Cheese, or valid tactic

Sincro

Sincro

Thou hast no Cu, again...
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When you are about to DOW an AI, is it routine for you to sell all your stuff to them for instant gold, knowing that everything you just gave them will be instantly returned, or is that considered too cheesy for regular play?

-Sinc
 
Sincro said:
When you are about to DOW an AI, is it routine for you to sell all your stuff to them for instant gold, knowing that everything you just gave them will be instantly returned, or is that considered too cheesy for regular play?

-Sinc
Click to expand...

On higher difficulty you have to or you cant win, you need all that extra money just to survive(and alls fair, the AI is starting with two settlers and three warriors and techs and gets tech and gold bonuses).

And against people that just wont work.
 
Esperr said:
On higher difficulty you have to or you cant win, you need all that extra money just to survive(and alls fair, the AI is starting with two settlers and three warriors and techs and gets tech and gold bonuses).

And against people that just wont work.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this, but I would recommend it for use starting at Immortal.

Emperor you have much more room to play around immersionly (lol word)
 
My verdict:
Spoiler :
cheese%2Bpixdaus.jpg



But hey, we all do it. It still baffles me why Firaxis let us trade resources for fixed sums though, just like it baffles me why we can buy open borders. It just cries for getting exploited.
 
Really? O_O I thought this isn't common for people here. I found it abusive of game design flaws and chose to never do this. I've beaten Emperor and Immortal without (I can't beat immortal in a straight up all-standard game though. Setup rigged in my favor). But I guess this is why people can beat Diety and I can't? =/

There's gotta be someone who can beat diety without doing this right?
 
Sincro said:
When you are about to DOW an AI, is it routine for you to sell all your stuff to them for instant gold, knowing that everything you just gave them will be instantly returned, or is that considered too cheesy for regular play?

-Sinc
Click to expand...
It's a fair computer exploit.. I was kinda pissed in my recent deity game.. montezuma had like 20+k in gold.. when I had gone to war with him before.. :rolleyes: I gobbled it all up.. but I re-started and on the 2nd go around.. I only had resources that allowed about 10-14k?

Apparently, I had been devalued :mischief: in worth in "the computers" eyes :p

The worst/most unfair "pissed me off" exploit was civ4's technology trading/city'ing bug.. as I remember it.. you just pressed a few buttons in the right way.. and you got all their tech and even cities if I remember right? :p

And because of that exploit.. I had to ask the question.. what's the point in even playing?? :rolleyes:

Then they patched it and I took up the challenge again.. :p

I think the point is if someone leaves a door open.. I'll walk through it.. and the only time, I won't is when the door invalidates the experience/goal of playing that game.. so the civ4 bug/exploit was on that order.. I haven't spotted a civ5 bug like that so far.. though I hear the "huns" have a distinct military advantage with their rams.. it doesn't sound "that over the top" compared to getting with no work/play "whatsoever"... any technologies and cities via diplomacy..

I feel like if you don't take the "exploits" places where you can have a advantage your creating for yourself more work.. I've always thought the challenge was supposed to be you vs. the programmers.. but the truth is today.. the programmers deliver bug filled coded games and so now you have to modify that to choose your modded version or the patched version you can stand.. still I do enjoy the "exploits" before their patched too..

But the truth is if the AI code is really horrible or not much of a challenge.. I can see why you might refrain from certain "advantages" aka create a harder challenge through your choices..

In my first deity game on civ5 ethiopia spammed me hard with 5-15 units by turn 60.. that was a challenge just keeping my cities/turning that around.. I had to go at it 3-6 times.. and after I survived the challenge I just had to be "patient" to actually have my army conquer cities.. like turn 100 maybe.. anyway.. I'll stop yacking :p

One other point.. the only way firaxis/programmers know how to turn up the "challenge" for players is to cheat.. so I don't see why a player shouldn't take every exploit and possibility available to them.. this is why I'm a save and load player.. because I play hard, want to win hard and am willing to seek that perfection/perfect roll of the dice :)

Civ is ultimately just a chess game.. ;)
 
The AI is the way it is not because of lazy coders, but because of money. They could write a better AI, but people would need better CPUs to run the game, higher reqs mean lower sales, simple as that. That is probably true for all strategy games.
 
It's a little bit cheesy but the AI does it as well. Offer them a lump sum for something and they could very well DoW you the next turn.

There is also the classic vanilla "sign an RA and then DoW." You could argue that this is a smart tactic if it drains the coffers of your opponent. (In G&K, it is far less likely since you can only RA your "friends"). However, most of the time players will go out of their way to avoid DoW'ing until after their RA is done. It is quite common to find players annoyed that the AI cancels the RA with a war declaration (especially one turn before fruition).
 
Definitely not a necessary tactic for immortal, but on Diety I think everything is really about trying to exploit whatever you can. Immortal is quite a fair difficulty for better players, especially after G+K.
 
Sincro said:
When you are about to DOW an AI, is it routine for you to sell all your stuff to them for instant gold, knowing that everything you just gave them will be instantly returned, or is that considered too cheesy for regular play?

-Sinc
Click to expand...

It's cheezy, no question about it but apparently acceptable since it has not been fixed.
Is it needed ? Not @deity and surely not on lower lvls.
Does it make things easier ? Sure it does but it rarely decides if one is gonna win or not and since it preceeds DoW it's hardly a desperate act of survival either.

Hardly a routine, most likely a fairly common practise when stepping up to a higher lvl. Once you get comfortable with the lvl you can exclude it from your available tactics and find other methods to deal with nor will you actually miss it then.

G
 
My opinion is that it's no more cheesy than building a navy, or artillery, or bombers, or setting up your army in a good position and letting the AI walk into it to get its units picked off. The AI has weaknesses, we exploit them. In return, the AI gets ridiculous bonuses to gold and happiness. I don't think it's technically possible to play a "fair" game against the AI unless you simply never build a single unit, or control your units as badly as they do theirs.

On the other hand, something like allowing your luxuries to be pillaged repeatedly so you can rake in the gold IS clearly cheesy play, because this is not a weakness of the AI but something that YOU are initiating to abuse gameplay.
 
Yes, it's cheesy and no, it's not required at any level.
Ironically enough, the same people that rant about how easy and stupid AI is, feel comfortable to exploit it even when it's not necessary.

I suspect that what gives to cheese some degree of legitimacy is HoF/GotM games, where it was never banned, since there is no way to check whether players used cheese or not.
 
They should force peace for 10 turns (scaling with gamespeed maybe) after trading like in Civ 4 to prevent this kind of mozarella imo :)
 
PibbZ said:
They should force peace for 10 turns (scaling with gamespeed maybe) after trading like in Civ 4 to prevent this kind of mozarella imo :)
Click to expand...

The problem is you can "trade" by giving civ's 1 gold for nothing and force a peace treaty which is even more broken.
 
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