Charm person spell question

[Pintadvs]

Hi,

I posted a question on the main thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5210905&postcount=4183), maybe it's more appropriate here. In the savegame i joined in that post, my loki can charm the lizardmen, a green text appears saying "unit charmed". If I see that, the spell has not failed, right ? So, I should not be bothered by that unit for a turn at least, no ?

 

[eerr]

Hi,

I posted a question on the main thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5210905&postcount=4183), maybe it's more appropriate here. In the savegame i joined in that post, my loki can charm the lizardmen, a green text appears saying "unit charmed". If I see that, the spell has not failed, right ? So, I should not be bothered by that unit for a turn at least, no ?

charm person has been broken vs ai's for a very long time.

 

[Pintadvs]

thanks for your answer. Anyone knows if it's gonna be adressed soon ?

 

[onedreamer]

It doesn't need any fix since it has always worked. And it lasts indefinitely until when you attack the unit. It's IMO the strongest Adept spell.

 

[Sarisin]

It doesn't need any fix since it has always worked. And it lasts indefinitely until when you attack the unit. It's IMO the strongest Adept spell.

I don't think this is true.

The spell doesn't always work - it fails to charm a certain percentage of the time.

And, it definitely doesn't last indefinitely. You are right, if you attack, it will be lifted. However, it will also disappear in an indetermined number of turns too. I have seen it go the very next turn, or last many turns. It doesn't seem to depend on the type of unit charmed either.

It would be great if casters had a % of spell being successful rate posted similar to combat odds. For example, not having a charm spell work can be bad, but having the Domination spell fail, you could lose your caster!

Of course, those percentages, including combat odds, can be whacky too.

 

[onedreamer]

I never experienced any problem of those you mention.
I'm not sure what you mean with "it fails to charm a certain percentage of the time". That's normal mechanics, not a bug. If you mean that a charmed unit still attacked you, check that the attacked unit wasn't hidden nationality. About the duration, it always lasted indefinitely until when I checked, of course I won't (and can't) check each single unit I charm forever, however the efficiency of Charm has been very good for me, certainly it can't be said that "it's broken".........

 

[Nikis-Knight]

No, it certainly doesn't last indefinitely. It'll eventually wear off, though I can't tell you the odds offhand. And of course there's dispel, but I don't expect the AI to cure charm via dispel all that much.

 

[onedreamer]

plus Dispel is a level 2 spell, Charm is a evel 1 spell. Very few civs have chaos mana to be able to cast Dispel.

When I said indefinitely, I meant I can't tell how long, since I never saw Charm wearing off. In the case of the OP, the problem is with Loki's retreat ability.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Oh, then I might know what's wrong--units charmed will still try to attack, but will immediately retreat. Perhaps Loki's retreat triggers first, and they are still able to push him around?

 

[onedreamer]

exactly. just place a scout in the city and charm will work like a... charm

 

[loki1232]

Oh, then I might know what's wrong--units charmed will still try to attack, but will immediately retreat. Perhaps Loki's retreat triggers first, and they are still able to push him around?

"Fixing" this would be welcome.

 

[Sarisin]

I never experienced any problem of those you mention.
I'm not sure what you mean with "it fails to charm a certain percentage of the time". That's normal mechanics, not a bug. If you mean that a charmed unit still attacked you, check that the attacked unit wasn't hidden nationality. About the duration, it always lasted indefinitely until when I checked, of course I won't (and can't) check each single unit I charm forever, however the efficiency of Charm has been very good for me, certainly it can't be said that "it's broken".........

Haven't you ever tried to cast a spell only to get the message "spell resisted?" Or maybe the confusing "spell interface?"

In both these cases the spell doesn't work. In the specific case of the Charm spell it means the unit can attack - it is not charmed.

I don't think it is true of all spells, but many have as I said, a percentage of failing to work. I never said it is a bug - I merely said spells, like Charm, don't work all the time as you said.

I agree the spell is not broken, but it also doesn't last indefinitely. If it works, and there is a chance it will be resisted, it ONLY works a random number of turns - maybe one, maybe 10.

The other thing to mention is that the Charm spell will stop a unit from attacking, but NOT from pillaging. If you cast the Charm spell on that Goblin Chariot approaching your city, don't expect it to ignore that lovely farm or mine sitting there.

I agree it is one of the best early available spells, and, I really like the whole Mind sphere of spells.

 

[eerr]

Haven't you ever tried to cast a spell only to get the message "spell resisted?" Or maybe the confusing "spell interface?"

In both these cases the spell doesn't work. In the specific case of the Charm spell it means the unit can attack - it is not charmed.

I don't think it is true of all spells, but many have as I said, a percentage of failing to work. I never said it is a bug - I merely said spells, like Charm, don't work all the time as you said.

I agree the spell is not broken, but it also doesn't last indefinitely. If it works, and there is a chance it will be resisted, it ONLY works a random number of turns - maybe one, maybe 10.

The other thing to mention is that the Charm spell will stop a unit from attacking, but NOT from pillaging. If you cast the Charm spell on that Goblin Chariot approaching your city, don't expect it to ignore that lovely farm or mine sitting there.

I agree it is one of the best early available spells, and, I really like the whole Mind sphere of spells.

last time i played, the ai ignored the effects of charm, but of course, that was awhile ago.

 

[onedreamer]

I don't think it is true of all spells, but many have as I said, a percentage of failing to work. I never said it is a bug - I merely said spells, like Charm, don't work all the time as you said.

Oh man. Look it up and read, it's written quite clearly "It doesn't need any fix since it has always worked". Does this equal to "it always works" to you ? Meh. I was cearly answering err about the fact that it's not broken. And never was.

edit: indefinite = you can't tell for sure. It's not a synonim of infinite >_<

 

[Nikis-Knight]

yes, you're right. It's random, thus undetermined, so indefinite was a fine choice of word. Which doesn't necessarily mean it lasts very long.

 

[kenken244]

charm person has a 10&#37; chance of wearing off each turn

 

[Pintadvs]

...so, if I understand it well, it is intended that when I cast the spell at turn t, i always get a "unit charmed", but in fact, there is a 10&#37; chance the spell has no effect at all ?

check that the attacked unit wasn't hidden nationality.

And there is a 100% chance the spell has no effect at all if the unit is a barbarian or has hidden nationality ?

 

[Nikis-Knight]

No. If it says "unit charmed" it should work. each turn after that the affected unit has a 10&#37; chance of recovering.
If it doesn't work, it should say "spell resisted" and the chance of that depends on the relative levels of the two units.
I don't think barbarian or hidden nationality effect the spell at all.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Technically, indefinate and infinate should be synonyms, both meaning what onedreamer means by indefinate. In-finatum means its is not fixed, while in-de-finatum means it is not fixed in relation to something. Infinate would have worked too, but would have confused people slightly more. Just because something is unlimited doesn't means that it is big.

 

[eerr]

No. If it says "unit charmed" it should work. each turn after that the affected unit has a 10% chance of recovering.
If it doesn't work, it should say "spell resisted" and the chance of that depends on the relative levels of the two units.
I don't think barbarian or hidden nationality effect the spell at all.

it used to be that charm promotion did not force ai units to withdraw-due to missing coding
but it seems to work now