China willing to go to war to stop democracy!

[Sims2789]

i've figured out a way to stop China, it's so smiple, even Bush could have thought of it. okay, maybe no that simple, but here it go's:

the United States pulls 10,000 troops from Korea to Taiwan. although they will be overun if China does attack Tiawan, China will realize that they will be in a war with the United States if they attack Taiwan, and that will be to high of a cost. we could also move some nuclear missles into Taiwan. we could use the same strategy North Korea is using against us. that is, Taiwan is never going to use the nukes offensively, but instead uses them to blackmail China so that they don't invade.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

America has a one-China policy, and thus putting troops in Taiwan would be the same as putting 10 000 American soldiers in China, to the Chinese. The Americans would rather not upset the boat of economic advancement right now, so your proposal is impossible.

 

[Xen]

although i dont have a firm grasp pf all the subtilties of the situation politiaclly, it seems to me that mainland china is in no position to dicate what taiwan can, and cannot do- obstructing trade with the US will only damage it, and not the US, as there other nations that have the cability for the production that we get from china (well, no siungle country, but several should do the trick) and mor ethen likell need it more the china dose development wise

 

[FredLC]

Originally posted by luiz
-We have 2 carriers, but only one them is currently used

I recently saw in National geographic that the São Paulo Carrier is operational now. I am just not sure if the Minas Gerais is retired. Can you enlighten me on the matter?

Regards .

 

[Sims2789]

what if we do away with the one-china policy.

 

[CornMaster]

Taiwan is a province of China.

In Western countries where democracy is the rule of the day....we solve these problems with referendums. However....when democracy is surpressed, people are much more willing to resort to violence. Since Taiwan is China's territory.....it's none of our business. Let them handle it.

We did send the tanks into Quebec in the past....so Canadians should try not to become too big of hypocrits.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by sims2789
what if we do away with the one-china policy.

Is a precedent no country wants to be the first to set, especially with the prospect of big time economic recovery in question.

 

[Intruder13]

I think we should do away with the one-china policy because of Chinese aggressions against our freedom loving friends. I think we are morally obligated to defend Taiwan because we pride ourselves on being free, so how could we live with ourselves if Red China invaded without opposition? I wouldn’t rule out a Chinese invasion because conflict is the lifeblood of any communist\fascist government, and the conquered territory makes them even more powerful. Should China grow this powerful they will almost certainly bury their neighbors and the rest if the world.

I think the USA should encourage Taiwan to declare independence. I am very much in favor of the “big stick policy.” We should hope for the best and plan for the worst…

 

[Norlamand]

Personally I think open conflict over Taiwan is a fairly remote possibility. China must realize that they would quickly unite the majority of the world (save France and a few others) against them. Even if they believed that there would be no military response, there can be little doubt about the economic sanctions that they would suffer under. I would chalk most of this up to saber rattling bluster designed to frighten the Taiwanese into not holding the referendum. Of course I could be wrong.....

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by nihilistic
Absolutely not. There is no urgency for them. Assuming that their goals are to remain in power, prestige, and maintain a good econ, there is no better way of reunification than just letting the current economic trends continue. If they were counting on whether US forces are free or not as a reason to invade, they would have already lost the most important part of their struggle: reunification without a fight. 10 or 20 years down the road, Taiwan would be way too dependant on the mainland to attempt anything funny. It's the Taiwanese seperatists who are desperate at this point.

Yes, I also think the Taiwanese separatists are already desperate at this point - which is why they kept raising the issue these past few years, to get it thru while it's still relevant in the Taiwanese public's mind.

Taiwanese personnel, capital, and knowhow are a major portion of the Overseas Chinese contribution that's presently helping to drive the Chinese economy - and the Taiwanese govt could do little to stem the tide of investing on the Mainland (mainly done thru Hong Kong), considering how attractive and cost-effective it is. There're hundreds of thousands of Taiwanese nationals permanently residing on the mainland now, working or studying.

The Chinese side is content to let things remain in the ambigious way they're. It's the Taiwanese DPP who're rocking the boat.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by onejayhawk
Invade is the definitive wordd here. One of the big factors in the equation is the fact that the Chinese do not have the capability to cross the straights in force. Taiwan's Air Force is amoung the best in the world, and quite cabable of sinking large numbers of transports. which the Chinese do not have to begin with.

The Chinese might not be able to cross the straits now - but how about 20 years fr now? 50? 100? 200?

Even if there's a new democratic China on the scene, I would think the Chinese would still want to 'recover' Taiwan. It has something to do with the Chinese need to reaffirm their place in the world - that China is well and truly recovered fr the trials of the past 2 centuries, and esp that the Chinese can do damn well pleased in what they see as their millenia-old sphere of influence w/o Western intervention.

This is, of course, why the situation exists as it does. I am mistified why XIII states flatly that western intervention is what caused teh rift in the first place. That sounds like a party line slogan, rather than a reasoned opinion. Mao could not take the island, and 50 years has not changed that basic fact.

A lot of Chinese see the West and Japan as the main culprits in the humbling of the old Chinese order - specifically the old Qing Empire. Anti-Western and anti-Japanese feelings had been around in China for a long time, fr way before the Communists came to power. I'm referring to the stretch fr the Opium War of 1842 to 1949 when the PRC was founded and the Western powers kicked out of China for good - when the West pretty much dictated everything in China.

British warships cruised the Yangzi at will, and fired on any who refused to submit to the British. Germans called the shots in Shandong. Guangxi groaned under French influence. All of Manchuria and a great part of China under Japanese occupation at one time. Yes, the Chinese had a lot of past issues to pick.

'Recovering' Taiwan is seen as one step in putting things right again for the Chinese, and the final step; much like Hong Kong was in 1997.

And I think the Communists are now employing such feelings in the people, as one of the props to maintain themselves in power. Since the Communists in China hardly do Communism anymore.

And I think they're playing with fire. They may find once they've let out the genie out of the bag, it'll be hard to clamp down on the nationalist/patriotic fervour - they may have to really fight out the war they always said they would.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by Norlamand
Personally I think open conflict over Taiwan is a fairly remote possibility. China must realize that they would quickly unite the majority of the world (save France and a few others) against them. Even if they believed that there would be no military response, there can be little doubt about the economic sanctions that they would suffer under. I would chalk most of this up to saber rattling bluster designed to frighten the Taiwanese into not holding the referendum. Of course I could be wrong.....

Even though the French may have offended many peoples sensibilities by telling the Americans that invading Iraq would be a bad move for the Americans, I do not think the French are so cynical as you say to side with the Chinese. I do not think any western country would be stupid enough to do that.

 

[Norlamand]

Originally posted by Sobieski II


Even though the French may have offended many peoples sensibilities by telling the Americans that invading Iraq would be a bad move for the Americans, I do not think the French are so cynical as you say to side with the Chinese. I do not think any western country would be stupid enough to do that.

I was half-joking. If China was the aggressor I suspect the French would take a strong stance against it. They would probably even get in the fight if there was one. I don't hate the French, but they do annoy the piss out of me from time to time.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by Norlamand


I was half-joking. If China was the aggressor I suspect the French would take a strong stance against it. They would probably even get in the fight if there was one. I don't hate the French, but they do annoy the piss out of me from time to time.

Every nation has a purpose on this planet. The Americans have to innovate, the British have to be calm and collect, the Germans and Japanese have to build, while the Russians have balls. The French...well the French have to annoy the hell out of you from time to time.

 

[Intruder13]

The Chinese are no much more democratic than the DPRK, sure they have some elements of capitalism, but it’s still the same "I'll whip your butt" mentality. Now I do feel for china since it has been "dictated to" by western civilization, but I will oppose communism. I will especially oppose them for invading Taiwan, and I think its worth fighting over. If China could "absorb" Taiwan without conflict then more power too them but they can’t because their method of diplomacy is at the business end of a Kalashnikov.

For the record, I don’t support the war against Iraq that has no significant WMD. I do support a war against a country that uses the army on its own population in addition to massing the largest army in the world and using it to blackmail democratic nations. It would be in China’s best interest to forgo any wars and continue building on their economy, but that’s just my opinion….

 

[Enemy Ace]

Originally posted by sims2789
we could also move some nuclear missles into Taiwan. .

No way. The Chinese would view this action the same way we viewed the Soviet Union putting nukes in Cuba, except they WOULD mount an air strike on Taiwan.

blah blah one-china policy.

Sure, but the thing is, the U.S. Gov't views the Gov't in Taiwan to be the one-china.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by Enemy Ace
No way. The Chinese would view this action the same way we viewed the Soviet Union putting nukes in Cuba, except they WOULD mount an air strike on Taiwan.

There were such weapons, conventional and special, on Taiwan up until 1974. There were no attempted Chinese airstrikes in this time. The correlation of global forces is more akin now to the early 1950s than to the more equal periods of the Cold War. As such, given unchallenged hegemony, the correct policy to pursue is one of massive retaliation, and current movements are towards a version of this.

 

[Enemy Ace]

I did not know this, Simon. Interesting.

Matters not, we have plenty of nukes from various sources to take care of China.

 

[amadeus]

Actually, the U.S. government only recognizes the Communist government, not the Nationalist. We have no embassy in Taipei.

On the thought of invasion, Taiwan would easily repel them if China uses only conventional munitions. The people in Taiwan would never stand for Communist occupation.

 

[Zarn]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Actually, the U.S. government only recognizes the Communist government, not the Nationalist. We have no embassy in Taipei.

On the thought of invasion, Taiwan would easily repel them if China uses only conventional munitions. The people in Taiwan would never stand for Communist occupation.

That and China isn't going to have any industrialized, free government friends at all.

We should have a Taiwanese embassy, but we are too interested with trading with China and trying to be buddies with them, although it would end with an invasion of Taiwan. The US wouldn't stand by.