CG6 - Coalition Time

@ jack: No, its not mandatory to declare war now, but now it is mandatory for all our wars to be coalitions. And we have to make one coalition before the end of the Middle Ages, but I'm sure we will.

@ Shillen: I agree on your assesment of the situation. With this much gpt, a horse->knight mass upgrade is almost obvious. Zulus would be a good first target too.

T-Hawk, you're up! :)
 
I'm up, I think. Got it.

Cathedrals aren't worth the cost to build them, especially if we're prosecuting a militaristic game. Simply leaving the luxury slider at 20% if necessary will work, until we conquer the luxury resources for ourselves.

I'll see how we can get our hands on some iron to do a mass horse->knight upgrade. Also, if we get a leader, I'd think we should do Sun Tzu's, as that will make our conquesting significantly easier.
 
Inherited turn:

Run the usual micromanagement, mostly adjusting cities to grow sooner. Population's everything at this point: London can reach 10 shields/turn at size 9, or we can grow it to 12 and reach 15 shields/turn.

Lux tax up one notch to get rid of a half-dozen entertainers, including one in our Forbidden Palace city.

Diplo check: good, no deals left on the table this time. :) I decide to sell Feudalism to Spain for her 140 cash; it isn't a whole lot but it's free money for us. Then that cash is used to rush a library in Richmond (better culture per buck than a temple.)

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110 AD: I think we should try to build Sun Tzu's, since we can't be sure of going to war and actually getting a Leader in time to build it. And believe me, Sunny T's will help tremendously when we do go conquering. Only three other cities are building it so far, and all three are tiny and pathetic.

Where? I'd have to say London, which will max at size 12 quite soon and can work five mined hills then. Often, it's not a good idea to build a wonder in your capital, since it can't use the Palace to carry over if you miss out on the wonder you're building. But that's rarely a problem with Sun Tzu's specifically, since always plenty of other wonders around to swap to.


150 AD: By now, all of the civs have called us up to cancel the alliances against Babylon. So we may as well make peace - and Babylon concedes us two cities! Both have nothing of use and are badly whipped.

170 AD: Our minimum science run on Engineering finishes, and we got it first. Traded to Greece for Monarchy + Theology. Traded to Brennus for his 730 gold.

I set our lone scientist to Printing Press. We could research Chivalry ourselves, but it would take 12 turns to do it without going broke, and I think it's likely someone else will research it before then.


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And that's all that happened. Greece just got Education, but there's no way we're interested in paying monopoly price for it.

Leave Newcastle running max shields to finish the FP - trying to grow beyond 7 won't get it done any sooner. Also make sure London stays on max shields for the wonder. Don't adjust Nottingham this turn - it will complete the horse this turn by growing and auto-picking-shields from a hill. Leave Leeds at size 6 and let it build troops rather than trying to build an aqueduct. York's set to a medieval infantry because it could complete either that or a horse this turn, so may as well build the stronger unit.

All we're waiting for is Chivalry and then we can unload onto the Zulu. There's a dozen horsemen waiting in Newcastle already. Get roads built around Richmond - if we have roads in the right places, we can attack Umtata with medieval infantry and Ulundi and Hlobane with knights all on the first turn of the war - <b>Shock and Awe<b> :)

Next leader can consider researching Chivalry at maximum if you want. Never can tell how long the AIs will take to get to it. I didn't do it since we're not quite ready yet - we could use another dozen horsemen first, and we do need a lot of cash to upgrade them.

We'll have to keep luxuries at 30% for a while, at least until we can conquer or trade for some more luxury resources.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/cg6-250ad.zip
 
2 cities, and we didn't even fight :eek:

Anyone else think that the Greeks are going too fast ? We should probably go after them after we have conquered a nice area around our FP. I agree on not researching chivalry ourselves - the AI's usually get it before education. I can see the Greeks why the Greeks went for education first though as it helps them more.
 
Good work T-Hawk. I'm up, but I will probably not be able to play tonight, probably tomorrow. At the latest, Friday afternoon (still within the 48 hour limit :p) but that's drastic. :)

:mad: They're piling the work on, but I'm still finding time for Civ. :)
 
Sorry guys, its definetely no-go tonight. I have a BIG project due tomorrow, and I, of course, procrastinated.

Definetely tomorrow though. Its Friday, after all. :)
 
OK, here are my (delayed) 10 turns. The war with the Zulus has started, with great success!

[Inherited Turn] Ah, my first look at our empire since my first 20 turns, and I'm happy. It looks like the entire world avoided Chivalry...that's strange. I can research Chivalry at 9 turns/-12. The only way we'd make money is at 11 turns, but that's too much. 12g isn't much, after all. :)

[Turn 1 - 260 AD] :o Ack. I accidentally set Lux at one less then it should have been, and our entire empire riots. Damn! I put it to its proper spot, at 30%, and its all over with. Anyway, the Greeks are a little to free with our territory, but I'll let it slide. Besides this, not much I can do. I just work workers and I'll wait until the rioting stops before I change builds around.

[Turn 2 - 270 AD] I switch two cities to horses; we could use a few more. More working. I do a little math and see that, barring anything drastic, we'll have about 1500g when we finish researching Calvary. Argh, I can never remember the upgrade cost when I need it! I think it was Difference in shields x 2, right? If so, then its 80g per horse upgrade - quite alot. That means we can get 18 horses upgraded with all our cash. Lowering the tech a notch would only give us another 3 horses..so its worth it. :)

[Turn 3 - 280 AD] Greeks and Spanish start Sun Tzu's. Looks like the typical Medeveival cascade could take it out. :( I head online to check the reports about that FP build - screwing up there could be drastic. Opera then crashes. :lol: I try again, with IE. ("Electrical Superstorms..." :lol: ) Finally, after about 10 minutes, I see that the FP is actually to be built, not a prebuild. I guess I should read more carefully. Moving along: I drop science again, to 7 turns. The cost was steadily rising at 5, and I don't want to spend 50gpt to get it. At 7 turns, its only -6, a good price. I can wait.

(InterTurn) Aztecs and Greeks sign MA against Babylon. What appears to be a Greek military stream continues through our territory.

[Turn 4- 290 AD] Two horses built, Oxford riots. A touch of sea spotted across the Aztecan channel; could be promising, I'll suicide towards it next turn. The horse stack in Richmond is at 12. Chivalry is now at 6 turns/-11gpt, probably because Oxford rioted. It will be back on next turn. :)

[Turn 5 - 300 AD] No one has Chivalry yet, which is good. My plan is to sell it around to get MAs. Putting it in an MA package will mean less gpt cost on us and more military help from allies. Chivarly up to 5 turns/-14gpt. Our suicide run to the patch of sea reveals just that - a patch of sea. There may be land north, but looks like we may die pointlessly. If its one of those weird random patches of sea, I'm pissed!

[Turn 6 - 310 AD] Two horsemen built. Our galley lives! His move north reveals more weird sea patch. Damn it! 16 horses in Richmond now. I'm happy - ideally, our army could conquer three Zulu cities on the first turn of the war; not bad.

[Turn 7 - 320 AD] Our galley dies for nothing. Damn sea patch. Ooo! A boost in our science (I think I built a library) changes our Chivarly research to 1 turn/-13gpt. After I get that I'm dropping it to zero and starting to shop around for MAs. Looks like I may see the war after all...:mwaha:

[Turn 8 - 330 AD] We research Invention at min sci, making +150 gpt. The Horseman upgrade is 17 total, costing us 1360g. Not bad. So now we have 17 Knights, 1 Horse, and 2 MIs ready to invade. Time to buy some MAs! There are 6 civs, not including Zulu, so that's 3 MAs. The obvious choice for the first is the Celts: they are strong and they border the Zulu. They refuse it. Damn. I call up the Greeks, our second choice: they are strong and have military in the area. They refuse! That leaves 3 out of these 4: Spain, Aztecs, Celts, and Russia. Fake alliances. The Spanish refuse. The Babylonians do it for free! Alright, that's one. Russia does it for our Iron, so we accept. And finally, the Aztecs do it for Republic. Well, looks like we're going pretty much alone. We'll move in next turn, when all the troops are ready.

[Turn 9 - 340 AD] Our troops are readied. We kill an Archer outside of Umtata and capture a worker. We capture it easily, killing two Impis, getting one of our Knights wounded and the second winning. We keep it. We can either stop our troops one tile outside of Hlobane and attack next turn or attack across a river. I decide to do neither, and get that city later in the war. Ulundi is our next target - its size 8 and should be filled with Impis, quite a battle. Ulundi is also easy. We lose one Knight, kill maybe 4 Impis. Very easy battle. I keep the city and we capture a worker. I send out two Knights to capture Hlobane. I capture it easily, using two Knights across the river and winning. Three cities, not bad for one turn. Blitzkreig!

[Turn 10 - 350 AD] Ulundi riots, I starve it. FP built in Newcastle. :D We move on Swazi. Its size 4, has Pikes, may be slightly tougher. Correction: had one Pike, that killed a Knight and was redlined. It also had an Impi. Two defenders, and this battle was very easy. Swazi falls easily, and we keep it. And that's the end of my turn. Our economy is very good: +212gpt! Just some notes: The war is going very well, just try to get some reinforcements in there, because I can picture 17 Knights thinning out by the end. And try to shift our workers towards our FP, it needs some work around it. Other than that, just conquer the Zulu! :D

One final thing: Don't make the mistake I did. I signed an MA without checking that two other people would. If I could only get one, I'm screwed, and I'd have to reload. So just make sure that you have half of the civs willing before you sign. Don't be stupid like me.

Good luck Jack!

Oops, forgot the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG6_350AD.sav
 
Originally posted by Aggie

One question: did you declare war before asking for alliances? If not, you should know that alliances get cheaper when you are at war with a civ...

I didn't know that. There is one problem with that - what if no one, or less than half, of the world wants to sign MAs? Then I just broke the rules, and I'd either have to reload or play with broken rules. I'll use that in non-coalition games (so thanks) but I'm afraid it can't be done here, because its risky.

Same reason I nearly made a stupid mistake by signing an MA before I knew I had three.
 
@cgannon: I never had problems to get MA's after declaring war. We have a lot of gpt. We could pay that if we want. At this point, looking at how war against the Zulu progresses, we don't need the Greeks and Celts to help us.

On the other hand: we can use the MA's to ensure that they don't backstab us...
 
got it.

As Aggie said, alliances become a whole lot cheaper once you are actually at war with the civ you're trying to buy an alliance against. Something to remember for the next time ;) Now that we
are at war, I'll try to sign half of the known civs to alliances.
 
Originally posted by jack merchant
got it.

As Aggie said, alliances become a whole lot cheaper once you are actually at war with the civ you're trying to buy an alliance against. Something to remember for the next time ;) Now that we
are at war, I'll try to sign half of the known civs to alliances.

Again, its risky. What if, even if its cheaper, we can only get less then half of the world to sign on? Then we just broke the rules...

For Future Notice: Do not sign MAs until you are postive that you can get at least half of the world to sign. We don't want to break any rules. :p
 
In my experience, it's next to impossible to get people to sign MA's with you to civs you are not currently at war with (unless they're already at war with the target). Are you saying we should always get an alliance beforehand ?

OTOH, we could just sign ROP's with people just before we go to war and declare them a member of the coalition of the wiling :p
 
Why are we building so many knights in cities without barracks? Regular units are a waste of shields IMO. A barracks is even cheaper to build than a knight is, so you might as well build a barracks then start building knights. I understand we're building Sun Tzu's but you can sell those barracks off after we get it. It's really not worth building regular units. Just my opinion though.
 
Originally posted by Shillen
Why are we building so many knights in cities without barracks? Regular units are a waste of shields IMO. A barracks is even cheaper to build than a knight is, so you might as well build a barracks then start building knights. I understand we're building Sun Tzu's but you can sell those barracks off after we get it. It's really not worth building regular units. Just my opinion though.

Good point, an oversight by me. :o

@ Jack: I managed to do it...:)
 
Originally posted by cgannon64
For Future Notice: Do not sign MAs until you are postive that you can get at least half of the world to sign. We don't want to break any rules. :p

I say it again: I have played a lot of civ3 games in this fassion and I never had any problems getting the WHOLE world behind me when at war with a civ. Provided that I had enough to trade. 200 gpt income qualifies...

Do I understand correctly that we just got a new rule: war is only allowed if we are able to get at least the half of the world behind us before declaring? That will add a little spice to the game! Please confirm or deny this rule cgannon :)
 
Originally posted by Aggie


I say it again: I have played a lot of civ3 games in this fassion and I never had any problems getting the WHOLE world behind me when at war with a civ. Provided that I had enough to trade. 200 gpt income qualifies...

I'll take your word for it...:)


Do I understand correctly that we just got a new rule: war is only allowed if we are able to get at least the half of the world behind us before declaring? That will add a little spice to the game! Please confirm or deny this rule cgannon :)

Hasn't this been a rule the whole time? :confused:
 
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