifesto. How can you claim to know more than cursory knowledge of his "ideology?" And, of course, it goes far beyond Marx and his ideas alone, several of which I also don't like. Its not a religion, after all, he was a political theorist, and many of his ideas preceded him, and many of his ideas have been expanded, re-interpreted, or discarded altogether by subsequent thinkers.

Yes a failed, doomed and debunked ideology would work better after everyone is rich. Gratz. Alot of stuff works fine in a homogeneous rich dispersed population; in fact, pretty much anything does. Show me an ideology that doesn't work in a rich, low-density, culturally homogeneous population - instead of one of any that would, and you can be an intellectual; otherwise, the logic is orcish (tm) or, more simply, circular.

Let's see, the ones we've tried are:

1. capitalism
2. capitalism
3. capitalism
4. capitalism
5. capitalism

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

 

[plarq]

Soviet Union is capitalist?

 

[Imperialmajesty]

You said yourself you've never read more than the Communist Manifesto. How can you claim to know more than cursory knowledge of his "ideology?" And, of course, it goes far beyond Marx and his ideas alone, several of which I also don't like. Its not a religion, after all, he was a political theorist, and many of his ideas preceded him, and many of his ideas have been expanded, re-interpreted, or discarded altogether by subsequent thinkers.



Let's see, the ones we've tried are:

1. capitalism
2. capitalism
3. capitalism
4. capitalism
5. capitalism

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Yes, and many countries tried to implement socialism, what is your point? No, I am not advocating the position that there has ever been a truly Socialist country, I am simply saying that every attempt to implement it has been met by failure in one form or another.

Meanwhile, Capitalism has had a far higher success rate in terms of implementation.

I guess my point is this, Socialism, defined as-

"Socialism". Oxford English Dictionary. "1. A theory or policy of social organization which aims at or advocates the ownership and control of the means of production, capital, land, property, etc., by the community as a whole, and their administration or distribution in the interests of all. 2. A state of society in which things are held or used in common."

-Always seems to get diverted at some stage or another, whether by the caprice and/or barbarity of leaders or by other means, while Capitalism has seemingly thrived under adverse conditions.

Another thing is this, the countries of the world that have come closer to the implementation of socialism, the nordic countries, are all universally small in terms of population.

 

[Imperialmajesty]

Soviet Union is capitalist?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

 

[aelf]

Yes, and many countries tried to implement socialism, what is your point? No, I am not advocating the position that there has ever been a truly Socialist country, I am simply saying that every attempt to implement it has been met by failure in one form or another.

Yeah, I'm sure Hitler tried to implement 'socialism' too.

Meanwhile, Capitalism has had a far higher success rate in terms of implementation.

How do you measure this "success"? In terms of trillions of dollars of bailout funds? In terms of persistent widespread poverty?

I guess my point is this, Socialism, defined as-

-Always seems to get diverted at some stage or another, whether by the caprice and/or barbarity of leaders or by other means, while Capitalism has seemingly thrived under adverse conditions.

Another thing is this, the countries of the world that have come closer to the implementation of socialism, the nordic countries, are all universally small in terms of population.

Wait. Where's my cue to laugh? Oh, I guess it's now - ho ho ho!

Now that it's out of the way, let me just say that I pity the square thinking that marks most bourgeois intellectuals. All you talk about is systems, as if everything falls neatly into different categories.

Here's some news that's not exactly news by now: the Soviet and Chinese systems were/are but forms of state capitalism, meant to fast-track both countries to an industrialised stage. But it seems some of you know that already. And, certainly, there are deep rooted problems with their philosophies and methods. But while you of the old world are content to argue endlessly about one system versus another, we talk about a living struggle. Socialism is struggle.

We are talking about justice as struggle. Read that, liberals.

 

[Yeekim]

Let's see, the ones we've tried are:

1. capitalism
2. capitalism
3. capitalism
4. capitalism
5. capitalism

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

If the theory says it is possible to create Philosopher's Stone by fermenting milk, but every time you set out to do this, you end up with yoghurt, what conclusion would you make?

 

[Hygro]

If the theory says it is possible to create Philosopher's Stone by fermenting milk, but every time you set out to do this, you end up with yoghurt, what conclusion would you make?

That yogurt causes immortality.

 

[Yeekim]

That yogurt causes immortality.

Get yerself a cookie for creativity...

 

[Merkinball]

Sorry, but I don't get your point. Please be more direct?

The reason is not poverty in itself but inequality. In Djibouti, the standard of living is not very high for everybody. However, people in the ghettos of, say, Detroit, see everyday the prosperity and good life of other Americans, even other Detroiters. Thus, the cycle of crime begins. It might be interpreted as jealousy, but then again, it is jealousy for a better life, for better health care. - HC

There is more inequality in Djibouti. Rich people live in Djibouti too. People in Djibouti, particularly in the city, see prosperity and good life just like people in Detroit. But the cycle of crime hasn't begun.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Soviet Union is capitalist?

The comment was made in the context of Western Industrial powers. Thus Russia is excluded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

Only anarchists and a few wacko Trots use that term.

If the theory says it is possible to create Philosopher's Stone by fermenting milk, but every time you set out to do this, you end up with yoghurt, what conclusion would you make?

The problem is that we haven't used milk yet. For the umpteenth time, it must begin in an industrialized, capitalist nation. That is why I keep saying that we've never tried socialism before. Its like you don't even read what I write! When Stalin thought he could create socialism in a non-industrialized nation by rushing through capitalist industrialization and expected to get similar results to having actually gone through the capitalist phase, he was wrong.

 

[Merkinball]

That's okay though. Because we'll have TRUE socialism when Cheezy owns and operates a business run on his socialist ideals.

 

[Quackers]

1. I don't think you mean where
2. The Russian Revolution is alive (more or less) if you mean governmental systems. It's the economic system that's different.
3. I'm not sure what you meant by "national socialist" revolution
4. The Maoist government is still there in governmental terms. (Not economic, but definitely governmental)

Do people in China or Russia vote freely? Definitely not.
5. The English Civil War was not about freedom. Oliver Cromwell was one of the most autocratic rulers in all English history. If you mean the Glorious Revolution, that was simply the replacement of one inbred king with another. I think you mean the English Bill of Rights.

Your quote on your sig tells a lot about your own self m8.

1) Russian revolution founded the Soviet Union - the Soviet Union collapsed. Isn't that the most damning indictment of a system of Government ever, it can't even sustain itself. Commuism is shown to be evil and it was defeated.
2)National-socialist revolution is the term given by Hitler to mark the rise of the National-socialist workers party during the 20s. I don't like saying this but EDUCATE YOURSELF GO READ A BOOK and all that!
3)The ideas of the Maoist government have been destroyed in favor of economic freedom once a suffiecient middle class is achieved within the next 50 years democracy will happen - it happend in Chile.
4) American revolutionary war was described at the time of a Civil War thats what I''m referring too. Again plenty of Libs say this too me GO READ A BOOK AND EDUCATE YOURSELF.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And North-Korea call itself a Democracy.

Pro-Tip: lets not use loonie dictators to tell us how to label stuff.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

That's okay though. Because we'll have TRUE socialism when Cheezy owns and operates a business run on his socialist ideals.

Why thank you for addressing my points. I'll be sure to answer yours at the appropriate time.

 

[RedRalph]

1) Russian revolution founded the Soviet Union - the Soviet Union collapsed. Isn't that the most damning indictment of a system of Government ever, it can't even sustain itself. Commuism is shown to be evil and it was defeated.

It's shown to be evil because the USSR collapsed? Is the UK's system of government indicted because the Bristish empire collapsed? Is Capitalism indicted since last October?

and you're telling other people to educate themselves

 

[aelf]

If the theory says it is possible to create Philosopher's Stone by fermenting milk, but every time you set out to do this, you end up with yoghurt, what conclusion would you make?

What if some say nothing about a Philosopher's Stone, much less anything about fermenting milk to get it?

 

[Quackers]

It's shown to be evil because the USSR collapsed? Is the UK's system of government indicted because the Bristish empire collapsed? Is Capitalism indicted since last October?

and you're telling other people to educate themselves

USSR collapsed because it could not sustain its anti-human anti-freedom existence. It is evil because during its regime it killed about 20 milion of its own people and ruined millions of more lives thats why it is evil not because it collapsed.

Maybe you should look at my sentence structure and the general layout of my post to determine what I meant.

 

[Dachs]

Why did this turn from a fascism thread into a marxism/socialism/who the hell even knows thread?

 

[Zardnaar]

Dachs its CFC off topic, are you surprised. Communism only works on a small scale withen a capitalistic society when a small group of people with similar ideals go and live on or found a commune. You will never have equality amoung all humans as theres always going to be someone a bit smarter, stronger, faster, or ambitious than the smuck next to them.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Your quote on your sig tells a lot about your own self m8.

1) Russian revolution founded the Soviet Union - the Soviet Union collapsed. Isn't that the most damning indictment of a system of Government ever, it can't even sustain itself. Commuism is shown to be evil and it was defeated.
2)National-socialist revolution is the term given by Hitler to mark the rise of the National-socialist workers party during the 20s. I don't like saying this but EDUCATE YOURSELF GO READ A BOOK and all that!
3)The ideas of the Maoist government have been destroyed in favor of economic freedom once a suffiecient middle class is achieved within the next 50 years democracy will happen - it happend in Chile.
4) American revolutionary war was described at the time of a Civil War thats what I''m referring too. Again plenty of Libs say this too me GO READ A BOOK AND EDUCATE YOURSELF.

1. I'm not a liberal. Even if I was, I wouldn't be a "Lib"
2. Communism isn't a governmental system. I might make a remark about reading a book, but I won't
3. You could have said something like Mussolini's March on Rome or Hitler's election, but there was never a "National-socialist" Revolution. Again, I might say "Go read a book." But I won't.
4. You are confusing Maoist government with Maoist economics. Maoist government, the thing you were talking about, is still there. And why defend Pinochet? Chile already was a democracy. You're treating it as if it was a dictatorship before.
4. English Civil War refers to something else.