City names.

[Locutus]

interesting thread! i'm weird in that i have no knowledge of history whatsoever (you'd be flabbergasted how many of the BtS leaders i'd never heard of before BtS was announced), but love civ anyway. this stuff tho is way cool, since it's not just memorizing dates like my boring teachers in school who ruined history for me made us do. Locutus, thanks for sharing your insight into why you picked what you picked, it was nifty to read!

on a silly note: i showed this thread to a dutch friend who tried civ4 but doesn't have time to play it, poor guy. he read the list of cities for the netherlands with your notes and got a kick out of it. he said it was obvious you were from there, and that you like your job . he almost completely approved ... but he's biased and thinks Almelo should be on there too, since he lives there.

Glad you like my work Tell your friend that as a fellow Tukker I can't agree with him on Almelo Even though Almelo has (sort of) had city rights since the 14th century, it didn't become any kind of important town until the industrial age, much like Hengelo (my home town) and Enschede -- although admittedly among those three Almelo *was* the most important one until the 19th century. If I'd had room for more cities from Twente on my city list my choice would be between Goor (historic capital), Oldenzaal (historically largest city, religious centre + Hanze city) and Ootmarsum (historically 2nd city, trade centre), not Almelo or (unfortunately) Hengelo

Really...I was looking at my world map, and Santarém is listed prominently in Brazil (more towards the Amazon jungle, centralized). I couldn't find it in Portugal, although, to be fair, there are only 4 cities listed: Lisbon, Oporto, Setúbal and Vigo. However, if anything, we are in agreement that the Portuguese list contains several colonial names (including Macau).

If your map lists Vigo as a Portuguese town I wouldn't assign too much value to it, since that's a city in Galicia, the area of Spain just north of Portugal Either way, especially on a global scale the Portuguese Santarém isn't really a major city anymore today (although on a national level it still has some significance), but it *was* hugely important in the past. It effectively served as second capital of Portugal for a long time (being the home of many parliament meetings and a major royal palace) and it's littered with churches and monasteries, many of which are gorgeous and unique in design, causing the city to sometimes be known as the 'architectural capital' of Portugal today.

The Brazilian Santarém is one of only four or five major inland cities north of Brasilia, so on a world map there's much more space to list it than there is for any city in Portugal, especially in the area around Lisbon. Its inclusion on a world map is not necessarily a sign of importance, although it's definitely true that today Brazil's Santarém is much larger and arguably more important than the Portuguese town. Although I didn't originally intend it as such, you can definitely consider the Santarém on my city list to refer to both cities if you want.

Germany ought to have had Koningsberg in it. It was a very strategically important place with a lot of history to it; the only argument against it is that it's not within German borders today - which is odd as there are plenty of other civs who have cities no longer within their borders.

I agree with you there. I only worked on the HRE city list, not the German one (except for removing some cities from the German list that I assigned to the HRE). If I had, I would've added at least Königsberg to it and possibly some other now-Polish/Czech/Baltic/whatever cities (like aforementioned Riga). However, if I'm not very much mistaken the current German city list is the only other one besides mine that was created by a fan and this guy is a German (I won't name him as I don't know if he wants to be known) and he really didn't like including what are today non-German cities on the German city list. I personally strongly disagree with that for among other things the reasons you've mentioned, but other than that and the fact that it's a tad long the German city list is IMO the best in the game that wasn't made by me (arrogant as that sounds, and probably is). Because of this and out of respect for this other guy it would be the last list I'd touch if I ever get around to fixing the remaining vanilla Civ4 city lists.

Portalegre is Portuguese too? We got a relatively big city in Brazil named Porto Alegre!

Yes, although in this case I'm not sure if the Brazilian city was specifically named after the Portuguese one or if it's a coincidence that the names are so similar. Either way, in this case one could definitely make a very good case that the Brazilian city is actually considerably more important than the Portuguese one.

 

[KMadCandy]

Glad you like my work Tell your friend that as a fellow Tukker I can't agree with him on Almelo

oops! i kinda sorta already told him that you'd agreed to put it on the next list if he sent me lots of hagelslaag (actually the vlokfeest is my favorite) and speculaas . oh dear! would it be terribly wrong to postpone telling him the truth until the boxes are in the mail?

 

[Locutus]

No, I'd wait for that as well

 

[bode404]

Yes, although in this case I'm not sure if the Brazilian city was specifically named after the Portuguese one or if it's a coincidence that the names are so similar. Either way, in this case one could definitely make a very good case that the Brazilian city is actually considerably more important than the Portuguese one.

It must be the Portuguese one. The Brazilian Porto Alegre was never more important or bigger than Rio de Janeiro, then it couldnt appear first in the list.

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

Regarding some civs' city lists:

America: Still doesn't have Marblehead, which was one of the largest U.S. cities during the 1790s

China: Still lack Hong Kong, a major economic center (and yet there's Macau in their list)

Rome: Still lack Pompeii, which is one of the reasons why we know so much about their civilization.

Portugal: LAGOS is the sixth city? I thought it was the name of Nigeria's former capital and largest city.

 

[Tee Kay]

Regarding some civs' city lists:

America: Still doesn't have Marblehead, which was one of the largest U.S. cities during the 1790s

China: Still lack Hong Kong, a major economic center (and yet there's Macau in their list)

Rome: Still lack Pompeii, which is one of the reasons why we know so much about their civilization.

Portugal: LAGOS is the sixth city? I thought it was the name of Nigeria's former capital and largest city.

Hong Kong is in there IIRC. Pompeii too, but they're both in the bottom of the list.

And there is a big city in Portugal called Lagos.

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

And if Germany represents Prussia, why don't they have Konigsburg and/or a handful of Polish cities (here come TheLastOne36!)?

 

[702]

The following has occured to me.
I like others (it seems) would like a more random city list, e.g. playing as England my cities may be London, Manchester, Exeter, etc... one game, London, Brighton, Oxford, etc... another, etc... (or even with the capital as randomised as well)

Well this appears to be how the Barbarian city list works, you can't predict which city will be next and there is no apparent order to them, so there must be some way of making city names appear randomly. Could someone else not find out how this is done and add it to the other city lists, or at least tell us how to do that?

(I say someone else as being a bit of a computer n00b I can't even access the XML files, I can see folders where they are marked as being, but they always appear empty to me)

 

[Crowqueen]

Germany ought to have had Koningsberg in it. It was a very strategically important place with a lot of history to it; the only argument against it is that it's not within German borders today - which is odd as there are plenty of other civs who have cities no longer within their borders.

And The Mumbles isn't even in England, for the record, nor has it ever been. It's in Wales.

I think that sensitivities might have prevailed in a lot of namings in this game from expansionist European civs like Germany and Russia.

I must admit to following the logic - I'm sure someone from Kiev or Riga would feel upset that their city was in "Russia"; likewise Konigsberg is disputed between Poland, Lithuania, Russia and Germany and for reasons of wanting people in Kaliningrad to play it just as much as someone in Kiev or Riga Locutus obviously took it out.

As for me, I only usually get a fraction of the way down the list with cities of my own and when I conquer others' cities - if I am familiar with the modern country - I rename their cities. I conquered barbarian cities and made them Llanelli and Cardiff (apologies to the Welsh but it kind of simulated Edward I's invasions and it occurred around the same era in game time). I conquered Tokyo and made it Swallowfield after my home village (pop of less than 500). Sweet.

edit - sorry, Loc, thought you did them all. The reasoning does hold up though. Europeans are ultra-sensitive to which city belongs where, and the inclusion of the Holy Roman Empire enables you to be more historically-correct. If I was Scottish I wouldn't want Edinburgh in the England list.

 

[DMOC]

Just wondering, although this is unlikely,what happens when a civ runs out of names for their cities (it is possible on huge maps with 2 civs or if one civ has 50 cities and names them all american, there by using up the american slot of names if the player is lincoln or wash or roosevelt)?

 

[Rocko_el_loco]

I once did it with worldbuilder just to see what happens. After founding Le Bam as the Americans, I started getting random Civ's capitals. For example, the next 5 cities were Delhi, London, Paris, Bibracte, and Ulundi. After that, I started getting random names, like Mediolanum, Toledo, etc.

 

[Churchill's Hat]

I once did it with worldbuilder just to see what happens. After founding Le Bam as the Americans, I started getting random Civ's capitals. For example, the next 5 cities were Delhi, London, Paris, Bibracte, and Ulundi. After that, I started getting random names, like Mediolanum, Toledo, etc.

Actually, it just goes to a random city list and picks the first available name. This means that Rome and Spain were in your game, and had already founded a few cities. However, the Indians, English, French, Celts, and Zulus weren't.

 

[WaRg]

since 1453 the city name is Istanbul,but bizans time it is called constantinopole

Actually, during Ottoman times Istanbul was actually called Konstantiniyye, NOT Istanbul. So the Ottoman capital should actually be named Constantinople.

 

[Churchill's Hat]

since 1453 the city name is Istanbul,but bizans time it is called constantinopole

Please look things up before you correct someone. The OP is right, it wasn't renamed Istanbul until 1930, and in formal Ottoman Turkish it is called Konstantiniyye.

 

[Supr49er]

Welcome to the Forums WaRg.

 

[kristopherb]

this thread has been necromanced . Necromancer be gone

 

[OscarWildebeest]

And I've just read it through, and wanted to add something about Richmond (which is a few miles away from where I live).

Richmond is now a suburb of London (effectively), but in the 15th and 16th centuries it was the seat of an important royal castle, of which only the gatehouse now survives. In terms of status it was right up there with places like Winchester.

Having grown up there, I'd have liked to have seen Bristol higher up the list of English names. Certainly for centuries it was an enormously important trading port and was for a time the second largest city in England, in terms of population.

 

[damnation]

Stockholm* is often called the capital of Scandinavia, and it's not listed in the Viking city-list.
Because the Viking era ended in the 11th century, when the christianization of Scandinavia (the home of the Vikings) got completed.
Stockholm was founded in 1252 by Birger Jarl, well after the Viking era.

* (second most northern city with more than a million citizens, only St. Petersburg is 70 km closer to the north-pole)

who calls stockholm the capital of scandinavia? personaly i call stockholm the capital of swedan, not denmark, norway, finland, and swedan. Is Bejing the capital of the far east? Is rome the capital of western europe? but i do think some names should have been included (stockholm, tronjheim, bergen, gotenburg [but with the two dots over the o] and more citys located in scandanavia before they moved on to the britain and ireland.)

 

[Crime Doesn't Pay]

Did the aztec have that many cities?

 

[DMOC]

They probably did, considering how expansive their empire was, but I'm guessing the weird names that result are from the attempts in translating such a language.