Changes to returning civilizations
- Thread starter Souka
- Start date
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Thanks for finding the info. I knew I read it, but couldn't confirm it when asked.
Yes, it seems this is a bonus of Mercantile City States.
Morningcalm
Keeper of Records
That's kind of unique, good! It'd be even better if CSes had more interesting personalities and actually crossed borders of civs they are allied to.
Great Admirals sound intriguing. I guess they'll be a combat unit (otherwise they wouldn't be useful at all, or clunky--since all other GP don't have any HP at all). Horatio Nelson and Yi Sun-shin will be among the named admirals, I bet.
Great Admirals sound intriguing. I guess they'll be a combat unit (otherwise they wouldn't be useful at all, or clunky--since all other GP don't have any HP at all). Horatio Nelson and Yi Sun-shin will be among the named admirals, I bet.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
I agree that CS should cross borders. Moreover, I think they should fight each other on their own and then ask for help after this.
Don't forget Themistocles!
ShahJahanII
Homesick Alien
Civilizations that have city-states mentioned in their UA would definitely be affected and would possibly need an adjustment.
Would the Greeks, Siamese, and Mongols become better or worse with the change?
Would the Greeks, Siamese, and Mongols become better or worse with the change?
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
I was going to add Lysander from the Pelopponesian War (who might be my favorite Spartan). There's also Sir Francis Drake if Pirates can be great admirals. Finally, WWII guys like Yamamoto and Nimitz (you could have both Yamamoto and Nimitz on your side
).
I hope they change existing civilizations a bit. I think some are underwhelming and others too powerful. I wouldn't mind wholesale sweeps to the civilizations.
I am concerned, however, that there won't be a lot of interesting yet balanced effects for new civilizations. Let's take an example. Hypothetically, let's say Portugal gets added in as a civ, what would their unique ability be? Nothing like +2 Move for Naval Units. What would they add?
I am concerned, however, that there won't be a lot of interesting yet balanced effects for new civilizations. Let's take an example. Hypothetically, let's say Portugal gets added in as a civ, what would their unique ability be? Nothing like +2 Move for Naval Units. What would they add?
They will change some existing Civs, it's confirmed.
I'm most interested in how England will be implemented. It's pretty much number one Civ in the topics about poor UA. The devs have listened to fans' ideas a lot for this expansion, so I'm sure England gets some overhaul.
I think they should keep the +2 navy movement bonus, with added bonus of:
More influence to mercantile and militaristic city-states,
or
bonuses to coastal towns and great admirals appearing more often
j51
Blue Star Cadet
I wouldn't be surprised if England does get an Art-of-War style great admiral buff.
Agreed. I would like to see some adjustment for all the Civs. I think it might be interesting to get 2 UU's + 1 UB or UI for each Civilization, but thats highly unlikely. With two unique units the unique abilities could be more flexible - more peace orientated and such.
I really hope the Mongol UA gets some upgrade. "Combat Strength +30% when fighting City-State units or attacking a City-State itself. All mounted units have +1 Movement." Perhaps if Chinas UA is changed the Mongols could get small GG bonus and/or city attack bonus (not just against CS cities).
Mongols don't need an upgrade; they are very powerful. What's more, their bonus against CS is under normal circumstances not that useful, but I like the effect of UA's to stimulate a particular style of playing. You should be waging war agsint CS with Mongols, to get good cities and deny other nations allies.
England needs a buff. j51's idea about Great Admiral seems good. Maybe something requiring faith could also work.
And I'm guessing Russia will receive some Espionage bonus, instead of their current bonus.
England needs a buff. j51's idea about Great Admiral seems good. Maybe something requiring faith could also work.
And I'm guessing Russia will receive some Espionage bonus, instead of their current bonus.
It depends on how the CS receive their new exclusive resource.
If it's something intangible (like films in Civ4) that disappears if you conquer them, that wouldn't be very useful.
But if it were a resource like the others (for example some luxury that always appears on the hex where a CS is founded) and you can have it when you conquer the CS, then the mongol UA becomes much more interesting. Others would need to be nice and do quests to get access to it, while you would just need to send a couple of Keshik early on and get a free exclusive resource just for you until the end of the game.
It would also depends on how easy or frequent these quests are. If becoming friends is too easy, the Mongol UA would only be useful to prevent other civs from getting the resource. If the quests make it too difficult or bothersome to befriends CS, then invading them and getting the resource with a couple of units give you a rather big edge without even receiving a harsh diplomatic backlash, since that could be the only CS you invade for the whole game.
If it's something intangible (like films in Civ4) that disappears if you conquer them, that wouldn't be very useful.
But if it were a resource like the others (for example some luxury that always appears on the hex where a CS is founded) and you can have it when you conquer the CS, then the mongol UA becomes much more interesting. Others would need to be nice and do quests to get access to it, while you would just need to send a couple of Keshik early on and get a free exclusive resource just for you until the end of the game.
It would also depends on how easy or frequent these quests are. If becoming friends is too easy, the Mongol UA would only be useful to prevent other civs from getting the resource. If the quests make it too difficult or bothersome to befriends CS, then invading them and getting the resource with a couple of units give you a rather big edge without even receiving a harsh diplomatic backlash, since that could be the only CS you invade for the whole game.
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I'd like to see England get the Great Admiral generation bonus and I'd like to see Spain get some kind of faith-based UA and maybe the Conquistadors can be missionaries too to replace their embarked defense.
I think The Songhai should get some kind of Faith-economic bonus, like Faith from Gold/Silver/Gem mines to replace their embarked defense.
I think The Songhai should get some kind of Faith-economic bonus, like Faith from Gold/Silver/Gem mines to replace their embarked defense.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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Conquistadores being missionaries works well... ie if a Conquistador conquers a City, the city is automatically converted to your religion.
England could just get an additional Great Admiral bonus, or a bonus to Mercantile city states
Siam will probably get a bonus to Religious City States (as well as cultural+maritime)
I don't see a reason to revise Songhai too much. Maybe a boost to their Mud Pyramid Mosque
Ottomans may get some change, or possibly just a indirect boost, (if their captured barbarian ships get better.. ie privateers. then their ability might be more interesting)
I don;t think gold for City states is being eliminated, just that it is made less important than quests (it might possibly be limited, ie you can only spend once every 20 turns or so.)
bcaiko
Emperor
I've long been an advocate for England's UA getting a small boost, like bonus gold from Harbors. But with the changes coming to naval warfare, they may not need it. I'd personally be sad to see them get a the UA suggested above which is a derivative of China's...that's not very unique to me.
Songhai's ability will need to be reworked, of course. But the easy fix for that is to give Songhai's embarked units bonus defense.
There certainly will have to be changes. I think the real question is: will the UAs of the current Civs be completely rehauled (including some that currently don't need to be rehauled, like Russia's) or will there only be some tweaks?
Songhai's ability will need to be reworked, of course. But the easy fix for that is to give Songhai's embarked units bonus defense.
There certainly will have to be changes. I think the real question is: will the UAs of the current Civs be completely rehauled (including some that currently don't need to be rehauled, like Russia's) or will there only be some tweaks?
headcase
Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn
England already has two UU's.... it's not getting another one. What you could do is gift England economically to give players incentives to produce a large navy. On non-archipelago maps, you may not require a single ship depending on the game. But similar to Spain, there is reason to explore and settle.
But England wasn't a conqueror. They weren't a pure trading power either. They were an occupier and influence spreader.
UA: Expanses of the Motherland: Intercontinental cities produce double the unhappiness. 2X additional faith, culture, and science.
Meaning monuments give you +4 culture. Liberty policy would give you +4 for every city on another continent. Every science, culture, and faith bonus is essentially doubled.
However, every time a city grows, that is +1.5 unhappiness. Plus the -6 right off the bat from settling. Meaning your cities can eventually revolt if they get too big. This forces you to acquire more luxuries and whatnot.
This would force you to go tall in your capital. Get to Monarchy quickly. Then go wide when you can navigate the Oceans. You wouldn't want to settle too many additional cities on your existing continent because you don't utilize the UA that way. Plays well into England.
As far as revolutions, revolting cities would develop into new city states once you grant them independence. It should be a mechanic for any city in any empire really. Asking those cities to develop into new civilizations would be taking it further than it needs to be taken IMO.
But England wasn't a conqueror. They weren't a pure trading power either. They were an occupier and influence spreader.
UA: Expanses of the Motherland: Intercontinental cities produce double the unhappiness. 2X additional faith, culture, and science.
Meaning monuments give you +4 culture. Liberty policy would give you +4 for every city on another continent. Every science, culture, and faith bonus is essentially doubled.
However, every time a city grows, that is +1.5 unhappiness. Plus the -6 right off the bat from settling. Meaning your cities can eventually revolt if they get too big. This forces you to acquire more luxuries and whatnot.
This would force you to go tall in your capital. Get to Monarchy quickly. Then go wide when you can navigate the Oceans. You wouldn't want to settle too many additional cities on your existing continent because you don't utilize the UA that way. Plays well into England.
As far as revolutions, revolting cities would develop into new city states once you grant them independence. It should be a mechanic for any city in any empire really. Asking those cities to develop into new civilizations would be taking it further than it needs to be taken IMO.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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Forces a play style too much.
Going with +2 naval movement and a bonus to Great Admirals created would be good enough.
Yeah but Great admirals would not replace either existing UU. Unless you took out Ship of the Line and made it a universal unit. That to me one dimensionalizes England even more.
Besides, even as Spain, how often are you settling a city on the FOY wonder in the opposite hemisphere that late into the game? It might be worth it to wage war if that is a city state with that wonder or something, but would require more careful consideration if the natural wonder is under control of a fully developed empire.
It is a rare bonus that is HUGE when implemented right. Sometimes it is worth it. Other times it is not. But still something the player would NEVER consider with any other civ but those two.
Besides, it is mute, because the previous major patch would have added something for England if they felt it was imbalanced, while Ottomans and Germans were buffed accordingly.
