Chavez follows Mugabe's lead

IglooDame

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http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/91/368/16214_Chavez.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4290146.stm

Pravda said:
Venezuela's Chavez speeds up land reform
09/28/2005 22:14

The South American state will reclaim 500,000 hectares this year

After years of controversy, Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez launched last weekend a program to accelerate land distribution in the South American oil-rich nation. Broadcasting his weekly Sunday TV programme from a recently-seized farm, Mr Chavez called on ranch owners to negotiate with the government.

"We are not carrying out expropriation, this belongs to the nation, to the state," he said at the Marquesena farm. Mr Chavez's opponents have argued that plans for land reform violate property rights enshrined in the constitution.

Chavez's wealthy foes in Caracas rallied during the weekend demanding the government to cancel its land reform program, which aims to reclaim 500,000 hectares (1,235,000 acres) of farm land this year. The President replied that "property is not a sacred value" and vowed to go ahead.

Chavez's plan to redistribute land among poor farmers means the nationalization of large underused ranches without compensation, as according to him these productive areas have to be run for the benefit of the community.

President Chavez made the announcement from the 8,490-hectare (20,978-acre) Marquesena ranch, which is one of about 20 so far claimed by Venezuela's left-wing government. The Venezuelan state seized the farm after offering former owners 1,500 hectares (3,700 acres) of the ranch. The rest, the president said, would be used to establish a state farming co-operative.

"We can't stop with the Marquesena, we have to accelerate all of this," said Mr Chavez, who was accompanied by members of Brazil's Landless Movement. "I extend my hand to the supposed landowners to find a constructive solution," he added.

On Monday, Caracas went ahead with his plans. Local authorities seized a food plant which belonged to one of the largest food companies of the country and According to the government, it was inactive.

But the nationalization program is not only restricted to the food industry. Venezuela, the world's fifth-largest oil producer, may also take over fields operated by private companies if they don't convert operating contracts to joint ventures by a Dec. 31 deadline, Energy Minister Rafael Ramirez said Monday.

These operating contracts are illegal," Mr. Ramirez said. When asked what Petroleos de Venezuela would do if private producers refuse to convert the operations, he said, "We will assume production of the fields ourselves."

Petroleos de Venezuela currently has 32 contracts with 22 companies that operate and manage oil fields for it. The companies include Chevron Corp., Repsol YPF SA and Petroleo Brasileiro SA. Transitional agreements were signed with eight of the companies in August.
Chavez new initiatives have been broadly accepted by the poor majority, but will surely be resisted by the diluted opposition.

BBC said:
One of Venezuela's biggest food companies, Alimentos Polar, has said it will appeal against an order to expropriate one of its plants.

Company president Lorenzo Mendoza ruled out negotiating with the Venezuelan government, which says the factory has been lying unused for three years.

President Hugo Chavez is stepping up a campaign to seize land and businesses which officials consider idle.

The US ambassador has warned that the seizures could affect trading links.

"What is happening will have an impact on the commercial decisions of private companies, not only those from the United States, but all the countries of the world," Ambassador William Brownfield told local radio.

'Operational'

The decree ordering the expropriation of silos belonging to Alimentos Polar in Barinas state was issued by Governor Hugo de los Reyes Chavez, the president's father.

He said the order was justified because productive activities had ceased in 2002.

But Mr Mendoza rejected such claims.

"These silos are operational... this is a plant that is being used and which guarantees food security," he said.

"We consider this decision unjust, disconcerting and in our opinion unconstitutional.

"We turn to the only recourse we have always used, the law, one that which will in the end bring justice, and have this ruling annulled by the competent legal bodies," Mr Mendoza said.

Under President Chavez, laws have been passed to allow the state to seize private land and industries if they are considered idle.

He has argued that greater control over Venezuela's industry is needed to stimulate production and ensure profits are kept within the country.

Does anyone think that Chavez can nationalize farmland and other assets without making as bad a disaster of it as Mugabe created?
 
IglooDude said:
Does anyone think that Chavez can nationalize farmland and other assets without making as bad a disaster of it as Mugabe created?
Well, you have to admit that Mugabe set the benchmark pretty damn low.
 
Little Raven said:
Well, you have to admit that Mugabe set the benchmark pretty damn low.

True enough. Okay, I'll rephrase:

Can Chavez nationalize assets without starving Venezuela, given that Mugabe has already failed in that respect?
 
IglooDude said:
Can Chavez nationalize assets without starving Venezuela, given that Mugabe has already failed in that respect?
IIUC, he's seizing land that's not currently under cultivation. Other Latin American nations has got away with that without triggering starvation or anything like it, so I'd think he might get away with it.
 
IglooDude said:
Can Chavez nationalize assets without starving Venezuela, given that Mugabe has already failed in that respect?
Absolutely, if he does it right. Remember, Chavez has something that Mugabe never did...

Oil Revenue.

It'll take you far, especially at today's prices. Which isn't to say that nationalizing stuff is a good idea. It just isn't a death sentence for Venezuela in the short run.
 
Its too bad those alleged coup attempts made by the CIA have all failed.
 
Where is the evidence that government has the expertise required to turn a wide variety of seized lands towards greater profit?
 
stormbind said:
Where is the evidence that government has the expertise required to turn a wide variety of seized lands towards greater profit?
Well, if the gov't is right that the lands are idle, any sort of profit is an improvement.
 
stormbind said:
Where is the evidence that government has the expertise required to turn a wide variety of seized lands towards greater profit?
Land seizure is rarely about greater profit. More often, it's about distributed profit.

Of course, as Mugabe showed, that can easily turn into no profit. ;)
 
Can't think of any time a government has nationalized its resources and assets to become a global power. I think any step away from free markets is a bad one. And I think anything Chavez does seems to be a step in the wrong direction...
 
Irish Caesar said:
Can't think of any time a government has nationalized its resources and assets to become a global power. I think any step away from free markets is a bad one. And I think anything Chavez does seems to be a step in the wrong direction...
Ummm...Stalin comes to mind.

The Soviet empire might not have lasted, but we in the west did some awfully nasty things in the name of stopping them, so obviously they convinced at least a few people that they were indeed a world power.

edit: Damn you TLC.
 
The Last Conformist said:
Two words for you: Soviet Union.

Okay, I realized afterward that USSR did just that, but I neglected to mention the effect on the population.

USSR did indeed nationalize its economy to become a global power, but millions of average citizens were killed by the government in the process of the massive power grab.

Can it be done without lots of bloodshed, though?
 
Irish Caesar said:
Can't think of any time a government has nationalized its resources and assets to become a global power. I think any step away from free markets is a bad one. And I think anything Chavez does seems to be a step in the wrong direction...

I can't really imagine Chavez is making this particular move so that Venezuela will become a global power.

He is a leftist, so he's making leftist-influenced political decisions. One thing he has going for him that Mugabe didn't have is oil. They might just be rich enough to nationalize without the country going under.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the socialist vision only works when you're rich?
 
pboily said:
I can't really imagine Chavez is making this particular move so that Venezuela will become a global power.

He is a leftist, so he's making leftist-influenced political decisions. One thing he has going for him that Mugabe didn't have is oil. They might just be rich enough to nationalize without the country going under.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the socialist vision only works when you're rich?

It the Cubanization of Venezuela. Chavez and Castro are buddies!!!!! :D

the socialist vision works when you are rich, until money last. So, the richer the country, the longer it can remain as socialist without collapsing.
 
In today's world, in order to produce stuff efficiently (say, hypothetically, food and oil) you have to specialize. The people with the best skills and technology will produce the most food (or oil). There is simply no getting around this.

If you kick out rich foreigners who are better producers than you are, you will produce less. There's no getting around this either.

Something else there's no getting around: that, throughout history, lower living standards have been a pretty popular reason for people to get mad and start shooting each other.
 
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