City crash question

[Hellfiredoom]

Hello all,

I have a quick question regarding my current game. I captured an opponents capital, around level 10-12 at the time, and built a few "happiness" upgrades in it (temple, cathedral). About 20-30 turns later, the city population began declining and it now sits at one. The sole survivor explains his unhappiness as "we cannot forget the cruel oppression you bore down upon us", even though he is one of my nationals. Normally I would abandon and rebuild, but it has 3 Wonders in it.

I did a search of the forums but couldn't find an explanation of what happened. Any ideas what's going on here? (I'm playing Civ Vanilla v1.29f / Monarch if that matters).

Thanks!
HFD

 

[Aabraxan]

First off, welcome to CFC, Hellfiredoom!

Now, as for your game. If the population began declining, it's because there isn't enough food to support it. Every citizen eats 2 food per turn, and produces an amount determined by the tile that that particular citizen works. Zoom to the city, and look in the lower right corner of the screen. You'll find the food bin there. If it says "shortage" above it, that's your answer.

As for the unhappiness, well, somebody whipped them. Did you whip them? If not, some of it may be carried over from the previous owner of the city. I think there are certain circumstances under which "whip unhappiness," which is what you've got, may be transferred from a nearby city. I'm not sure about that transfer stuff, though, so someone may come along and correct me on that.

 

[Hellfiredoom]

Thanks for the welcome and the quick response

I did a quick search on "whip unhappiness" and found this thread in the Civ4 forums. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=193659.
I assume this feature applies to Civ3 as well.

The other civ was drafting heavily (I had him boxed in while I tended to another civ attacking my flank), so I guess I simply need to wait for the unhappiness to run out.

Thanks again and Happy Holidays!

 

[Aabraxan]

I don't play Civ 4, but the definition in the threat you linked (" 'The whip' is a slang term for sacrificing population to complete the production of a unit or building in a city.") is the same for Civ 3. Some governments are "pop rush," meaning you use "the whip" to hurry projects, sacrificing population, while others are "cash rush," meaning you use gold to rush projects.

Yeah, I guess you'll just need to wait for it to run out.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

It's been a while but I seem to remember some cities that I have kept because of their wonders; the war weariness lasted the rest of the game. It doesn't happen often, but if the wonders are worth it then let it be a one scientist/taxman town.

 

[Spoonwood]

Fiddlin_Nero,

Do you mean resistance? Were you still at war with the tribe you captured the city from?

 

[Optional]

Fiddlin_Nero,

Do you mean resistance?

Probably not, as you can't turn a resistor into a specialist. And unhappiness can seemingly go on forever and ever, I've noticed that myself. Although if there's just one citizen and a whole bunch of lux then I don't think you'll have a problem.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

Optional's got it right, definitely not resistance, I may blur war weariness with 'I can't forget the cruel oppression...' that can keep citizens unhappy for a long time.

Spoonwood: I never go to war for more than 10 to 20 so no I wasn't permanently at war and yes the citizen still stayed unhappy, they just couldn't forget that cruelty.

 

[Spoonwood]

About how long was the rest of the game?

 

[Hellfiredoom]

Update: The city finally did right itself. I didn't do an exact count, but it seemed about 20 turns later the sole citizen finally forgave my past discretions and resumed working a tile. By the end of the game (~70 turns after I originally captured the city), the city was back up to 11 citizens.

Alls well that ends well!

 

[TheOverseer714]

If a large amoount of whipping occurs, there can be enough whip unhappiness to last an entire game. I think it is 20 years per citizen whipped.

 

[Hellfiredoom]

If a large amoount of whipping occurs, there can be enough whip unhappiness to last an entire game. I think it is 20 years per citizen whipped.

That's my interpretation of the article I referenced above, more whippings = more unhappiness, and it stacks. Specifically "If you crack the whip again before the previous penalty expires, then the unhappies stack - if you crack the whip twice in a single turn, you'll be facing a +2 penalty. Furthermore, the clock on the second penalty doesn't start until the first penalty has expired. In other words, cracking the whip twice on the same turn gives you a +1 penalty for 10 turns, and another +1 penalty for 20 turns.". That could turn into a nasty penalty, and I could see it lasting the remainder of the game (though luckily not in my case).

Live and learn, next time I won't blockade a city for too long (I planted troups around the AIs final city to starve down his population while I took care of England who was knocking on my back door). The AI would attack every few turns trying to break out, and with no shields for production I'm guessing he was crackin' da whip to get troups.

 

[Optional]

Live and learn, next time I won't blockade a city for too long (I planted troups around the AIs final city to starve down his population while I took care of England who was knocking on my back door). The AI would attack every few turns trying to break out, and with no shields for production I'm guessing he was crackin' da whip to get troups.

Often you can make a good guess about it. Still in Despotism and cornered in, the AI will usually whip. Watch the population in towns; if it goes down, the whip is being used (Yeah, I know; if you've been blocking tiles to starve a city down then this would obscure things). If a town is making a wonder, then it can of course not whip units, and also governments like Monarchy, Republic and Democracy don't allow whipping.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

About how long was the rest of the game?

Couldn't say for sure, I like stretching my games out and can easily go to year 2100. Definite memories of checking until I finished the game. It would give pretty good odds that it was more than 20 turns and I didn't whip any citizens.