China's Social Credit System

[Cheetah]

Well, yes, and that's the problem. No?

Or not? Maybe I'm stupid and this whole idea with representative democracy is a historical blip. Maybe authoritarianism of one form or another is the only long-term stable way to rule humans?

After all, Lee Hsien Loong was Senior Wrangler at Cambridge, and even knows how to program, so he's probably way better a ruler than any elected politician from the more free democracies...

I'm not philosophically opposed to an enlightened sovereign, I'm just doubtful that successive enlightened ones can be found.

 

[Kozmos]

Well, yes, and that's the problem. No?

Or not? Maybe I'm stupid and this whole idea with representative democracy is a historical blip. Maybe authoritarianism of one form or another is the only long-term stable way to rule humans?

After all, Lee Hsien Loong was Senior Wrangler at Cambridge, and even knows how to program, so he's probably way better a ruler than any elected politician from the more free democracies...

I'm not philosophically opposed to an enlightened sovereign, I'm just doubtful that successive enlightened ones can be found.

We could always build a Machine.

Democracy isn't necessarily a bad idea, but you have to have a well educated populace, voting licenses or/and some kind of weighting for the votes, so people who make good choices for the nation have greater sway. You'd probably need another Machine to make it work though.

 

[aelf]

We could always build a Machine.

Ah-ha!

 

[Hygro]

Seems super gameable.

 

[Kozmos]

Ah-ha!

30-40 years away? Or maybe 20?

Spoiler :

 

[sophie]

@OP Didn't you use to live in a country where strict codes for behaviour are unofficially in place? I live in one. I don't imagine it would feel all that much different. And, to be fair, the people of the PRC can be a very badly-behaved lot.



What colour?

It's held at a steady light blue, but I'm concerned about it going cloudy. Know anyone I can talk to about that?

 

[aelf]

30-40 years away? Or maybe 20?

I guess that depends on whether the machine is only a governing aid or a truly a World Controller. A governing aid might be actually be worse.

I might post something on the forum. It's rather long, though.

It's held at a steady light blue, but I'm concerned about it going cloudy. Know anyone I can talk to about that?

I've been hearing a name... Kamui.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Well, there is this idea that the success of democracy rests on there being a well informed and responsible electorate. Perhaps some sort of rating system intended to ensure that such an electorate exists would not be a terrible thing.

The problem is when people in power tune the "rating" such that they continue to stay in power regardless of merit.

You're rated in politics and I'm in power. Let's say you disagree with me. Well, obviously you're wrong (and by profiling tons of people who are also "obviously wrong", I can see that lots of people with your preferences prefer other things, so those are now defined as bad behaviors too).

Want me out of power? Too bad, you're not eligible because you have a low score.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The problem is when people in power tune the "rating" such that they continue to stay in power regardless of merit.

You're rated in politics and I'm in power. Let's say you disagree with me. Well, obviously you're wrong (and by profiling tons of people who are also "obviously wrong", I can see that lots of people with your preferences prefer other things, so those are now defined as bad behaviors too).

Want me out of power? Too bad, you're not eligible because you have a low score.

Clearly that is a problem. And I have no prospective solution. I think there may be one though, so I would put this in the hopper of things that are not abjectly wrong headed in themselves, but would require extreme care in the implementation.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Clearly that is a problem. And I have no prospective solution. I think there may be one though, so I would put this in the hopper of things that are not abjectly wrong headed in themselves, but would require extreme care in the implementation.

Indeed, an objective basis for evaluating competency amongst those making decisions about the future of their peers is at least in theory a desirable thing.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Indeed, an objective basis for evaluating competency amongst those making decisions about the future of their peers is at least in theory a desirable thing.

Heck, I'd be overjoyed with competency, but satisfied with just taking an actual interest. The number of people who vote without even bothering to know anything about the candidates beyond their names, if that, is horrifying.

 

[Oerdin]

This so wide open to political abuse it is scary.

 

[Akka]

I've thought (and said) for a long time that, in my opinion, the highest societal danger in the XXIst century will be how data processing and numeric rights are managed.
The numeric revolution is offering for the first time in history a true ability to control everyone, and the roaring freedom of the early Internet has been replaced by corporate and state interests.

This step in China is truly terrifying, and I hope it serves as a warning to all about the value of privacy, but I'm very afraid people just don't care enough.
But dystopia can actually be coming, and not just in your SF show this time.

 

[Joecoolyo]

We have arrived gentlemen.

What's this from?

 

[sophie]

What's this from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho-Pass

Basically in the distant future Japanese society has developed an algorithm that is able to continuously monitor and evaluate its citizens' mental state and overall likelihood to commit a crime. Once someone surpasses the government's (more or less) arbitrary threshold the law enforcement agency is allowed to detain or execute the individual (who hasn't necessarily committed any crimes yet, but is deemed very likely to do so). The agents use "dominators" which are special guns issued by the government which are linked to the system and are able to "scan" a citizens' Psycho-Pass (their crime coefficient) and the gun unlocks (whether to stun or kill) depending on the scanned citizens number. The result is a somewhat utopic society in which everybody trusts everybody else intrinsically (to the point where locks don't exist in this universe) but the undercurrent is one of a deeply disturbing society where people trust a computer wholesale to dictate their lives - from what job to take to who to interact with to what food and clothes to wear every day. Diverging from the norm even marginally can ruin your life forever (being a hostage or witness to a crime can alter your Psycho-Pass to the point where you yourself are deemed a criminal. Police officers place full trust in the scanners to the point where officers doing actual investigatory police work are considered a dying breed. No personal discretion is taken). Overall the show is more an investigation into the purpose of life. Art essentially doesn't exist anymore as art - true art - comes from a place of conflict and adversity, and people with such a mental state are arrested, and those who sneak by are censored as it's feared that art of that nature might be harmful to other peoples' mental states. People don't make decisions for themselves anymore. Even minutiae like what clothes to wear are decided by computer. If agency is removed entirely from society to the point where, while literally as happy as possible, people effectively are little more than cattle herded by the government, can one truly be said to be living a life?

It's available on Netflix now. Quite good.

 

[Kozmos]

I guess that depends on whether the machine is only a governing aid or a truly a World Controller. A governing aid might be actually be worse.

I might post something on the forum. It's rather long, though.

That's more or less my view. It can either be a great tool for tyranny or the best arbiter for the disparate wants and views for the masses of humanity.

Anyway, computer intelligence is certainly getting better at reading data correctly.

http://www.technologyreview.com/new...ercomputer-beats-google-at-image-recognition/