Chief Justice confirmation poll

[Swissempire]

Yes Black_Hole, i declared the poll valid and closed, then proceded into the needed things thread and request the poll be technically closed. This was all me, no blame should go to the mods.

 

[Black_Hole]

Yes Black_Hole, i declared the poll valid and closed, then proceded into the needed things thread and request the poll be technically closed. This was all me, no blame should go to the mods.

You just violated B.2 and C.2, of the Constitution. Donsig has the freedom to post any poll he wants, if you wanted you could declare it invalid, but you can't close it.

 

[Curufinwe]

Donsig referred to it as a confirmation poll, not an advisory or consultative one, thus, he must follow the rules for such a poll. Given that, in the eyes of the one who determines the validity of the poll, a confirmation poll should not extend past 48 hours, the change would be bringing the poll back into accordance with the constitution. Of course people can post advisory polls at any time, but then they shouldn't refer to it by a name that doesn't apply.

 

[Black_Hole]

Donsig referred to it as a confirmation poll, not an advisory or consultative one, thus, he must follow the rules for such a poll. Given that, in the eyes of the one who determines the validity of the poll, a confirmation poll should not extend past 48 hours, the change would be bringing the poll back into accordance with the constitution. Of course people can post advisory polls at any time, but then they shouldn't refer to it by a name that doesn't apply.

if it doesn't apply invalidate it, don't deny his right to freedom of speech and his write to vote.

 

[Swissempire]

But he stated he posted a confirmation poll, so i made it a valid one. I beleive i made a right and legal decision, but if you do not feel so, get me recalled. i fail to see how i violated either. don't just post sections, explain your postion. In fact i upheld C.2 which is an incomplete section, but gives strict rules as to the types of poll. The confiramtion poll, which is a type of poll, requires a 48 hour time limit. And i violated no ones rights here, so your accusation is baseless

 

[Swissempire]

if it doesn't apply invalidate it, don't deny his right to freedom of speech and his write to vote.

i have violated neither, and the fact that you must revert to hyperbole further proves i was in the right. If you feel so strongly, post a recall and we'll see what the majority feels

 

[Curufinwe]

Or, a Judicial Review, though I think we have lots of those.

 

[Swissempire]

Or, a Judicial Review, though I think we have lots of those.

True, true, but i think a recall would be better, becuase it would express the view of the citizenry and if i truely did(which i didn't) violate the consituion, the citiziens have a right to send me packing.

 

[donsig]

why the heck did you post a poll if you were undecided...geesh talk about screwing up the term.

Honestly now it does look like you had a case of "sourgrape-itis".

Not sour grapes. If Curufinwe does not recuse himself then I would have voted against his confirmation as that would have indicated he was not fit to be CJ. Had he recused himself then he would have shown to me that he is very capable of being CJ and derserving of my *yes* vote. Despite the implications of some of my fellow citizen's I am not out to create dissention. I feel as though I've gone out of my way to try to show Curufinwe what he should be able to clearly see on his own. I also have shown much more patience than many of my fellow citizens. Rather than give Curufinwe two days to make up his mind I was prepared to give him four. That option seems now to have been removed by some unseen force. (Note - there are a few posts I haven't read yet so if the mystery of the poll closing has already been explained I will catch up shortly.)

 

[donsig]

Yes Black_Hole, i declared the poll valid and closed, then proceded into the needed things thread and request the poll be technically closed. This was all me, no blame should go to the mods.

I have posted a request in the needed things thread asking that the poll be reopened with it's original closing date. Would you please be so kind as to consent to my request so the moderators do not have to step into the middle of this? We have rules for doing things in the demogame. If you feel I have violated any feel free to file a citizen complaint against me. If you'd quit trying to be the judiciary yourself and joined in requesting Curufinwe to recuse himself for one JR he might do that and then we could get down to all the CC's we want to file against each other.

 

[Black_Hole]

i have violated neither, and the fact that you must revert to hyperbole further proves i was in the right. If you feel so strongly, post a recall and we'll see what the majority feels

A recall is used because you don't like the person in office, a Citizen Complaint is when they break the law.
Donsig (and possibly others) where under the impression the poll would end on March 20, not March 18 so they held their votes. Also it is Donsig's right to post whatever he wants as long as it doesn't break forum rules (Freedom of Speech)

 

[Swissempire]

I have posted a request in the needed things thread asking that the poll be reopened with it's original closing date. Would you please be so kind as to consent to my request so the moderators do not have to step into the middle of this? We have rules for doing things in the demogame. If you feel I have violated any feel free to file a citizen complaint against me. If you'd quit trying to be the judiciary yourself and joined in requesting Curufinwe to recuse himself for one JR he might do that and then we could get down to all the CC's we want to file against each other.

So now i'm the judiciary becuase i don;t agree with your interpetation of the law law against mine???????? We do have rules for doing things in the demogame, and i followed them. I would gladly consent to the reopening of the poll IF YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE A CONFIRMATION POLL. We do have rules for things in the demogame, so you may file a JR/CC against me or my actions. Please go right ahead. There is no reason for me to file a CC against you. You haven't violated anything,neither have i, unless attempting to help is a violation, unless it is a violation to follow the consituion.

Here is my defense:

I used my mandate to do this

You may say "but see Article C. Section 3. Bullet point 4 of the constituion"

I would say" thats quite a mouthful, but i meet that because so far, citizien input is in favor of me. It is 3-2 so far"

You would say," you violated his free speech"
I would say"how? show me"

You would say "you can't do that"

I would reply "yes i can, see Section B, Article III, Subsection B, Point 1, then look a the Censors procedures where it says i must follow higher law, and look at Section A, Article 6 of the Censors procedure, where to validate i must look at the "the standards in effect when the poll was first created". If you also look at Section B, Article III, Subsection B, Point 1, Part A, you will see i have to do this, by law."

You would say" You can't interpret the constitution or CoL or the Censor Procedures"

I would say "Neither can you, so if you feel so strongly, take it to the Judiciary"

You would say "I hate you Swissempire"

I would reply "Hate is a strong word, why can't we all get along"

 

[Black_Hole]

So now i'm the judiciary becuase i don;t agree with your interpetation of the law law against mine???????? We do have rules for doing things in the demogame, and i followed them. I would gladly consent to the reopening of the poll IF YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE A CONFIRMATION POLL. We do have rules for things in the demogame, so you may file a JR/CC against me or my actions. Please go right ahead. There is no reason for me to file a CC against you. You haven't violated anything,neither have i, unless attempting to help is a violation, unless it is a violation to follow the consituion.

Here is my defense:

I used my mandate to do this

You may say "but see Article C. Section 3. Bullet point 4 of the constituion"

I would say" thats quite a mouthful, but i meet that because so far, citizien input is in favor of me. It is 3-2 so far"

You would say," you violated his free speech"
I would say"how? show me"

You would say "you can't do that"

I would reply "yes i can, see Section B, Article III, Subsection B, Point 1, then look a the Censors procedures where it says i must follow higher law, and look at Section A, Article 6 of the Censors procedure, where to validate i must look at the "the standards in effect when the poll was first created". If you also look at Section B, Article III, Subsection B, Point 1, Part A, you will see i have to do this, by law."

You would say" You can't interpret the constitution or CoL or the Censor Procedures"

I would say "Neither can you, so if you feel so strongly, take it to the Judiciary"

You would say "I hate you Swissempire"

I would reply "Hate is a strong word, why can't we all get along"

your little example is quite funny, however the Constitution trumps the CoL, meaning the Right to Free Speech and to Voting is above the duties of the Censor

 

[donsig]

So now i'm the judiciary becuase i don;t agree with your interpetation of the law law against mine???????? We do have rules for doing things in the demogame, and i followed them

No, not because you don't agree with my interpretation of the laws. Because you are doing things based on your interpretation and expect me to stand up and salute you and your actions as legal without even letting the cases get before a judiciary we can all accept as valid.

Worse than that, you totally go outside our laws and constitution an invoke the higher power of the moderators. Yeah, I can't blame them for acting on your request in the needed things thread. But that request was totally inappropriate and unworthy of an official whom we have entrusted with the responsibilities of Censor.

 

[Swissempire]

No, not because you don't agree with my interpretation of the laws. Because you are doing things based on your interpretation and expect me to stand up and salute you and your actions as legal without even letting the cases get before a judiciary we can all accept as valid.

Worse than that, you totally go outside our laws and constitution an invoke the higher power of the moderators. Yeah, I can't blame them for acting on your request in the needed things thread. But that request was totally inappropriate and unworthy of an official whom we have entrusted with the responsibilities of Censor.

I don't expect you to salute or even agree with me, but if you don't, you can take it to the judiciary. I have backed up my decision with evidence, but if you don't think i did the legal thing, by all means take it to the judiciary. I didn't invoke the power of the mods, i just requested the technically close the already legally closed poll.

 

[GeorgeOP]

I think SwissEmpire was put into a bad position. If he closes the poll to make it legal, some people say he violated free speech. If he leaves it be, he must say the poll is invalid. Then he's restricting free speech on a technicallity. I don't think any decision Swissy made would be appreciated by everyone. Let's not start a fight about the Censor right now.

I voted no on principle. I was obviously in the minority, so now it's time to move on. In around a week or less, we'll be starting the process of electing new people. Although it's brave to stand on principle, imho it's time to move on and just let the term end.

In a proper democracy one or two people shouldn't bring down the whole government. The results of this poll show that the majority think he should be CJ. Unless I see 10 people saying they wanted to vote no but couldn't because it was closed, I will stand by this stance.

 

[donsig]

I don't expect you to salute or even agree with me, but if you don't, you can take it to the judiciary. I have backed up my decision with evidence, but if you don't think i did the legal thing, by all means take it to the judiciary. I didn't invoke the power of the mods, i just requested the technically close the already legally closed poll.

Backed with evidence... already legally closed. And you wonder why I say you are the judiciary!

But the really funny part is take it to the judiciary!

I've been working for a long time for a judiciary I can believe in so I would be able to take some of these matters to them. I'm sorry, but I cannot believe in nor respect a judiciary that allows one of it's members to make a legal ruling on the validity of his own judicial position. A judicial official (whom we decided not to be recallable) must hold him or her self to the highest standards when it comes to conflict of interest or even the appearence thereof.

 

[Swissempire]

I'm sorry, but I cannot believe in nor respect a judiciary that allows one of it's members to make a legal ruling on the validity of his own judicial position. A judicial official (whom we decided not to be recallable) must hold him or her self to the highest standards when it comes to conflict of interest or even the appearence thereof.

I'm sure all the judicary will resign and lose a ton of sleep over the lose of your respect because they didn't fall in line with you interpretation

But the first part of the post was a really funny

I appreciate the satire. Maybe by intrepting the constituiton is a little judicial, but if you don't accept my interpretation, you can take it to the actual judiciary.

P.S. That wasn't sarcasm, i really did find it funny

 

[Nobody]

We* don.t need to be so Snarky, lets just keep it to the legal channels. The Chief Justice has been confirmed. And it is his decision if he wants to appionted a Pro Tempor to a case insted of Himself. If Donsig wants to take it further there are clearly legal options avliable. But insulting the Judicary every step is not the way and people attacking back is just as bad.

*we=everyone involved.

Edit:would have though that the word for a female dog is against the forum rules. Thats why i underlined Snarky (which i dont exact know what it means) when i meant Female doggy.

 

[Swissempire]

Damn, it got reopened. I'm not sure what to do. hmmm. I have no idea what to do!! Should i stand by my validation and closure, or what another day, invalidate it, only to have anew one posted which would further delay the judiciary.