Chieftain: Huge Map: every AI possible

LivingDog

Warlord
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
139
I would like some help so I don't lose my status. I started this map b/c it was suggested that I switch to more than 1 AI ... 13 is more than 1. :eek:

I wasn't even on the radar when it began. I moved up to position 2 in Machiavelli's History of the World, and as of this last image's date (140 AD?) I was #1:


Now it's been some time and I am starting to get nervous about my cities to the NE. (I attached the game.) I feel like they will be the first to go since I made the mistake of ignoring them for so long. My questions are:
  • how do I build them up so that I don't lose my only source of iron?? Should I build more cities in that area? Should I instead build more Troops (Swordsmen and Pikemen are available)? :confused:
  • how do I get that southern most AI city w/o a war? It can't grow... is this a waiting game? I'm tempted to start a war in order to get Tula, and then immediately declare peace when the AI is willing to listen.

Thanks in advance for any help you may give me.


Thanks to ImageShack.us for the free image hosting.
 

Attachments

Now it's been some time and I am starting to get nervous about my cities to the NE. (I attached the game.) I feel like they will be the first to go since I made the mistake of ignoring them for so long.

Oh, this looks nice ... :) Do you mean NE or NW? Memphis et al is NW, Dallas and San Diego are NE, and you shouldn't need to worry about them too much.

how do I build them up so that I don't lose my only source of iron?? Should I build more cities in that area? Should I instead build more Troops (Swordsmen and Pikemen are available)? :confused:
Culture. Lots and lots of it - Libraries and Temples, don't bother with Colosseums.

how do I get that southern most AI city w/o a war? It can't grow... is this a waiting game? I'm tempted to start a war in order to get Tula, and then immediately declare peace when the AI is willing to listen.
If you want it without war, rush-build Libraries and Temples in the bordering cities - in a while it should flip to you.

Thanks in advance for any help you may give me.
You may have bitten off more than you can chew :evil:

  • You're a Republic, but you have garrisons *everywhere* that serve no purpose besides making you militarily strong compared to your enemies and eating into your money. You don't get PO bonuses from Garrisons, so most of those units should be disbanded or moved to the borders so you can kill stuff.
  • Miami, Richmond, and Cleveland have nonsensical builds going on - they're size 1, won't grow for several more turns, yet you're building Workers. Unless you want to be rid of the cities (in which case simply abandoning them might be better), you aren't helping yourself any.
  • You don't have any Embassies (well, you have two, with the Maya and the Persians, but that's not enough). You should have embassies with everyone, particularly since they let you form Military Alliances, which are a great help on higher difficulties.
  • Cities aren't producing things they should be. For example, you have New York building a Trebuchet, but it has a Barracks, so you should have it construct offensive units instead. You're building a Courthouse in Washington, but that won't help anything - CH reduce Corruption, but Capitals have no Corruption! You also have Colosseums (or are building them) in places that don't yet have Marketplaces (and as you have 5 Luxes, Marketplaces would help you out a *LOT* more.
  • In general, it's better to build Offensive units (Swords and Maces) than Defensive ones (Spears and Pikes), as they're considered more dangerous by the AI.
  • I just checked a city, and when I started moving citizens, I was asked if I wanted to stop the governor; you should always be controlling your citizens yourself. Let the AI place citizens as it will, but move things around if you don't like it. That pop-up is annoying ....
  • No Harbor in Washington?
  • What VC were you planning on?
  • FOR THE LOVE OF THE GODS, PUT "ALWAYS WAIT AT END OF TURN ON!" :cry: Oh, and the Japanese beat you to Sun Tzu's. And the Persians cascaded into KT.
  • Automated Workers are also something of a bad idea. You don't have enough Workers as it is, I think.

Everyone is either at tech parity with you, practically broke, or ahead of you in tech. Basically this means that warfare is going to be your preferred expansion method in the short-term. I don't like the Aztecs, so I'm going to declare War on them (1400 AD) and see what happens ....
 
I took a look at the save.

First - looks like the Governor is on. I'd turn that off and manage cities manually.
Second - your cities are placed really far apart. I would add one 2W of Washington, one on the peninsula NE of Washington, one on the coast near New Orleans' oases, and probably one between Richmond and Miami.
Third - you have way too many buildings in your cities. Instead of using Colosseums and Temples, try using the luxury slider or limiting the growth of your outlying towns. They'll never get many shields due to corruption anyway, so it doesn't make sense to put a lot of effort into improving them.
Fourth - you have too many units. I'd disband all your Warriors and Archers and some of your Spearmen, focusing on New York, New Orleans, Boston, Denver, Los Angeles, and Washington.
Fifth - you have a lot of Regular military units. I'd build Barracks before building military in a city (except for Trebuchets; a barracks doesn't matter for those).
Sixth - your Workers are thinly-spread and VERY far from your core. I'd stack them into groups of three (to build Roads in one turn or Mines in two on grassland) or four (to Irrigate in one turn). I'd also bring them back towards Washington; your closer-in cities could use more improvements.
Seventh - Cleveland, Richmond, and Las Vegas are all building Workers, but it'll be several turns before they can complete those builds. In the case of Las Vegas, you'll end up paying 25 shields for that Worker! I'd switch those out to other builds, and make some Workers in larger cities.


Re: getting Tula, I'd wait 19 turns before declaring war (you have ongoing deals for Horses and Ivory with the Aztecs). I'd also have a few Swordsmen and Medieval Infantry in Seattle to take Teotihuacan -- it would smooth out your borders. Take a look at Tlalmanalco, too -- if you took that city, you'd have a direct route to your Iron colony. I'd put all my Horsemen just outside the culture borders of that city and charge them in upon declaring war.
 
1400 AD: Irritate the Aztecs by demanding Tula until they get Furious. I would have simply Declared, but there are two Workers in Aztec territory. That and for some reason you're trading him Ivory and Horses. What.

1410 AD: The Aztecs have a Worker in American Territory, and LA's Borders have increased :)

1415: They agreed to move the Worker (or disbanded him?), so I can't do anything without breaking the deal you made with them for Horses. ... Oh well. Declare :D

Take Teotihuacan. Turn on all the animation options so I don't get lost.

1420: Loss of contact with the far colonies sends Washington into Disorder and stops WLTKD in several cities. Tula is taken. Consider bringing in the Persians against the Aztecs, but decide against it.

1425: Take Atzcapotzalco. This restores the connection between the main cities and the colonies. Successfully attack Tenochtitlan 3 times with MDI. Take Calixtlahuaca.
IBT Lose Wines.

1430: Two successful MDI attacks capture Tenochtitlan and the Great Library. And a Worker and a Settler. I decide that after taking Tlaxcala (for the Dyes) I'll see if the Aztecs will make Peace.

1435: GL nets Chivalry, work on Gunpowder (at 10% Science) is begun; it will take 47 turns, but the 152 gpt will be useful for rushing Libraries and/or Courthouses. Oh, bad news - Cultural expansion on the part of the Incans has now absorbed the Iron Colony, leaving you without a supply! Almost makes me wish I hadn't bought Monotheism from Theodora :/ Oh well, if the current batch of MDI can't break the Aztecs, elbows and Trebs can.

1445: Tlaxcala fell either this turn or the last one :shrug:

1450: Tlatelolco falls and is burned (for the lulz, pretty much). Kansas City's cultural borders were pushed back, but then pushed back themselves. I have changed my mind - Tlalmenalco is too close for comfort, so it will also be destroyed before peace is sought with the Aztecs.

1460: Cultural Expansion reclaims the Iron.

1465: Tlalmenalco and its sister city near Kansas City razed, the Aztecs are granted peace.

Edit: Attachments was being buggy; if you want to see what things look like, here's the save:
 
I went ahead and made a bunch of changes and re-saved the game. Here's what I did:

(edit: Nice turnset, ChaosArbiter :thumbsup:)

-----------------


Look around and make some suggestions

Change Washington to a Settler
Change New York to a Marketplace.
Reassign the citizens to different tiles in the New York-Atlanta-Seattle area.
Change St. Louis to a Palace, prebuilding for (hopefully) Leo's. Plan to bring workers back to build mines around the city.

Detroit is at its size limit. Switch it to an Aqueduct so that it can grow.
Switch New Orleans to a Market (losing 5 shields, but oh well).
Change Denver to a Barracks; it'll be a good place to train troops when it grows a few more times.
Change Cincinnati to a Treb (and note that it needs some irrigation).
MM Dallas for growth (move citizen from forest to mined grassland).
Memphis is building a Pike, but it doesn't have a Barracks. I change it to a Worker instead.
Change Los Angeles to a Barracks (same reason as Denver).

Change Cleveland to a Treb; it needs to grow before it can produce a Worker.
Change Kansas City and San Diego to build Trebs instead of the Libraries.
Change Richmond from a Worker to a Treb.
Change Las Vegas from a Worker to a Treb.
Change Houston to Barracks.

Disband some units:
* Warriors
* Archers
* Most of the regular Spears:
- in Los Angeles
- in New Orleans
- in Atlanta
- in Chicago
- in Philadelphia
- in Dallas
- in Texas City
- in Buffalo

Disband some Vet spears, too, in Seattle, St. Louis, Chicago, New York, and Miami, plus two in San Diego and two in Texas City.
Cancel Right of Passage with the Maya. RoP generally isn't needed.
Cancel the Gems deal with Japan. They're worth more than 5gpt.
 
I copied, pasted and printed all 4 replies. I need to absorb everything you guys just said - so give me a while.

thx again
 
Yes, it is rather a lot all at once. I think there are some mistakes I made in my turnset, so I'll try to enumerate them ...

* I didn't mess around with the Workers much, if at all. There are several places where Roads and improvement would have been better than hacking away at the Jungle, but I let them stay.

* I broke the deal for Horses. Now, I don't know if you were gifting them or if they were part of a deal, but if you load my save and keep playing from it, you may have a very hard time trading Strategic Resources for anything (not that you should get in the habit of doing that - unless you're actively using an AI, it's much weaker than you, or it's threatening you with destruction, you shouldn't give it Strat Resources if you can help it).

* I didn't build Settlers - particularly with the razing of the Aztec city west of Tenochtitlan, there is a lot of empty space around for cities to be built. You could fit 2-3 cities in that newly-cleared area, in addition to the places Elephantium noted.

* I didn't sell any structures. Selling the Colosseums would have helped a bit with cash, although I'm not sure it would make a huge difference for the turnset I played; although with more Markets and the new Dyes, they aren't as necessary.
Somewhat related, although not so much of a problem, I didn't build any Aqueducts - if you are in a Republic, you *need* Cities, since they provide much improved unit Support over Towns. This is also why you want Luxuries+Marketplaces, particularly at higher difficulties - the higher difficulties give you fewer Content citizens, Luxuries are a free source of Happiness (no Upkeep), and Markets increase your Luxury Happiness increase as well as increasing your already formidable Commerce, which means you have more income for using the Luxury slider.

* I didn't set any prebuilds or builds for Leo's - IIRC, you can get it in 60 turns, although I don't think that was with the most productive city working on it, and I didn't bother checking to see if anyone was already working on it. That's another reason for Embassies (which I also didn't establish, despite my advice) - you'll be able to Investigate cities, so you can check what cities are building what Wonder, then Investigate the city(ies) to see if you can beat them to it.

* Didn't disband many units, although I did use them, and a few died. Not so much of a problem, as more cities = more support, and fewer units = lower support. Of course, I did build a few, but .... :)

I think that's everything ... although Elephantium's last post pointed out something you probably know but which should get mentioned: Disbanding a unit in a city will get you a certain number of shields, which go toward whatever's being built (as long as it's not a Wonder or other non-Rushable building). This is good for cutting time off a building project, but it's also usable for rushing things - rushing costs twice as much per shield from an empty box than a box with shields in it, so you can disband a unit in a city then Rush the rest for much cheaper than you'd have to pay if you tried to rush it immediately.
 
Can you post a 4000 BC save so I can play to you're current spot. Lanzelot and somebody else did that in this thread for me, it really helped. Actually, start another game, and play to 10 AD, then post a save from 4000 BC, 1000 BC, and 10 AD. I will do the same then, on the same game, and we can compare notes. A turnlog from you would be helpful, I will make one, but it is a long process to make one. It adds a lot of game time.
 
First off I played my own game from 1390 (i.e. sans any changes) and used your four posts (#2-4) to continue play. I took it to 1550 AD when I felt things were getting out of hand for me. But what I have learned by doing this has made the game much more meaningful.

I see now that the way *I* want to play the game is by conquering territory with as little conflict as possible ... unless I *KNOW* I have a victory. :scan: I enjoy building much more than I realized, so a risky conflict is not my style of play for this game. (L4D2? I'll jump in risk be damned! :D )

That being said, here is my reply to the above posts:

ChaosArbiter: (grats on becoming a CivFan "King")

  1. Tula fell like a hot knife slicing through warm butter... I hurried temples in both neighboring cities and ... it's now called Tulsa :lol: Fell in like 1 (2?) turns.
    ...
  2. Garrisons: I have played this game quite a bit since 2006, and EVERY time I have an un-Garrisoned city, the AI moves passed all my protected cities and takes it in one move. However, on this map, things are peaceful so I have been Disbanding them one after another - in favor of Growth-producing buildings. But maybe I need to learn to play the War aspect of this game b4 I give up this Defensive strategy.
    ...
  3. Embassies: I didn't do anything with them b/c I *forgot* that I have a Political Advisor! *sigh*... next advance.
    ...
  4. Cities: yes, I changed them around and even chose the Production list in the Governor's window. ("Zoom to <city>" -> "Talk to Governor" -> "Production") Now my southern cities have become "Settler factories" and I am getting 1 every turn.)
    ...
  5. Troops: I see now that the Spear and Pike are good b4 the Sword and Melee troops appear. Once I have them then I can disband them. NOTE: Warriors can be upgraded to the Ancient Infantry, so I was keeping them for that.
    ...
  6. Citizens: how do I place them? I clicked on a few squares in the city view and it only seemed to flip from one image of food/gold/shields to another.
    ...
  7. Harbor in Washington: done.
    ...
  8. VC: say what?? I am a fan of acronyms. In fact when I threw a party for the students in my department I called it "TFEPDP..." But to a newbie like me only a few of them are obvious, e.g. "CH" Charles Henry, "VC" Viet Cong, "MDI" Military Dustrial Implex... so if you could perhaps give a vowel, like "Trp" = Troops... or maybe a link to a list of the Civ acronyms, that would be cool. As for those three I listed, I figured them out no problem :rolleyes:
    ...
  9. Sun Tzu's: yeah, I didn't realize that there are only one of each for the Great Wonders (GW?) in the game. Next time ... (thx!)
    ...
  10. Aztecs: you declared a Military War, I declared a Culture War! ... and the bot didn't suspect a thing! :lol: So ok, I didn't connect to my *NW* cities by 1465 but have made other cities my home - like Tennesee City and Tulsa (nee Tula)

----

Elephantium:

  • Governors: not off, but I am controlling the Production List when I think of it. Given more time and experience I think it will be off 100% of the time.
    ...
  • Cities: they are far apart for different reasons:
    • the AI was doing it!
    • there were valuable resources I wanted to grab b4 the AI did... it's worse than I am!
    • I'm filling in the space now using my southern cities as "Settler factories"
    ...
  • Luxury Slider: there's one for each city?? Sorry, I didn't catch that while I was playing this latest advance... so what/where is it? Or do you mean in my Trade Advisor's window? I use that when I have plenty of G.
    ...
  • Troops: see my reply to KCA (King ChaosArbiter) above.
    ...
  • Workers: yes, I changed a few of them around to stacks. What I realized after making all the other changes is that - in one turn - I can do a WHOLE BUNCH! of moves - including starting to stack the workers! ... which I didn't do but will do in future games.
    ...
  • Cleveland, Richmond, and Las Vegas: yes, I switched the production around. They have grown in size. One is only 2 (ignored - mae culpa) but the other two are 4 and 5.
    ...
  • Tulsa (nee "Tula"): no waiting when you go Cultural on the AI's butt! :lol: BTW, when it fell, one lone worker was left behind. How can I absorb him into my Collective? :D
    ...
  • changes.SAV: only played my 1390 using as many of the above comments as I could handle. I will look at it - hopefully - soon.

----

GamezRule:

  • I can start your *excellent* suggestion after I finish this game.
    ...
  • A turnlog? ... we should decide how to do it... I prefer lists, columns etc. Something organized. I have a provincial mind and cannot think in other shapes other than linear! :}
    ...
  • Do you have MS Office 2007? That would be awesome to make the turnlog in there.

==



Thanks guys for the great help - ur all "kings" in my book... except for GamezRule - who has given me CIVFAN HOMEWORK!!! (lololol 8)
.
.
 

Attachments

ChaosArbiter: (grats on becoming a CivFan "King")
Heh, thank you. :)

Garrisons: I have played this game quite a bit since 2006, and EVERY time I have an un-Garrisoned city, the AI moves passed all my protected cities and takes it in one move. However, on this map, things are peaceful so I have been Disbanding them one after another - in favor of Growth-producing buildings. But maybe I need to learn to play the War aspect of this game b4 I give up this Defensive strategy.
Yes, the AI does know where *all* your units are at any given time (that is, all the time), as well as where all the resources are. This actually makes it easier to abuse the AI, especially once you get Rails: Leave one city open, and the AI almost always goes for it. If you garrison it heavily, and leave another city open, the AI usually switches targets.

In any case, the way to do this without abusing the AI is to simply keep track of them - that's part of why Rights of Passage aren't such good ideas. The AI doesn't usually RoP-rape, but it's annoying when it does do it. Anyway, keep an eye on any AIs in your territory (they *shouldn't* be in it anyway - particularly when you've got such a nice spot like that, the AI has no business being in your territory unless they want war), and either use units to keep them away from important places, or give them Remove Your Troops (aka "Boot Order").

Troops: I see now that the Spear and Pike are good b4 the Sword and Melee troops appear. Once I have them then I can disband them. NOTE: Warriors can be upgraded to the Ancient Infantry, so I was keeping them for that.
Spearmen actually aren't terribly useful at the best of times - Archers are pump your Military Strength more, and Swordsmen are more useful overall. Even Warriors are more useful generally, since they're cheaper. Unless you're gearing up for it, Ancient Warfare is usually not the best strategy, and even then *you* want to be attacking, not be attacked.

Citizens: how do I place them? I clicked on a few squares in the city view and it only seemed to flip from one image of food/gold/shields to another.
If you click on a worked tile, the citizen is removed and becomes an Entertainer (by default - you can change it to Taxmen, Scientists, and later on Police and Civil Engineers). The only reason I noticed it is because I tend to click on the center 'city' tile (which causes the Governor to auto-place citizens to manage them), and when I did it on yours, I got the popup asking me if I wanted to manage them myself.

On lower levels, it doesn't make much of a difference, but once you get past Regent, managing your citizens is more important, and it's absolutely required if you want to get a Settler Factory going, since you have to switch Food and Production tiles to something else to make the math work.

VC: say what?? I am a fan of acronyms. In fact when I threw a party for the students in my department I called it "TFEPDP..." But to a newbie like me only a few of them are obvious, e.g. "CH" Charles Henry, "VC" Viet Cong, "MDI" Military Dustrial Implex... so if you could perhaps give a vowel, like "Trp" = Troops... or maybe a link to a list of the Civ acronyms, that would be cool. As for those three I listed, I figured them out no problem :rolleyes:

Heh. Ah, there is a dictionary of Civ Acronyms around here somewhere ...
Hm. I found this:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/reference/acronyms.php
which isn't what I was looking for, but it does have Civ3 Acronyms. Anyway, VC is Victory Condition - how you're planning on winning the game. MDI is Medieval Infantry (because MI is Mechanized Infantry - the Medieval Infantry didn't arrive until Play the World, so MI had already been taken). CH should have been obvious from the context, but it's Courthouse.
Luxury Slider: there's one for each city?? Sorry, I didn't catch that while I was playing this latest advance... so what/where is it? Or do you mean in my Trade Advisor's window? I use that when I have plenty of G.
He meant the one in the Advisor screen. Frequently, setting the slider to 10% is cheaper or more effective than building a Temple in every city.

Tulsa (nee "Tula"): no waiting when you go Cultural on the AI's butt! :lol: BTW, when it fell, one lone worker was left behind. How can I absorb him into my Collective? :D
Slave Workers should be kept as Workers since they cost no upkeep, but if you want to have him join a city (he'll be the nationality he was before, BTW - so if he says "Worker (Aztec)," he'll join a city as an Aztec citizen, not an American.

A turnlog? ... we should decide how to do it... I prefer lists, columns etc. Something organized. I have a provincial mind and cannot think in other shapes other than linear! :}
While one can use an outside program to write a turnlog, most people just post them here. Good examples can be seen in Succession Games (which are also a *great* way to learn some neat tricks, since the players usually describe what they're doing for the readers), like this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=358266

The first turnlog is post 5 (CommandoBob), although that's a bit more detailed than a normal one - a closer example of a normal turnlog would be post 12 (ThERat). The exact level of detail is up to the individual poster, however.

Thanks guys for the great help - ur all "kings" in my book... except for GamezRule - who has given me CIVFAN HOMEWORK!!! (lololol 8).

Heh :p Haven't checked the new save yet, but I'll look at it right away (and careful, Elephantium's got a huge lead on me - less than a hundred posts from Deity!).
 
He meant the one in the Advisor screen. Frequently, setting the slider to 10% is cheaper or more effective than building a Temple in every city.

Just to exand on what ChaosArbiter is saying here - once you have built the temple you are stuck paying 1gpt for that one happy face. Sure, you can sell it later if you don't need it, but then you lose most of the resources that it took to build it in the first place.

By comparison, you can use the luxury slider to manipulate the happiness of the people and it costs nothing to build. One of the goals (and necessities at higher levels) is to have all of the luxuries (well, one of each) so that marketplaces give maximum happiness. Eventually you won't need those temples, so each one that you build now is something you will not need/want later.

One exception might be if you are playing a religious Civ. I do tend to build a few temples for quick happiness in cities I know are going to be large or need quick culture to expand a border.

As a new player it can be very scary to use the luxury - it took a long time for me to get over that.
 
One exception might be if you are playing a religious Civ. I do tend to build a few temples for quick happiness in cities I know are going to be large or need quick culture to expand a border.

Or if you crapped out on Luxuries ... trying to manage a small but well-fed civilization on 2 luxuries can be worse on your economy than Temple + Cathedral. My German game (on Regent), you can tell which cities I built before I started warfare expansion because they all have Cathedrals.
 
If you plan to go with Democracy eventually, temples are worth having. I find that in Democracy, often money is object, but every single happy face I can squeeze out to guard against war-weariness is priceless.

A Democracy's war-weariness isn't a problem that is really faced until some time in the Industrial age, when cities are expanding beyond 12 population. So if you don't need the culture, you can save them to being the last buildings built, or if you have tightly-packed cities that don't support a lot of workers, then maybe you don't need them at all.
 
If you have no objections, I will post a 4000 BC save for you to play, that way I can be sure of all the settings. If you win this game, I will do it on Warlord, if you lose, I will do it on Chieftain, or possibly warlord anyways depending on the state of things. I also suggest you get a playing aide, I prefer Civ Assist II, to help you with Micromanaging. It doesn't tell you any information that you couldn't already figure out, but it does make it much simpler to catalog. If you are not on Windows XP, it will take a little work to get it running.
 
Elephantium:

  • Governors: not off, but I am controlling the Production List when I think of it. Given more time and experience I think it will be off 100% of the time.
    ...
  • Cities: they are far apart for different reasons:
    • the AI was doing it!
    • there were valuable resources I wanted to grab b4 the AI did... it's worse than I am!
    • I'm filling in the space now using my southern cities as "Settler factories"
    ...
  • Luxury Slider: there's one for each city?? Sorry, I didn't catch that while I was playing this latest advance... so what/where is it? Or do you mean in my Trade Advisor's window? I use that when I have plenty of G.
    ...
  • Troops: see my reply to KCA (King ChaosArbiter) above.
    ...
  • Workers: yes, I changed a few of them around to stacks. What I realized after making all the other changes is that - in one turn - I can do a WHOLE BUNCH! of moves - including starting to stack the workers! ... which I didn't do but will do in future games.
    ...
  • Cleveland, Richmond, and Las Vegas: yes, I switched the production around. They have grown in size. One is only 2 (ignored - mae culpa) but the other two are 4 and 5.
    ...
  • Tulsa (nee "Tula"): no waiting when you go Cultural on the AI's butt! :lol: BTW, when it fell, one lone worker was left behind. How can I absorb him into my Collective? :D
    ...
  • changes.SAV: only played my 1390 using as many of the above comments as I could handle. I will look at it - hopefully - soon.

  • Governors: Turning them off gains you a surprising amount of efficiency, but it's a lot more trouble to micromanage things -- it does take getting used to.
  • Cities: It's a good idea to settle far away when you need to guarantee access to a resource, but in general you're well-served by placing cities with 2-3 tiles between them. Again, this is an area where you have to micromanage a bit -- place the cities too close together, and they'll get stuck around Size 8 until you get railroads. Place them too far apart, and you'll be wasting half your empire's tiles until you get Hospitals (which come pretty late, if ever, in many games).

    Good plan to fill in some space. :thumbsup:
  • Luxury Slider: No, there's only one -- on the F1 screen. You're usually better off bumping that up 10-20% instead of building temples or hiring clowns. Science goes down, but it keeps your empire growing (make sure you're building towards getting that next luxury resource! :mischief:) and building things faster.


Good luck on your game -- and hopefully moving up a level ;)
 
Once you get Markets and about 5 luxuries, you will no longer need temples, if coupled with CxxC spacing and crafty trading/warmongering. In the meantime, I would build the markets instead, and use the lux slider to keep cities happy instead of allowing them to riot, and utilize the markets if I have no libraries to buy techs instead if research them. I would still keep the slider at about 30% to get techs the AI doesn't want, to gain the edge trading for both luxury's and techs/gold.
 
If you plan to go with Democracy eventually, temples are worth having. I find that in Democracy, often money is object, but every single happy face I can squeeze out to guard against war-weariness is priceless.

A Democracy's war-weariness isn't a problem that is really faced until some time in the Industrial age, when cities are expanding beyond 12 population. So if you don't need the culture, you can save them to being the last buildings built, or if you have tightly-packed cities that don't support a lot of workers, then maybe you don't need them at all.

I partially disagree with this. Regarding Republic/Democracy, it could see possibly placing temples in select locations. But even on Monarch difficulty a limited number of luxuries doesn't usually convince me to build temples. But if war weariness runs rampant, it usually causes a handful of clowns in a few large cities. The question is if the loss of productivity for these clowns outweighs building a temple that you will pay 1gpt until the end of the game - or until you decide to sell it for a loss. And unless I am going for a cultural VC, I generally don't touch cathedrals or colluseums. I'd rather build another unit to take the luxuries I'm missing.

I am currently playing a Monarch game, tundra world (random pick), Rome (random pick), contients, 7 enemies (random picks - France, India, Vikings, Aztecs, Celts, Persia, Iroquis), standard. I got shafted with a huge tundra start, though only a few Civs have good areas - France but with a good amount of jungle to clear and the Celts started on their own, rather large island. :(

I have two local luxuries. I am trading luxuries with France and India to keep my warmongering Republic happy (with the help of marketplaces). I also snatched up Bach's - that is a geat Wonder (IMO) for a republic/democracy. Bach's is worth at least 10% on the luxury rate, maybe 20%. Zero temples, etc. I ran a 20-40% luxury rate during the hardest part, now I am at 0% luxury rate, 80-100% research, still pulling in 200+ gpt because the AI is almost exclusively buying their techs from me at nice gpt deals and many are polite or even gracious at the moment.

The other option, Monarchy, I don't build temples because war weariness really doesn't matter much and you can use MPs to control some degree of unhappiness (and MPs are generally cheaper to make and can be used for attack/defense). Plus, if you go Monarchy, snatch up the HG and then Bach's and you can cruise through the MA without much worry. Just make sure to have your wonder prebuilds ready to snatch them up. HG is less useful because it is really only good for the MA - if you grab steam right away, you lose it. But if you can use the HG to get ahead in techs in the MA and get to Bach's first, you are usuallly good. And HG is a pretty easy wonder to nab at lower levels if you don't plan to grab the GL.
 
War Weariness doesn't exist in Monarchy.
 
War Weariness doesn't exist in Monarchy.

Sorry, I was vague in my response.

This is ture, but MPs can help to 'cheer up' citizens in newly occupied cities - those people that are shouting "stop the agression against my homeland". I know that is not exactly war weariness as it equates to your home populatoin, but those same citizens will cry every time you declare war against their homeland. MPs can help make them behave (to a degree)

In a republic/democracy, you pretty much need to increase the overall luxury rate for a few bad apples. I have several newly occupied cities that are paralyzed at the moment because of this. This is particulary troublesome when you are invading other continents/islands and you don't have a harbor to connect back to your homeland right away.
 
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