Change America

[Aspon]

the plus one sight is more gimicky then useful ok it helps but not enough to make them competitive America are famous in history for mass production during war time heck its pretty much what won world war two change Americas ability to something like plus 30% production during war time or something.

 

[Jimbo30]

That's ridiculously overpowered. The +1 sight is fine and helps a huge amount with bombarding especially.

 

[Aspon]

That's ridiculously overpowered. The +1 sight is fine and helps a huge amount with bombarding especially.

maybe 30% is to much could be 15% or something but its what America were famous for during wars.

 

[Dreadnought]

B-17's more than make up for it.

 

[Jimbo30]

Well you could say the same about many nations. Britain, Germany even Russia were all famous for producing large, technically superior forces to anyone else.

 

[CaptainKapow]

I don't think ANY bonus for being in a war is a good mechanic.

You could just declare war on one city state indefinitely and have the bonus for the entire game without consequences.

The plus one sight and lower territory cost aren't the most powerful bonuses for the civs, but they are still useful.

 

[Becomedeath]

I think you'll find what won world war two was pulling some major players off the bench who had spent the previous 4 years spectating.

By the rationale of realism, America should get a 30% production bonus when not participating in a war unless the enemy happens to have an oil surplus in which case they can operate at maximum efficency despite an unhappiness rating that would kill other civs.

The Americans have one of the most universally beneficial UAs of the game...it doesn't require nor warrant change.

For the love of Mike, stop trying to impliment squewered, one sided, quasi-reality into the game.

 

[Hustapha Thool]

I just have to say that is was not the Americans who won WWII it was the Allies

On Topic I think the American bonuses are fine as they are. Sight bonus is really a pretty good advantage.

 

[Randall Turner]

We've had this conversation before.

"squewered (sic), one-sided, quasi-reality" accurately describes the US's unique attributes. It's touted as an industrial powerhouse in the audio lead-in, but then...

The USA out-produced the rest of the world, put together, by the end of WWII. It surpassed Britain in total industrial output before 1900, and no other 20th century nation compared in either per-capita or gross productivity. Do a search on my name and the topic in this forum, I don't feel like digging up and re-posting the documentation.

And, of course, it was a world leader in what we'd call SP's in-game.

Its UA simply doesn't match its strengths. Due to its late arrival as a nation, its UU's are also late - it needs a strong, early UA to balance the handicap of UU's coming out when most games are already over.

Currently it's probably the weakest civ in the game, based on ability to win at higher difficulty levels. (I know, there are a few others that live down there in the basement, but the USA's got the cellar apartment, maybe sharing the bathroom with our stalwart Brit buddies.) I've got a standing request to MadDjinn for a standard Deity conquest victory to see if it can be done, and how he goes about it.

TL;DR - don't be so dismissive, the OP's complaint has historical and game-context merit.

 

[snarzberry]

New american UA - Opportunism: leave your friends hanging during war time while making loads of money then swan dive in at the last minute so you can falsely claim all the glory. +50 pt when your friends are at war.

/joking

 

[chazzycat]

Is America still considered that bad after the last patch? The sight bonus & cheap tile discounts are the early advantages you're looking for, and now the purchase discount is 50%. This really helps in early city development...buying resources & luxuries, etc. for resale. You are right about the military advantages coming late - but they are very nice. You can get +50% city attack on bombers with just barracks & armory now. And the musketman's ability has always been useful when upgraded to later units (esp mechs).

As far as historical context, I would argue that the industrial powerhouse we created was due to our unique circumstances, not anything special about the American civilization. How many other nations were handed almost an entire continent at their birth to expand into? How many countries out there have the geographical advantages of the USA, with 2 oceans, bountiful farmland, rivers, mountains, resources, etc? And how many of these countries are blessed with awesome natural defenses and have zero enemies nearby to defend themselves from anyway?

What really set us up for the industrial dominance was how rapidly we were able to expand across the entire landmass that was available to us. Manifest Destiny & whatnot. IMO this is what the devs attempted to capture with the UA.

*disclaimer: I haven't beat immortal or diety with USA. but I do believe once I'm at that level (soon) it will be doable. They are certainly a fine civ on emperor.

 

[insaneweasel]

B-17's more than make up for it.

B-17 is a late unit with a miniscule advantage over other units.

America's UA should also decrease the CULTURE of gaining tiles...that makes early liberty a good choice and allows them to land grab fast.

 

[Randall Turner]

What really set us up for the industrial dominance was how rapidly we were able to expand across the entire landmass that was available to us.

wiki "American System". Explain how that has anything to do with expansion, or why the rest of the world adopted it.

Again, have dealt with all these points (late war entry, natural resources, etc.) in another discussion - but I've got to go on a road trip here, no time. Nutshell == it was due to meritocracy, mercantile philosophy, low government interference, entrepreneurial ethic and industriousness - not geographical advantages. (A bunch of really good social policies, basically.)

 

[Morningcalm]

It's true +1 sight is hardly anything, I'd propose that they get +2 sight, or at least improve the minuteman, which barely sees any use.

It'd be nice if each civ was able to choose some bonuses at the start of each game too. maybe America could choose between one Great Person or one extra settler, whereas France could choose +3 policies or some such. Anything to make the civs less samey than they are now.

 

[seasnake]

Geez, post patch I think America is one of the better civs. +1 sight is awesome for finding goody huts and barb camps, and combat with other civs. I buy a lot of tiles, the cheap tile acquisition means you can control a lot of land early in the game without founding a ton of cities. The minuteman frankly rocks: I had two unit-producing cities with barracks/armory so my minuteman immediately where being born with the ability to launch amphibious assaults, heal nearby enemies, protection from ranged combat, etc. That first promotion is nice by itself, but what's really nice is that you can start customizing your units that much quicker.

B17 is also great, but I agree that like all late units/techs it wears off too quickly. I think if in the future the industrial to future era is expanded then America will be a top-tier civ.

 

[mujrim]

I just have to say that is was not the Americans who won WWII it was the Allies

On Topic I think the American bonuses are fine as they are. Sight bonus is really a pretty good advantage.

The Soviets won WWII.

 

[Revoran]

America gained almost as much land through war with other nations as it did through purchasing land - I dunno if that part of it's UA is accurate. However it certainly makes for a unique and useful UA.

 

[chazzycat]

wiki "American System". Explain how that has anything to do with expansion, or why the rest of the world adopted it.

Again, have dealt with all these points (late war entry, natural resources, etc.) in another discussion - but I've got to go on a road trip here, no time. Nutshell == it was due to meritocracy, mercantile philosophy, low government interference, entrepreneurial ethic and industriousness - not geographical advantages. (A bunch of really good social policies, basically.)

All I got from Wiki'ing "American System" is that it was a semi-successful platform supported by the Whig party in the early 1800s and involved heavy tarriffs/protectionism. It only lasted a couple decades and much of the country was not on board (namely the entire south and west). Nowhere in the article was there any mention of it being so successsful the entire world adopted it. Economies have always had protectionist elements, America was surely not the first.

You still have to admit the United States at the time of it's inception was in a VERY unique position with the amount of raw resources available for exploitation along with a history of European knowledge on how to best exploit them. Everyone knew the land was ripe for the picking. Rich Europeans were salivating over the potential, and poured in investment money for developing railroads, canals, etc. That, along with cheap immigrant labor and/or straight up slave labor, played a much larger role in developing the economy than the notion of "exceptional american industrialism."

Sure, we had a lot of great ideas along the way, but mainly we got lucky IMO. And it can't be denied that the rapid expansion across the continent was a big factor in paving the way for our future dominance.

Also, doesn't your argument that it was basically "a lot of good social policies" kinda nullify the whole question? Wouldn't that be better reflected by say, taking the liberty, commerce, and freedom branches?

 

[chazzycat]

Let's also not forget the Louisiana Purchase. Napoleon quoted "This accession of territory affirms forever the power of the United States, and I have given England a maritime rival who sooner or later will humble her pride."

sounds like "cheap tile purchase --> economic dominance" to me.

 

[SemperFi2382]

Let's also not forget the Louisiana Purchase. Napoleon quoted "This accession of territory affirms forever the power of the United States, and I have given England a maritime rival who sooner or later will humble her pride."

sounds like "cheap tile purchase --> economic dominance" to me.

Don't forget "Seward's Folly" (aka the purchase of Alaska from Russia)

Cheap land purchases is perfect as one of America's traits IMO.