City Limitations via Civics

[strategyonly]

While I am enjoying city limits early in the game I do think they are a bit artificial. Especially at Monarchy and later. My vote would be for Anarchism (3) - Chiefdom (7) - Despotism (12) Monarchy (unlimited) - Republic (unlimited).

So it is said, and so it is done, thx.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Thank you DH and THANK YOU SO!!!

JosEPh

 

[Hydromancerx]

While I am enjoying city limits early in the game I do think they are a bit artificial. Especially at Monarchy and later. My vote would be for Anarchism (3) - Chiefdom (7) - Despotism (12) Monarchy (unlimited) - Republic (unlimited).

Could Chiefdom be changed to 6 then if we are doing it this way?

This way it doubles each civic until you get past monarchy.

3x2 = 6
6x2 = 12

 

[BlueGenie]

It's a pretty math thing already:
3+4+5

 

[Hydromancerx]

It's a pretty math thing already:
3+4+5

True however in my testing i think chiefdom still give way too many cities. Lowering it by one might help i think.

 

[strategyonly]

Would anyone object if i just TOOK OUT city limitations?

 

[EldrinFal]

Would anyone object if i just TOOK OUT city limitations?

What about trying the happiness/anger suggestion by Nevets? Seems to be getting support.

 

[Koshling]

Would anyone object if i just TOOK OUT city limitations?

I would. I far prefer Nevits suggestion.

 

[strategyonly]

What about trying the happiness/anger suggestion by Nevets? Seems to be getting support.

I would. I far prefer Nevits suggestion.

OK then, forget i asked.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Would anyone object if i just TOOK OUT city limitations?

I would like some limitation for the first couple civics. However in the other topic some of their ideas look promising on how to apply some limits.

 

[JosEPh_II]

What about trying the happiness/anger suggestion by Nevets? Seems to be getting support.

I don't support it. And would only even consider it if War Weariness was addressed 1st. WW is ruining overseas Warfare in the Mid game. And as I have yet to get into Modern I don't know how bad it is in that Era. But if it follows suit with Ren and Industrial Eras, then the long range war is broken by WW and the Uncontrolable unhappy faces it generates.

@SO, No I wouldn't mind one bit if you removed them. As I said in the beginning they are artificial and Hamper the AI.

Ex. It's 1000AD in my current v16 game and Portugal, Carthage and China Still only have 3 cities! It's Borked! Flawed! (Warning! Sarcasm statement coming up!)But because Afforess invented it, it just Must be the next coming! As Good a modder as Afforess is, even he can have and implement a Bad idea.( I respect Afforess Very Much, but even he has made mistakes too,)

Nevets idea is flawed one too. May be well intentioned, but it's still flawed, same as City Limits thru Civics.

JosEPh

 

[ThoricFrame]

Haven't had AI problems with city limits before but in my current v16ish (not exactly sure which revision, got it from svn after 16 was released), England are still running anarchism despite being able to use monarchy or republic. Maybe something is borked with the weighting of anarchism? They don't want to switch away from it even though it is a terrible terrible civic, and would still be terrible if it didn't have the 3 city limitation.

 

[strategyonly]

OK am tenting it out again, withOUT city limits.

 

[Koshling]

Haven't had AI problems with city limits before but in my current v16ish (not exactly sure which revision, got it from svn after 16 was released), England are still running anarchism despite being able to use monarchy or republic. Maybe something is borked with the weighting of anarchism? They don't want to switch away from it even though it is a terrible terrible civic, and would still be terrible if it didn't have the 3 city limitation.

If you see things like this that appear obviously bizaar post the save game and I'll run through the civic choice in the debugger for that state and diagnose why (and potentially address it)

 

[ThoricFrame]

If you see things like this that appear obviously bizaar post the save game and I'll run through the civic choice in the debugger for that state and diagnose why (and potentially address it)

Here is a game, England are being dumb.

 

[Koshling]

Here is a game, England are being dumb.

Thanks, that pinned it down. The problem is in tehXML. When Hydro added CIVIC_ANARCHISM (SVN rev 322, Aug 15th, so V16), he gave it:

			<iAnarchyLength>-100</iAnarchyLength>

This specifices the (unadjusted) number of turns of anarchy to make a switch - it doesn't make much sense to have a negative anarchy length, but the AI uses this value as part of its evaluation (higher values devalue the civic) and so subtracts a large negative value, and inflates the perceived value of Anarchism (a LOT). Hence it never switches to anything else.

I'll push a fix to SVN shortly. If you don't use SVN edit your own copy - it's in the file Assets/xml/GameInfo/Civ4CivisInfos.xml for CIVIC_ANARCHISM. Change it to 0.

Note that the fix won't cause an immediate switch as the AI only considers civic switches every 25 or so turns (or on special events like getting a new civic tech), but it should cause them to switch out next time they consider it.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@Koshling,

Why does Republic, Democracy, and Fascism have a value of 2 will all the rest have a 0 or 1?

And what significance does a 2 have over a 0?

JosEPh

 

[Koshling]

@Koshling,

Why does Republic, Democracy, and Fascism have a value of 2 will all the rest have a 0 or 1?

And what significance does a 2 have over a 0?

JosEPh

Just an extra turn in the revolution to/from it (pre-normalization for game speed).

 

[JosEPh_II]

Thanks for the info. But maybe Representative Democracy and Federal should have a "2" also?

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Just an extra turn in the revolution to/from it (pre-normalization for game speed).

Also so the spiritual trait has something to work with since it has shorter anarchy for civic/religion changes. Although 1 is the minimum.