Chachapoyas

[Traitorfish]

Misdating, misidentification (yams), parallel domestication, any number of things.

The first two are possible, the third ignores the fact that both sweet potatoes and the particular breeds of chicken identified- assuming that they were correctly identified- are native to completely different geographic regions, so "parallel domestication" would require pre-Columbian contact to occur.

You still haven't given any possible explanations as to how the sweet potato managed to Polynesia so early, though. Perhaps this really is the simplest, and therefore most likely, explanation?

 

[Bugfatty300]

Weren't the chicken bones in South America via Polynesia conclusively proven through DNA?

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Um... does anyone have more info on these people (Chachapoyas) ? I would like some info for a mod. Preferably with a list of sites.

 

[TheLastOne36]

You still haven't given any possible explanations as to how the sweet potato managed to Polynesia so early, though. Perhaps this really is the simplest, and therefore most likely, explanation?

Exactly. Also i don't think Polynesian Chickens were able to fly or swim over to South America.

Also, i don't think the polynesian canoes just happened for 2 reasons. 1 is because of the Pacific Current and secondly because they werent just shipwrecked of the coast, the natives of the nearby region started using themselves. They needed the Polynesians to teach them how to make such canoes me thinks.

 

[Yeekim]

Because anyone coming over into the Americas would leave linguistic, cultural, political, and epidemiological evidence. The fact that stuff changed when the Europeans actually did arrive in force shows us what should be there in the case of pre-Columbian contact -- and it isn't. Color me crazy for saying so, but absence of evidence is, in this case, evidence of absence.

Keywords here being "in force". I was not speaking of conquista or migration of entire nations here. Nor about permanent trade routes or embassies. A stray fleet of few ships and few hundred men, perhaps.

And there is evidence which suggests this could have happened. Dozens(?) of (para)historians, some completely crazy, some not so much, have scraped together every semblance of evidence they can find to prove their pet theories about how this contact happened. Few from the top of my head: Pyramids in both Mexico and Egypt; Aztec legends of white, bearded gods from the east, Giant Olmec Stone Heads having Negro faces, boats of Papyrus built on both Lake Titicaca and River Nile... this could go on. Of course, one can pretty easily discard them all, but don't say there is not stuff that can be taken for the kind of evidence you claim is lacking. And for my kind of scenario, what evidence could we hope for anyway? A giant obelisk on Yucatan shore with Egyptian hieroglyphs stating "Admiral Amon landed here on the 12th year of rule of blessed Queen Hatsepsut?"

It has been proven that an adequate technology to cross oceans was there. For me, it is not too big a stretch of imagination to believe that it actually happened at least once or twice within a gap of few thousand years.
EDIT: I was thinking that the only one of your arguments (linguistic, political, cultural...) that actually holds water is lack of epidemiological evidence. However, it occurred to me that viruses and bacteria do change terribly fast - and if they are especially deadly, they kind of "burn themselves out", killing people faster than they can pass them on. So if there had been a contact e.g. in 2000 BC, it shouldn't be a given that whatever germs might have been brought over would really have survived and/or provided immunity/protections against strains that had evolved separately for another 3500 years. Or maybe I am just clueless about epidemiology here.

 

[civiijkw]

As long as pre-Columbian contact is being discussed, what is the latest theory about the Chinese anchor that was dropped in (what is now) Southern California about 2000 years ago?

 

[Traitorfish]

As long as pre-Columbian contact is being discussed, what is the latest theory about the Chinese anchor that was dropped in (what is now) Southern California about 2000 years ago?

Hm, never heard of that. I know that there are theories about Zheng He reaching America- the notorious 1421 thing- and theories about some earlier 5th century Buddhist missionaries, but I've never heard of anything quite that far back.

 

[Sharwood]

The Spanish describe the Incas as being fair-skinned and fair-haired, but that doesn't mean they weren't Native American. Just that they happened to be somewhat unique in their particular coloration. After all, you find many different variation of 'Black' in Africa, and most 'White' people are significantly darker-skinned than I am. The same is likely true of these Chachopoyas.

Regarding the pre-Columbian contact theories: There is no conclusive evidence that such contacts took place, but they are known to have been possible, and there's a decent amount of circumstantial evidence, so there almost certainly were pre-Columbian contacts between Old World and New, most likely through the Polynesians. But we don't know for certain.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Regarding the pre-Columbian contact theories: There is no conclusive evidence that such contacts took place, but they are known to have been possible, and there's a decent amount of circumstantial evidence, so there almost certainly were pre-Columbian contacts between Old World and New, most likely through the Polynesians. But we don't know for certain.

To bad the Polynesians didn't start writing untill a century or two later. i'm sure they would've had records of such voyage if they had writing at the time.

 

[Dachs]

Hm, never heard of that. I know that there are theories about Zheng He reaching America- the notorious 1421 thing- and theories about some earlier 5th century Buddhist missionaries, but I've never heard of anything quite that far back.

In '82 they were refuting that by saying the anchor was actually modern (19th century), 'cause the currents in the North Pacific aren't conducive to junk travel. The anchors were made out of California rocks, and were probably used by Chinese-American fishermen.

 

[Sharwood]

To bad the Polynesians didn't start writing untill a century or two later. i'm sure they would've had records of such voyage if they had writing at the time.

Some of them had writing, but unfortunately they seemed to be the ones who had been settled the longest - which seems logical - and therefore not the types to make long journeys to Peru.