Check Your Privilege

As I say I'm agnostic.

That's just another label, I think ;)

Really, there are at least 2 different definitions of that I've come across:

1. While Theists believe that there is a God ("a God" because different theists believe in different Gods and call each other heretics over that), and Atheists believe that there is no God(s), Agnostics believe neither, leaving the question open as long as there is no explicit answer.

2. Agnostics are a subgroup of Theists, who believe in a God, but don't believe people can explicitly define the God they believe in, and are therefore unsure of how to serve Him best.

Maybe there are other definitions as well. And no matter how many definitions I can dig out of the Internet, I totally can't tell what you mean by saying you are an Agnostic.

So, how would you define yourself?
 
Ignoring the silly example of the OP:

"Check your privilege!" seems to be mostly used as a non-argument on certain parts of the internet. Very often it just translates into "You are a person of privilege, so your argument doesn't count.", of course mostly when people disagree with you. Too often have I watched videos of more reasonable feminists, then gone into the comments section to give my opinion and then get 5+ people tell me that I need to check my privilege as a man - all of them upvoted like crazy - and maybe 1-2 people who actually respond to the argument, with only a few upvotes here and there.

Of course the YouTube comments section is cancer anyway, but still.
 
My personal view in life as an agnostic has been to accept that IF there is a God then I am probably "unworthy" to any God that may exist because I am a non-believer. I suppose I have "low self esteem" in that respect. I don't really fight it. I just sort of accept it. Clearly the atheist above is actively fighting the stigma associated with his beliefs.

So here's my question: Should I NOT accept such a label that may be consigned to me by theists? That there maybe is a God, and if there is, because I am not a "believer" I am probably somehow "less good" or whatever than a believer? Should I instead be "standing up for myself" and be actively trashing the religious views of my "oppressors"?

Thoughts?

The determination of your personal self-worth should involve a utilitarian examination of what system encourages you to be a better person. You should adopt those labels and classifications of you that are constructive to you in living a life of virtue. What labels are constructive in this manner will vary from person to person and across one's life.

For example, take the "less good" aspect of the label. Many people may well view being classified as less good as a determinant that diminishes and limns their personal ability. So that view isn't constructive to them because it places a limit on their ability to do good. Tell a person he's not as good and he might think he can't climb a mountain that is within his capabilities.

Catholics, in contrast, see all of humanity as a congregation of sinners. In the Catholic worldview, all of us are less than good. St. Francis, for example, was born just as much a sinner as Hitler. However, where others may see the inherent sin of man as being a limitation upon person endeavor, the Catholic sees it as a personal challenge to be the best, most virtuous person he can be in light of his state as a sinner. To a Catholic, the mountain is the challenge of being a good person, and if he did not start in a state of sin then there would be no reason to climb the mountain.

Then take the alcoholic, particularly one in recovery and a Friend of Bill W. The AA recovery system teaches alcoholics that they are less than their addictions and that they are less than other people who can control their consumption of alcohol. That works for the AA member because it gives him a focus and direction to be a better person. While the AA member might not have control over whether or not he can stop drinking, he has control over whether or not he starts drinking. Recognizing his weakness gives him power. The doctrine of weakness works for him because his mountain was something that he's come across as a result of the choices he's made in his life.

Diverse examinations of self-valuation can lead to being a good person. The determination of what self-valuation works for an individual to promote good is an important one, but it is really only important to that person. What is important to others is whether or not one has done good, regardless of the internal motivation. So if a secular humanist morality that presupposes a high inherent worth works for you to do good then accept that. If another systems encourages you to be better then go for that. The systems employed by others are helpful as a means to conduct this examination, but the real question is one that can only be answered by self-reflection.
 
I think a white person telling people of colour that racism is dead should indeed be told to check their priveledge, but apparently that is "wrong".

More like check their racism or the ivory tower they're proclaiming their nonsense from. Nobody sane thinks that racism is dead, it's all around us. If someone does say that racism is no more, that is not a problem of privilege, that is a problem of someone being an idiot or a racist or both. They don't realllly think there's no racism, there's no way somebody is that sheltered.

I suppose could see somebody being really rich and living in their own little world maybe thinking that.. but then that would be a priviledge of money and not of skin colour.
 
There are people on this very forum who think racism isn't a problem and is essentially dead.
 
1. While Theists believe that there is a God ("a God" because different theists believe in different Gods and call each other heretics over that), and Atheists believe that there is no God(s), Agnostics believe neither, leaving the question open as long as there is no explicit answer.

Actually, some atheists (like me) believe neither, too.

There are people on this very forum who think racism isn't a problem and is essentially dead.

And the problem is what, that they have .. white privilege and thus can't see racism? Nah, I don't buy that, that's just a silly talking point.
 
How is that silly? It sounds to me that it's more uncomfortable for you acknowledge that being white does allow people to ignore racial issues, because shock horror, white people often don't have to face them.
 
Unless of course you're being told that you're just a white guy who needs to shut the hell up because their opinion is worthless to them, solely on the basis of their color of skin.

Combating racism with racism is a great solution.
 
Then either the "Atheist" label you tag yourself with also needs to be defined, or you're not one.

Atheists deny the existence of God, right? That's why they are called Atheists in the first place, isn't it?
That's actually definition number 3:

Atheists don't believe in Gods based on the lack of evidence. Atheism itself does not make a claim about whether we know if there are Gods or not - that's left to Agnosticism.

That's why many people call themselves "Agnostic Atheists", people who don't know whether Gods exist but see no reason to believe in them because of the lack of evidence.
 
How is that silly? It sounds to me that it's more uncomfortable for you acknowledge that being white does allow people to ignore racial issues, because shock horror, white people often don't have to face them.

It's silly because if someone doesn't get that there's racism out there, I doubt it's because due to their skin colour. It's far more likely they've live a sheltered life, or something similar.

Then either the "Atheist" label you tag yourself with also needs to be defined, or you're not one.

Atheists deny the existence of God, right? That's why they are called Atheists in the first place, isn't it?

I lack a belief that God definitely exists, so I'm an atheist.

I also lack a belief that God definitely doesn't exist, mind you.
 
Atheists don't believe in Gods based on the lack of evidence.
Negative statements are tricky. Does this particular negative statement mean:

A. Atheists believe in Gods based on something else.
B. Atheists believe there are no Gods based on <whatever>.

If it's B., then it fits my definition, right?

That's why many people call themselves "Agnostic Atheists", people who don't know whether Gods exist but see no reason to believe in them because of the lack of evidence.
So, they are not sure, but tend to think "no God" to be more realistic than the opposite. Correct?

I lack a belief that God definitely exists, so I'm an atheist.

I also lack a belief that God definitely doesn't exist, mind you.

Then it's Schroedinger's God and you're an Agnostic, not an Atheist. :yup:

You'll become a Theist or an Atheist when you are certain about either.
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To mess things up completely:

There can be Secular Agnostics saying, "We don't know if there is a God or not, and we don't think it really matters."
 
Unless of course you're being told that you're just a white guy who needs to shut the hell up because their opinion is worthless to them, solely on the basis of their color of skin.

Combating racism with racism is a great solution.

Anti-Racism is anti-white!

It's silly because if someone doesn't get that there's racism out there, I doubt it's because due to their skin colour. It's far more likely they've live a sheltered life, or something similar.

Except even rich people of colour suffer from racism, maybe not to the same degree or severity as less rich people of colour.
 
Negative statements are tricky. Does this particular negative statement mean:

A. Atheists believe in Gods based on something else.
B. Atheists believe there are no Gods based on <whatever>.
It means that kind of Atheist does not believe in Gods on the same basis that you don't believe in Santa Clause, Elves and the Tooth Fairy. They say the Standard is to not believe in X until you have evidence for the existence in X.

Anti-Racism is anti-white!
No, telling a person that their opinion is not welcome solely on the basis of their skin color is racist, no matter against who.
 
At first, I rolled my eyes at the phrase, but it does make some sense. I hate the phrase, but it's an important thing to keep in mind. Man, I hate it when I agree with the SJW on some things...
 
It means that kind of Atheist does not believe in Gods on the same basis that you don't believe in Santa Clause, Elves and the Tooth Fairy. They say the Standard is to not believe in X until you have evidence for the existence in X.


No, telling a person that their opinion is not welcome solely on the basis of their skin color is racist, no matter against who.

Nice strawman, but let's get to the nub of this argument; you think i believe white people's opinions on racism are inherently not worthwhile/not welcome now here's what i actually think:

I tend to think that white people telling black people that racism is dead/racism isn't a problem, should infact be ignored and their opinions mocked and laughed at, for being so out of touch. Hell, race is no determining factor on whether i ignore stupid arguments, a black person could make (and have) the argument that LGBT people suffer from no discrimination and i'd equally ignore, mock and laugh at their position.

Something clearer? I can't be more specific since I still don't know what exactly it means :)

Check your priviledge is pretty clear actually, it's not some arcane, unknowable term.
 
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