China-France-Taiwan

stratego

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From what I understand, France is only showing support to China in the Taiwan issue because of political and maybe economic reasons, right? Ideologically they support the Democratic country of Taiwan and would never provide military assistance to China nor would they train China's navy right?
 
Wrong Stratego!!! Look what I found

China and France to conduct joint naval drills
By Richard McGregor in Shanghai

The navies of China and France begin joint naval exercises on Tuesday off the northern Chinese coast in what Beijing says will be the "most comprehensive" military drills with a foreign power by a fleet under the command of the People's Liberation Army.

Although they are being conducted some distance from Taiwan, the exercises will take place just days before sensitive presidential elections on the island, over which China claims sovereignty.

France angered Taiwan recently by strongly condemning President Chen Shui-bian's plan to hold a referendum on missile defence alongside Saturday's election, prompting Taipei to suspend top-level ties with Paris.

France is also lobbying EU countries to drop the 15-year-old embargo on arms sales to China, imposed after the brutal 1989 suppression of pro-democracy demonstrators in Beijing and other mainland cities.

The exercises involve staging search and rescue missions, refuelling exercises and tactical helicopter exchanges - a level above recent Chinese contacts with other visiting western navies, which have been restricted to routine drills and communication exchanges.

Ju Xinchun, the captain of the Harbin, a guided-missile destroyer, said at the base of the North China Fleet of the PLA Navy headquartered in Qingdao, that the Chinese had much to learn from the history and combat effectiveness of the French.

"The French navy is experienced, and we are eager to learn from them about their experience in coordination skills in joint exercises," said Mr Ju.

Zhang Chu, an editor at International Outlook, a Shanghai-based magazine, said France had maintained strong ties through much of the 1990s with China's defence establishment, despite the arms embargo.

"China wants to co-operate with traditional European powers, and France, as a stringent critic of the US, and a fervent advocate of lifting the arms embargo, was the country likely to take the initiative," Mr Zhang said.

Andrew Yang, a defence analyst based in Taipei, played down the significance of the exercise's proximity to the Taiwan elections, saying the drills were similar to those conducted recently by the PLA Navy with the fleets of India and Pakistan.

"It does not have direct implications for the situation in Taiwan," said Mr Yang, who said it was more a reflection of China's determination to forge ties with foreign fleets.

Christine Allain, second in command of a French light frigate participating in the exercises, was quoted in China's press as saying that she was impressed by the skills of the Chinese naval officers and their "good command of English".

The five-day tour is the 12th by French warships to China.
 
doesnt look like it. Now if red china were english i'm sure they'd be on taiwan's side.
 
Well last time France had sold frigates to Taiwan, a huge story about corruption has exploded in France. So I guess neither taiwanese nor french want to make any military deals together since then.
 
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Does this strike anyone else as amusing?
No no. You're the only one who's a total ignorant about World History in here.
 
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Does this strike anyone else as amusing?

If you are referring to France's suckiness in War, let me remind you that they are not that bad.
 
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Does this strike anyone else as amusing?

Their navy has always been one of the better ones especially when compared to China's and they have a lot of experience with amphibious oprations......hmmmmm. This trend of selling out Taiwan is sad. I hope our next president doesn't do the same.
 
Originally posted by Marla_Singer
Well last time France had sold frigates to Taiwan, a huge story about corruption has exploded in France. So I guess neither taiwanese nor french want to make any military deals together since then.
It too exploded in Taiwan like the dead whale did a while ago, and yeah, that was some real gross. :(

AFAIK, this case is still under investigation, and I doubt it's going anywhere. However, nobody says no to business whenever there is a possibility. ;) Since China is currently flirting with France, France probably won't resume any kind of talk with Taiwan anytime soon. China always makes sure to elbow Taiwan away from whoever they're talking with.
 
Originally posted by Marla_Singer
No no. You're the only one who's a total ignorant about World History in here.

Very true, aside from WWII France never seriously has gotten their @$$ kicked. Lost alot of wars yes, but not badly.
 
So what do you think now about France fighting on China's side should there be a WWIII in ten years?
 
lol. It's just a tour with 4 crappy ships. France aren't going to train Chinese navy or fight on China's side.
 
Originally posted by Sarevok


Very true, aside from WWII France never seriously has gotten their @$$ kicked. Lost alot of wars yes, but not badly.

Not true. Think of a war between Britain and France - think of an occupied Paris - think of their greatest war leader imprisoned. They have had their ass kicked before.
But I agree they are much better soldiers and sailors than the world gives them credit for. Its just a pity that they believe the crap that is spouted about their military resolve and believe themselves incapable of influencing or intervening militarily to protect the free world.
 
Surprising.

I'm not really happy to see our army in such friendship with a dictatorship like China.
Especially considering how our politics always enact their speech about human rights when a Chinese official visit us. Seems like empty words...
 
Taiwan has something to worry about if Chinese get access top of the line EU equipment. Could nullify their technology edge.:scan:
 
The shared exercise are not very important; it's just a few search-and-rescue exercise. And I still have no doubts that if China declares war on Taiwan and a Western coalition declare war on China's side France will be part of it. However, I very strongly disapprove of the sell of weapons to China, and to any dictatorship for that matter.

Stratego, being American I am not sure you really want to open the "Nation X sells weapons to Dictature Y!" can of worms though.
 
France is also lobbying EU countries to drop the 15-year-old embargo on arms sales to China, imposed after the brutal 1989 suppression of pro-democracy demonstrators in Beijing and other mainland cities.

I hope the U.K. hasn't been part of this embargo. I didn't notice this when I first read it. It makes me sick to think Britain has lost 15 years of arms sales because of the deaths of some daft students who knew **** about democracy or how to work towards it. Sure America gets to sell its stuff to Tiawan but the U.K. and Europe gets nothing of that market and we are expected to continue this embargo....screw that. The french aren't often right but today they are right.

:(
 
Originally posted by Sarevok


Very true, aside from WWII France never seriously has gotten their @$$ kicked. Lost alot of wars yes, but not badly.
That must be discounting...

1. Franco-Prussian war 1920s
2. Naval campaigns (sp. Nelson)
3. Napoleonic Wars (sp. Wellington)
4. Hundreds Years Wars (sp. Henry V)

Did I miss any?

Nah, they aren't as bad as they are made out to be. The French Foreign Legion is hard as nails and they are in NATO too; and in special collaboration with the UK - so they have UK & NATO security details to share with China which I'm sure the Chinese are very interested in.

France does not have a great record but they do have a fairly large navy at the moment. Infact, they always have a fairly large military... :hmm:

Wouldn't it be nice if China-France were collaborating on space exploration instead of military maneuvres? I have an idea: Lets conquer Mars! Surely that would keep everyone happy? :p

Wasn't France also trying to sell the Rafale (spelling ?) to N.Korea -- the French are either extremely naive or plotting a great evil. I would say naive but that doesn't mean I don't oppose them.
 
Originally posted by stormbind
That must be discounting...

1. Franco-Prussian war 1920s
2. Naval campaigns (sp. Nelson)
3. Napoleonic Wars (sp. Wellington)
4. Hundreds Years Wars (sp. Henry V)

1. I guess you meant 1870. This one is fair enough, though while the armies of Napoleon the Small (Victor Hugo's nickname for Napoleon III) collasped quickly, as far as courage is concerned the resistance of Paris was truly amazing: it lasted a good six months, in one of the worst winter ever, with no regular troops, against the whole Prussian army and was eventually beaten by treason.

2. Considering the UK was concentrating its forces at sea while France was busy conquering Europe, the outcome was not surpising :p

3. :eek: Sure, France ended up loosing, but how can you consider as a proof of military weaknest a serie of campaigns where France *alone* managed to conquer every important capitals in Europe except London? Had there not been a channel between France and the UK, Napoleon would have won :p
At some battles, France fought the *combined* armies of the three other great land powers of the time (Austria,Prussia and Russia) and won....
No one else in the history of Europe came as close to conquering the contienent as France did.

4. True, you won a serie of battles, but France still won the war. The British kings never got their hands on the crown of France. What is more, the "British Kings" in questions were direct decendents of William the Conqueror, the Duke of Normandy (not France, just a little part of it) who conquered England. The one hundred years war was thus more a war between two French dynasties than one between France and England :p Having strong norman origins, and from Falaise (birthplace of William the Conqueror) at that, I have stronger ties to the Norman/English dynasty in question that you :p
In fact, I wish the Duke of Normandy/King of England had won; considering the relative importance of the kingdoms at the time, a "flip" similar to that following the Normand conquest of England would most likely have happened: for a generation or two the King of England would have ruled France, and after that England would have becomed a colony of the much larger French kingdom ;)
 
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