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City states become wary

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Lukasper, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. Lukasper

    Lukasper Chieftain

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    Can someone explain the city states become wary mechanic to me. As far as I can tell when you DOW two (or more) city states (for workers) they become "wary". What does this mean? Is it to do with rate of decay of influence?
     
  2. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Yes, all city states that know about the crime you've committed will decay at double rate, and you will no longer get gold gifts when you meet new ones. Basically, on higher difficulty levels you should NEVER DoW 2 CS.
     
  3. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    As far as I know, you do not necessarily have to DoW CSs to get the penalty... (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
    Just DoWing and warmongering too much in general even late game (not sure if nukes have anything to do with it but it seems if you hit CS units with nukes for example...) seems to do the trick...

    Then there's the final stage where I've never seen myself but only read of is permanent war (in which you are automatically at war with all CS because they all are so afraid of you)
     
  4. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    I don't know what stage you are talking about, KB27787. I think someone could be pulling your leg or the information is obsolete. I've played a game on Immortal where I captured and razed every city and at no time did the CS all go to war with me.

    Let's face it, I'm a DoW-happy fella, and yet, as long as I don't DoW more than one CS, by T150 I have usual led allied all the CS. I'm reminded of the words of Patton, who said "In this country, they love a winner, and will not tolerate a loser." CS LOVE warmongers, really.
     
  5. claudiupb

    claudiupb King

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    What about conquering city states. If for example you DoW their ally in order to not DoW the CS itself. Will you still get the "wary" penalty if you conquer? And if yes, how many do you need to conquer in order to get it? Still 2?
     
  6. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    From:
    http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/City-state_(Civ5)

     
  7. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    @kb27787, I don’t trust that wikia site as being perfectly authoritative. As but one example, down further on that very page, it states as unqualified fact that CS will always raze cities when they can.

    Well, if you were not at war with the CS when you nuked one of their units -- you have now DoW'd them -- and that is prolly your 2nd DoW of the game.

    I have not seen this in a while, but I am still pretty sure this only happens with your 3rd CS DoW.

    No. CS don’t care about how many CS you have conquered (or liberated, for that matter). They only count out-of-the-blue CS DoWs.

    Also, I think CS resting point goes from 0 to -20.
     
  8. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    I tested this by capturing 3 CS, during wars against their allies. The other CS didn't bat an eyelid.
     
  9. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

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    maybe just harass them. plant a GG and take their territory. bully them and others several times. that on top of the normal worker steal from 1 CS might combine for the others to give you the no-gold/-20 infl meetings without requiring two DoWs.

    just a curiosity as I dont warmonger enough to test these ideas.
     
  10. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    I've tested further using I.G.E. and an old save, to add 50 GGs, and then citadel-bomb all non-allied CS until they had one tile left and my allies just kept on drinking their martinis.

    CS love warmongers. That's it.
     
  11. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    Capturing a CS wont make city states that wary. Btw, khan could have had a city state penalty reduction but the mongolia would be too OP.
     
  12. Primacide

    Primacide Settler

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    I just ran a 41 CS sandbox game to test this. From what I can tell, it is always the second unprovoked DoW that does it. Citadel bombs will reduce influence (based on the number of tiles you swiped), but will not lead to war. I also tried repeated bullying, which I never do in a real game (it's never worth the trouble to get twenty units on the CS borders - it's just easier to steal a worker). That gets them kind of mad but no banning together to DoW you. I pushed at the mechanic every way I could think of and its just the direct declarations of war that do it.

    Thanks for the OP. Never had a reason to check this out before. I'm usually so busy trying to keep these guys happy that I never bothered trying to make them mad. :)
     
  13. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Yes, the 2nd DoW on a CS will make the CS wary, but there was a claim made earlier in the thread that eventually all the CS will DoW you because you are a monster. This is false. I tested it in a game where I had roughly half the CS as allies, then went and DoW'd a bunch, citadel bombed a load, and my allies loved it.
     
  14. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    It takes far less than 20 units. I rarely bully, and mostly it has been accidental for me when CS status turns yellow. Still, I have done it enough to get the achievement. Basically, it is just free gold. When I can bully, I don't need more workers. I wish I could figure out the mechanic better, as there is a powerful Autocracy tenant that uses the same mechanics.
     
  15. DocRock

    DocRock Prince

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    I have a question related to this one - will attacking the same CS twice also trigger the other CS? If the answer is "yes", how is it possible to steal more than one worker? After the first, they always park their workers in the capital. At least as soon as I get into range (even if hidden behind a mountain with a Scout two tiles away).
     
  16. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    You must find a spot that is not visible from the city where your unit can hide, yet be within 2 moves of the worker when he comes out. If you steal the 1st worker from the 2nd ring, pillage the improvement, then move 2 squares away and wait.
     
  17. beetle

    beetle Deity

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  18. Nick31

    Nick31 Prince

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    For the OP: The wary penalty is rarely too onerous.

    When I play Diety these days, or even Immortal, I'll often take workers from multiple CS if I'm in the mood. 2 DOW isn't too bad as generally it makes just 2 other CS wary. Which, for the early workers, gold, and unit exp is hardly a problem.

    Furthermore, it's not terribly difficult to remove the wary penalty later in the game by completing quests and then pledging to protect once you're back in the positive.

    Now, choosing to DOW a 3rd or 4th CS can stack the wary penalty and likely piss off other civs, but 2 DOW rarely generates too many wary penalties. The worst I ever got was 4 and 2 is the norm.
     
  19. DocRock

    DocRock Prince

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    Beetle your link is a bit broken, but interesting. :) Ok.. i actually never thought about pillaging with my Scout. Great tip, it would be perfect to grab 2-3 from a CS because 1 is not enough and it takes a lot of valuable turns in the beginning to hard-build one.

    Thanks guys!
     
  20. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    You are saying that only a few CS go wary -- and not every CS on the map???
     

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