Chief Justice confirmation poll

[Curufinwe]

Swiss, I ask of you to allow this poll to finish as is, and validate it. The law says "should", which implies a highly relative value (though even "must" is ultimately relative) and thus there is enough room for donsigs interpretation to be acceptable. In the interests of time, please do not make us have another one.

 

[GeorgeOP]

A new one can't be posted, since it's past the deadline. Well, it can be posted but it won't be valid.

 

[Swissempire]

To get technical, the word should is used in auxiliary function to express a request in a polite manner or to soften direct statement, to express condition, to express obligation, propriety, or expediency, to express futurity from a point of view in the past, or to to express what is probable or expected. So technically, it should have been 48 hours.

I'm undecided as to what to do.

Damn you Donsig, you silly silly leperchaun, let this poll be closed!

 

[donsig]

Since Curufinwe has decided not to recuse himself I have voted no in this poll. I urge any citizens who have also been withholding their votes until Curufinwe made his decision to read Curufinwe's decision in the judicial thread and then cast their votes.

 

[Black_Hole]

To get technical, the word should is used in auxiliary function to express a request in a polite manner or to soften direct statement, to express condition, to express obligation, propriety, or expediency, to express futurity from a point of view in the past, or to to express what is probable or expected. So technically, it should have been 48 hours.

I'm undecided as to what to do.

Damn you Donsig, you silly silly leperchaun, let this poll be closed!

Donsig can post any poll he wants, its called Free Speech and is guaranteed by the Constitution. (As long as it doesn't break forum rules)

 

[Swissempire]

But it breaks the LAW. It in it uncorrectness impedes the judiciaries consituional imperative to be speedy. I trying to not have to invalidate it. I want his poll to have merit and standing, i want it to be valid, but if he in attempting to uphold the constituoin breaks the law, i don't know what to do. There is ABSLUTELY NO LEGAL BASIS FOR MAKING THIS LEGAL. IN FACT BY MAKING IT LEGAL, I WOULD BE BREAKING THE LAW.

 

[Black_Hole]

But it breaks the LAW. It in it uncorrectness impedes the judiciaries consituional imperative to be speedy. I trying to not have to invalidate it. I want his poll to have merit and standing, i want it to be valid, but if he in attempting to uphold the constituoin breaks the law, i don't know what to do. There is ABSLUTELY NO LEGAL BASIS FOR MAKING THIS LEGAL. IN FACT BY MAKING IT LEGAL, I WOULD BE BREAKING THE LAW.

Listen to what I have said atleast 3 times:
You have the right as Censor to invalidate this poll, if it truly is not set up properly (which is heavily doubted), however you never have the right to close the poll. Closing the poll is basically censoring what donsig says. And again the Freedom of Speech is guaranteed by the constitution, and your duties as Censor are guaranteed by the Code of Laws. Constitution > Code of Laws.

 

[Swissempire]

heavily doubted by whom, and there has been no legal ruling that i'm breaking his free speech, and he is breaking the constitution twice and the CoL once, so 2.5>maybe1

 

[Black_Hole]

heavily doubted by whom, and there has been no legal ruling that i'm breaking his free speech, and he is breaking the constitution twice and the CoL once, so 2.5>maybe1

So if I have a moderator modify your post, I'm not breaking your freedom of speech?

Okay first off the one in the CoL doesn't matter since we are talking about constitutional issues here and the constitution trumps the CoL.
So what are the 2 laws he is breaking in the constituiton?

Its also funny that you say I can't prove you are breaking the law since I don't have a legal ruling, yet you know donsig broke the law without a legal ruling. I thought you said you weren't the judiciary?

 

[Swissempire]

I'm not the judiciary, i was using my authority as Censor. See the funny ocnversation a way back. Also i didn't modify his post. I closed the poll, then to stop confusion, asked the mods to visually/technicall close it. When they reopened it, i have reopened it to, because i am confused.

The current count is Donsig: Article F Section 3- Article C Section 1 subsection 2. And Article B Section 2, Subsection f, and in the CoL, he breaks Section 8, Article C, Subsection VIA.

Current Count Swissempire: Article B Section 2 Subsection d and you could probably make a case for Article B Section 2 Subsection b, maybe.

Note, these are all alleged, and if you guys feel so seriously about it, bring it to the judiciary

 

[Black_Hole]

I'm not the judiciary, i was using my authority as Censor. See the funny ocnversation a way back. Also i didn't modify his post. I closed the poll, then to stop confusion, asked the mods to visually/technicall close it. When they reopened it, i have reopened it to, because i am confused.

The current count is Donsig: Article F Section 3- Article C Section 1 subsection 2. And Article B Section 2, Subsection f, and in the CoL, he breaks Section 8, Article C, Subsection VIA.

Current Count Swissempire: Article B Section 2 Subsection d and you could probably make a case for Article B Section 2 Subsection b, maybe.

Note, these are all alleged, and if you guys feel so seriously about it, bring it to the judiciary

May you point out where you were given the authority to close someone else's poll?
Second, I have no clue how you can even charge Donsig on those things, for posting a poll.

 

[Swissempire]

I'm not "charging" anyone, i was just responding to the accusations against me

And i quote

I used my mandate to do this

You may say "but see Article C. Section 3. Bullet point 4 of the constituion"

I would say" thats quite a mouthful, but i meet that because so far, citizien input is in favor of me.


You would say "you can't do that"

I would reply "yes i can, see Section B, Article III, Subsection B, Point 1, then look a the Censors procedures where it says i must follow higher law, and look at Section A, Article 6 of the Censors procedure, where to validate i must look at the "the standards in effect when the poll was first created". If you also look at Section B, Article III, Subsection B, Point 1, Part A, you will see i have to do this, by law."

 

[Black_Hole]

I'm not "charging" anyone, i was just responding to the accusations against me

And i quote

Would you mind answering my question?:
Where are you given the right to close polls?

 

[Swissempire]

Under my non-official interpration, see Section B, Article III, Subsection B, Point 1, then look a the Censors procedures where it says i must follow higher law, and look at Section A, Article 6 of the Censors procedure, where to validate i must look at the "the standards in effect when the poll was first created". If you also look at Section B, Article III, Subsection B, Point 1, Part A, you will see i have to do this, by law

 

[Black_Hole]

Under my non-official interpration, see Section B, Article III, Subsection B, Point 1, then look a the Censors procedures where it says i must follow higher law, and look at Section A, Article 6 of the Censors procedure, where to validate i must look at the "the standards in effect when the poll was first created". If you also look at Section B, Article III, Subsection B, Point 1, Part A, you will see i have to do this, by law

The Constitution is also above Censor procedures
Plus invalidating polls is not the same as closing them.

 

[ravensfire]

Censor Swissempire,

May I ask why you did not follow your own procedures on this dispute?

Specifically - "The Censor shall always attempt to resolved disputes over portions of these Procedures with citizens as they arise. If not acceptable resolution may be reached, however, the dispute may be taken to the Judiciary where these Procedures shall be applied as a form of law and ruled upon as such."

-- Ravensfire

 

[Swissempire]

Censor Swissempire,

May I ask why you did not follow your own procedures on this dispute?

Specifically - "The Censor shall always attempt to resolved disputes over portions of these Procedures with citizens as they arise. If not acceptable resolution may be reached, however, the dispute may be taken to the Judiciary where these Procedures shall be applied as a form of law and ruled upon as such."

-- Ravensfire

ACTUALLY Ravensfire, i followed the procedures to THE LETTER, and your accussation is not appreciated. I asked, then begged Donsig to change the poll. Then i attempted to resolve the ocnflict by doing what in my opinion was the right thing, and after that didn't work i went to the judicary. So, what is with the allegation Ravensfire

And I invlaidate this poll pending the Judicial Review

P.S. Ravensfire, I'm hurt

 

[ravensfire]

You're hurt? Sorry, not my problem.

Bluntly - this should have been a JR right from the start. After the 48 hours, get a screen shot and post it with the results. There is a significant question raised in this matter, which is rather upsetting to me as I wrote the section in question.

This entire matter has been handled poorly. With stronger leadership, all of this could have been avoided from the start and most of this madness would be a thing of the past. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.

EDIT: Example of above
-------- BEGIN SAMPLE -------
Following statement gets posted by election supervisor:
Election Results
blah
blah

President - TIED

President election to be resolved via runoff poll. Poll will run for X days, and be public. This will be repeated as many times as needed to resolve the matter.

Empty Offices
Chief Justice - office is declared VACANT. Pending conclusion of the Presidential election, this office will be filled by the President.

The election cycle will continue until all tied elections are resolved
---------- END ----------

This tells everyone what's going on, what's happening next and what's happening in the future. This wasn't done.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Swissempire]

So you acknowledge that i followed the procedures, but now all of this is my fault. Run for Censor next term if my leadership is so bad. Anyway, all of that was posted, and I have done everything you asked and that was in my power. The madness was caused by factors out of my control, but if you need a scapegoat, by all means blame me.

I can see Ravensfire that you aren't strong enough to admit faults in the system and in peoples morals, so people like you need scapegoats, who are people like me who do everything they can. Its okay Ravensfire, i understand

 

[ravensfire]

*sigh* You just don't get it, do you.

-- Ravensfire