Chat log from last TC.. problems, instructions not followed

[robboo]

There has been some problems discovered about the last TC. Worker movement orders were not followed and other military units were not moved. "Toot uncommon" is now named "Toot unknown" Iron was not hooked up via road, Forest is being chopped in TU instead of a jungle.

Does anyone have the TC log. I would like to see what exactly happened. I also request that DaveShack delay his TC until we can sort this out. Just trying to figure out what happened and if anyone issued orders during the TC.

//Nobody...we all make mistakes...nothing appears to be incorrectable so far.

 

[GeorgeOP]

MG now has a theater. Toot Unkown is building a second archer.

 

[robboo]

George...those were becasue the governors did not post instructions and your emergency instructions were deemed not lawful..( I guess)

BUT what of your worker orders ..those were not followed correct?

/Why isnt there more people discussing this.It appeas that I guess we shoudl not post any instructions at all if all that mattters is what the DP wants and no one cares.

 

[ravensfire]

Given this problem, and the concern some feel about it, I suggest that we put any Turn Chat's on hold until it's resolved. There's already instructions posted that will do just that, so rather than even have a TC, let's just hold off, figure out what's going on and how to prevent it, and go from there.

Sound good?

-- Ravensfire

 

[robboo]

I am agreeable to that. Thanks Censor for chiming in, good to have your support on this.

 

[DaveShack]

Oops, the kids were little beasts last night and I overlooked posting the backup copy of the log. Sorry, maybe tonight if Nobody hasn't responded.

 

[robboo]

I would appreciate it Dave...I have 2 beasts of my own and understand.

 

[DaveShack]

Forgot to mention that the TC is postponed until this issue is sorted out.

 

[ravensfire]

Okay, time for someone to step up for all the DP's, including Nobody.

Being a DP is pain in the backside. It sucks, to be blunt. There is virtually no reward and minimal thanks for tossing aside an evening or afternoon to play 10 turns. We (the citizens) are a fickle group - we demand a great deal and give virtually nothing. We took the efforts of the best DP I've seen in a long time, and derided them and that person mercilessly because of the format they choose.

We post instructions with links to other threads.

We post vague or hidden instructions.

We post poorly organized and labeled instructions.

We change instructions at the turn chat.

We post instructions beyond the scope of our office.

And yet we demand absolute and utter perfection from the DP, when we can't be bothered to help them out. And when the DP doesn't live up to that high standard, they are tossed to the curb and vilified. Pathetic.

Mistakes are part of being human and most certainly are part of DemoGame. When mistakes are made, there are three options. 1 - ignore the mistake. 2 - point out the mistake gently and work to correct it. 3 - flame away! Everyone should be asking themself how THEY would want THEIR OWN mistakes handled, and treat the mistakes of others that way.

Nobody - and the other DP's this term - thank you for giving up your time for something the vast majority of people here do not want any part of. Thank you for working through confusing, poorly written and unclear instructions as best you can. Thank you for covering all the leaders that did not post instructions.

It's appreciated by at least one citizen here - me.

-- Ravensfire

 

[DaveShack]

Ravensfire is 100% on target. I'll admit I might be guilty of judging too much in the case of the last TC, though I do expect generally good play from our DPs and would like to work towards good quality.

Back in the day when the President was the DP for an entire term, it was even worse! When I play DG turns, I take 2-3 times as long as I do playing my own game, even longer in some cases. Not just because the threat of officials being upset with in-game decisions is always there, but because I take the responsibility very seriously.

We badly need to revitalize this game. All the officials need to improve the way they write their instructions. Ideally, instructions should be explicit enough to cover the strategy and general tactics, but flexible enough to allow the DP to make some decisions and adjust to conditions.

Spoiler comments on the Blkbird incident :

The "Blkbird incident" was not about being good or bad as a DP, it was a personal style thing in how responses to questions and comments were handled. Unfortunately instead of resulting in behavior modification, the feedback we all gave in that case resulted in driving a good player away. We can't predict who will change and who will leave.

 

[robboo]

First off you guys are correct in that the DPs have a thanksless difficult job.In addition if the instructions are not clear the DP should ask the official before the TC.

BUT the response from Nobody was less than ideal. He did not follow Georges LEGAL instructions nor did he follow mine. He also misnamed the city. Any one of these do not show a problem, but the combination of all show he either didnt care, did not read all of the instructions or did not take his time as needed. He did however have enough time to name units after himself...."Nobody's first Ax unit".( which however minor isnt in his authority) All combined thats when I decided to bring this up. How many on here will not vote for a person if they screw up...quite a few as shown by the earlier incident with a DP. A DP can make mistakes that could cost many of us future positions. ..if we aren't to able to go to war when Old Sarai is size 2...who's fault is it mine for not ensuring the instructions are followed or the DP.

 

[ravensfire]

who's fault is it mine for not ensuring the instructions are followed or the DP.

As I said - there are three ways to handle this situation. Personally, I think it could have been handled with a bit more respect for a fellow citizen, and still gotten your points across.

Will you be willing to run for a DP position next term?

-- Ravensfuire

 

[BCLG100]

Why did we ever change from having a president to having DP's playing the game out of interest, these days i dont really see the need for the president as pretty much everything else seems to be covered.

 

[robboo]

Ravensfire...No I cant but I would like to. I cannot run a chat program and civ at the same time AND...getting 1 to 2 hours uninterupted by a 2 and 4 year old is next to impossible.
Maybe later on but not during my current state of being Mr Mom and with trying to grow woodworking business. ( if you volunteer a newer video card and a babysitter..no problem )

Also I am the backup DP for Team Aloha which is only 1 turn at a time.

BCLG...I noticed that the pres has the option of doing the TC at the schedueld time..at least according to the CoL

I have and hopefully will still be in touch with Nobody in PM. Like I said in the first post here..everyone makes mistakes but the way he responded and the number of them is what caused me to react like this. I stand by my actions.

 

[Strider]

*shrug* What am I suppose to say? Things happen, people make mistakes... end of story.

Instead of talking about who's fault it is, lets just fix it and move on.

As for trying to make sure that it doesn't happen again.. there's not alot we can do. Mistakes happen, things don't always turn out as planned, there is not alot we can do about it. Remind our remaining DPs to take acouple of extra seconds to read the instructions again.. and ask our leaders to post clearer instructions. Regulating it with fine-tuned exact beucratic bullcrap will just make it worst.

 

[robboo]

Strider..you are right there is blame to go around. I will attempt to make my instructions clearer. Many officails did not post instructions and that needs to be fixed.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Truth is that citizens have no choice but to complain, or to wait until the next election cycle to rectify a DP problem. For all of the presumed flak that a DP may receive from the general populace, it should at least be comforting to know that there is no legal mechanism threatening their job.

Put some legal accountability onto the DP and maybe it will be taken more seriously by those who apply for the role.

Citizens: You are not exempt from blame when a crisis like this occurs. Rather than rubber-stamping each DP slate at election time, try to adequately assess all aspects of each candidate. Are they thorough? Responsible? Trustworthy?

Aside from the public backlash against Blkbird, we have had a 100% conversion rate in the DP election cycle! Everyone gets through! That should tell everyone something right there.

 

[ravensfire]

Why did we ever change from having a president to having DP's playing the game out of interest, these days i dont really see the need for the president as pretty much everything else seems to be covered.

Because fewer and fewer people were wanting to be the President. I would not ever run for President again, if the President was expected to run most turn chats as in the old system.

The concept was to seperate the leadership role of the President and the game playing role of the DP. It's been rather successful, gathering in new people to each role.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Strider]

Strider..you are right there is blame to go around. I will attempt to make my instructions clearer. Many officails did not post instructions and that needs to be fixed.

I didn't specfically mean you or anyone else for that matter. I was attempting to try to lead the discussion away from this "blame game" and actually discuss how we can rectify the mistakes.

Although, I don't think it will be to difficult the "make things right" (so to say). Rename the city to the correct name, have the workers do the correct things once their available, and start moving the units in the general direction they were suppose to be going.

 

[BCLG100]

Truth is that citizens have no choice but to complain, or to wait until the next election cycle to rectify a DP problem. For all of the presumed flak that a DP may receive from the general populace, it should at least be comforting to know that there is no legal mechanism threatening their job.

Put some legal accountability onto the DP and maybe it will be taken more seriously by those who apply for the role.

Citizens: You are not exempt from blame when a crisis like this occurs. Rather than rubber-stamping each DP slate at election time, try to adequately assess all aspects of each candidate. Are they thorough? Responsible? Trustworthy?

Aside from the public backlash against Blkbird, we have had a 100% conversion rate in the DP election cycle! Everyone gets through! That should tell everyone something right there.

i thought CG failed the term before last?

edit-Yer he Did

No offense intended CG just highlighting the point.