Changes to returning civilizations

[Souka]

Long time lurker here, decided to join finally, hope it's OK to start a new thread already? Apologies in advance if not.

I was surprised of the precise amount of new content announced, especially this part: "27 new units, 13 new buildings". We have 9 new civilizations, they will probably receive around 18 unique buildings or units divided among them (save for a few UI). That's 22 left.
2K didn't say yet how many new technologies were added to the game, but there probably won't be enough to create enough room for 22 brand new units and buildings available to all the civs (or if they did, it's a whole new game they've made!)

Since it's doubtful they added one new UU or UB to all the civilizations, I was wondering if that could mean they added new leaders for a few existing civs: For example, a new Ottoman leader with a new powerful UB that would replace the Janissary, which would force you to make strategic choices and take a commerce-oriented strategy instead of war.
Or two different versions of the leaders (since new leaders would mean new 3D models, that sounds more realistic), for example a war-oriented Napoleon with the Mousquetaire and the Légion, and a different UA (Nouvel Empire ?), then a culture-oriented Napoleon with Ancien Régime, Mousquetaire and a new culture-oriented building (I think France received the Salon in Civ IV BTS?).

With all the new techs, wonders, religion and espionage, I'm really curious to see how the old civilizations will fare in the expansion. I hope they have been taken into account and won't feel rusty or out of place...
What do you think? Will there be any new things for our good old Catherine and Alexander?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Welcome to the forum

I already had the suspicion that all civs will get two UUs and one UB, but the numbers don't add up. we'd need 31 new units and 21 new buildings (withuot DLC civs) for that, so unfortunately no new unique things for existing civs.

There is a chance that existing civs willl get new traits to rebalance them. The Ottomans could get a new religious unique ability instead of their near useless barbarian fleets and Russia would be a good civ for better espionage.

 

[mitsho]

They would definately have announced if they would have new leaders. The missing "22" new units or buildings can be explained easily:

• a whole new line of melee ships: 3-5, maybe a privateer as well..
• we know that the ranged units line will be prolonged into the modern era, probably the machine gun is one of those. 1-3 new units
• We also know that there are a few new air units. 2+ new units
• Spies and Missionaries may count for them, depending on how they exactly work.
• The Great Prophet and the Great Admiral = 2 more
• The Religion and Espionage system will result in a few new buildings (Temples will switch from culture to religion probably...) 4+ buildings

That count adds up for me to fill up all those slots. Sorry! ;-)

 

[BuilderFTW]

They would definately have announced if they would have new leaders. The missing "22" new units or buildings can be explained easily:

• a whole new line of melee ships: 3-5, maybe a privateer as well..
• we know that the ranged units line will be prolonged into the modern era, probably the machine gun is one of those. 1-3 new units
• We also know that there are a few new air units. 2+ new units
• Spies and Missionaries may count for them, depending on how they exactly work.
• The Great Prophet and the Great Admiral = 2 more
• The Religion and Espionage system will result in a few new buildings (Temples will switch from culture to religion probably...) 4+ buildings

That count adds up for me to fill up all those slots. Sorry! ;-)

Plus the ww1 era tank unit
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/121/1218810/sid-meiers-civilization-v-20120215022138776.jpg

 

[Chibiabos]

One of Askia's traits is embarked units can defend themselves, which seems to be redundant now since everyone's embarked units will defend themselves, so that will probably get erased (or maybe their other trait, triple gold from barb camps and pillaging, will get buffed ... quadruple or quintuple gold?)

 

[bonafide11]

One of Askia's traits is embarked units can defend themselves, which seems to be redundant now since everyone's embarked units will defend themselves, so that will probably get erased (or maybe their other trait, triple gold from barb camps and pillaging, will get buffed ... quadruple or quintuple gold?)

Honestly, the triple gold from pillaging plus their powerful UU & UB are strong enough as it is. They don't really need to change anything about the Songhai.

 

[bite]

I wouldn't be surprised to see some changes in the old civs (they done it before) for instance I would suspect some of the vanilla civ that have a strong (or popular) history of religion/espionage could see some traits biased around that.

 

[GenjiKhan]

It's very possible that they add more benefits for civilizations which has poor UA,like USA and Denmark .

 

[Pouakai]

Wait, Denmark? Their UA is incrediably powerful on the right map, I took over the world with just three units with it!

 

[Monthar]

The American UA is by no means poor. 1) It helps counter the limited sight of siege units. 2) Artillery/Bomber spotters can stay out of harm's way easier. 3) Better chance of meeting CS's and finding ruins first.

 

[Revoran]

Apparently all embarked units can defend themselves in G&K. This was previously the Songhai ability, so I expect to see a new ability for them.

 

[elprofesor]

If anything, I'd expect something for Spain (conquistadores had that special ability) rather than Songhai. Conquistadores rely on exploring and settling new continents (unless you use their "no penalty against cities" feature ), so that makes them less unique.

Songhaï already lays everything to waste, regardless of embarking issues.

 

[apocalypse105]

Honestly, the triple gold from pillaging plus their powerful UU & UB are strong enough as it is. They don't really need to change anything about the Songhai.

If they buff horse units it buffs songhai and if they give the mandukalu cavalry his bonus against cities again then

 

[Souka]

Thanks, mr Sarmatian!

I wonder how the changes to the City-states will affect the UAs of Alex and Ramkhamhaeng. Probably Alex will still be as dominant as ever, since his UA works regardless of the type of city-state (as long as the new quest system doesn't change too much).
But Ramkhamhaeng? If there are two more CS types, he will have less chances of finding maritime and cultural CS, so I hope the benefits of the other CS will also be doubled. But if he receives double the gold from mercantile CS, won't that be a little OP?

I also wonder how the old strategy of having a powerful economy+patronage tree will end up. I used to spend all my money on all the CS after a certain stage in the game (especially with the likes of Arabia, China or Persia). If gold isn't enough to buy you CS friendship anymore, but new systems such as religion give you more gold, what are you supposed to waste it on when you're a middle-sized empire? Do we know if espionage requires gold to be efficient?

 

[Louis XXIV]

I don't think Mercantile gives gold. I heard it gives you special luxuries. Not sure if he can take advantage of that. He probably will get bonuses from religious CS, though.

A couple other ideas for changes to take advantage of new features:
Have Galleys upgrade to Privateers (for the Ottoman UA)
Give the English an increased chance of producing Great Admirals

 

[elprofesor]

Whoah...
"special luxuries"?
"great admirals"?

Where did you get that from? I'm sure I am not the only one interested!

---
And if the quest system is indeed as expanded as they try to make us believe (finally we get multiple quests per Cs! And new quests to boot! Plus espionage and religion...), I wouldn't think that mercantile CS giving gold would be stupid. They would be reversing the way it worked up until now: instead of investing gold for resources, we invest resources for gold.
But apparently they give special luxuries, and new features trumps gold!

 

[Louis XXIV]

I can't find the thing about special luxuries anymore. According to Greg, mercantile CS help grow your treasury, so maybe I'm wrong there.

Source for Great Admiral

 

[mitsho]

But city-state only ressources are already in. They're just distributed over the existing city states. Also their use would be very specific (when you need happiness) as excess happiness is not really useful in every situation (you need the culture policy or the rationalism one). So they need to have some other benefit, right? Because if only they give special luxuries, the other types are weakened.

On that topic, military city states should give unique units, especially city-state specific unique units. (Edinburg = highlander), not?

 

[Louis XXIV]

CS don't have unique resources, they have resources. It's quite possible to have gold, for example, even if a CS has it too.

Happiness is also useful for faster Golden Ages, so they'd always have at least some use.

 

[Chibiabos]

CS don't have unique resources, they have resources. It's quite possible to have gold, for example, even if a CS has it too.

Happiness is also useful for faster Golden Ages, so they'd always have at least some use.

It has been reported that CSes will have unique luxury goods in this expansion.

"New mercantile city-states have access to luxury resources you can't find elsewhere." -- caption on image http://www.gamespot.com/images/6350...esources+you+can%27t+find+elsewhere.&cvr=pB91