[NFP] City-States Elimination Thread

[TMC24601]

Akkad [11]
Antananarivo [17]
Auckland [18]
Babylon [11] (14-3). Too dependent on situation. If you're being Russia or Greece for example then great, but if you aren't earning a lot of great writer points then isn't that useful.
Bologna [20]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [16]
Granada [13]
Hunza [4]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [19]
Ngazargamu [6]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [20]
Yerevan [22]
Zanzibar [20] (19+1). Use of 12 amenities is so good, particularly for trade in the early game. Clearly deserves to be in it for the long haul

 

[hhhhhh]

The current scores looks fair to me - good ones are high and bad ones are low.
(22h since my last post, so I jumped in.)

Akkad [11]
Antananarivo [17]
Auckland [18]
Babylon [11]
Bologna [20]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [16]
Granada [13]
Hunza [4]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20] (19 + 1) This is "the" city state that changes your game. If you have this CS early on then a huge bottleneck (early-mid game culture) is removed.
Ngazargamu [6]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [20]
Yerevan [19] (22 - 3) Maybe it's useful if you plan to spam Apostles, but that doesn't justify it having the highest score among all city states.
Zanzibar [20]

Edit: I thought Yerevan let you choose Monk/Nihang upgrade but apparently I was wrong. I guess it's the Moksha promotion that allows you to choose that? Anyway I edited that part out. It seems like my downvote brought 5 upvote lol.

 

[JJOne]

Akkad [11]
Antananarivo [14] (17-3) It usually takes a long time before you get enough great people to really profit from this one.
Auckland [18]
Babylon [11]
Bologna [20]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [16]
Granada [13]
Hunza [4]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [6]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21] (20+1) I find myself using the faith buying power of Valletta quite often.
Yerevan [19]
Zanzibar [20]

We've reached the point in this list where I begin to weigh the actually bonuses of the City-State way more than simply what type of City-State they are. As such, I'm not giving Taruga the benefit of the doubt for just being a scientific City-State.

According to the topic rules, I think you should have ignored the envoy bonuses/the type from the start.

 

[monikernemo]

Akkad [11]
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [15] (18 - 3)
Just to remind that Auckland bonuses kick in rather late, only very potent in the industrial era.
I think people forget that you get +3 production on shallow waters only after building a shipyard, which is quite a hefty investment on its own.
On the other hand, for land cities with decent amount of hills, your mines are around +4 to +5 prod in the industrial era.
Babylon [11]
Bologna [20]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17] (16 +1)
Very potent cultural city state. While the Batey is less spammable than the Moai, it can generate tons of culture in the right configuration.
The only down side is you have to consider the tradeoff of not harvesting resources.
Batey has good synergy with Kupe and possibly Pedro.
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [16]
Granada [13]
Hunza [4]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [6]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [19]
Zanzibar [20]

 

[TCBB]

Akkad [11]
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [15]
Babylon [8] (11-3) As someone else said, a decent bonus in the hands of a Pericles or Peter. But most leaders aren’t going to be earning enough great writers to make Babylon worthwhile. Same principle for the relics / artefacts.
Bologna [20]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [16]
Granada [13]
Hunza [4]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [6]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [20] (19+1) Can’t possibly be voting Yerevan down yet. It is no exaggeration to say that any Civ or leader - yes, any - can win a easy religious victory if they find Yerevan early. It’s that powerful. Honestly, it could win this whole thing depending on what we choose to value in the top 10: if we go for the generalists who offer something for every victory type, then Bologna or Antananarivo or Zanzibar should win; but if we value specialists who offer unbeatable bonuses to a specific victory type, then Yerevan is clearly the winner, no question about it.
Zanzibar [20]

 

[Solver]

Akkad [12] (11 + 1) Akkad's getting downvoted too much IMO. It's not a bonus that goes obsolete. Akkad's bonus works against all cities, at all points in the game. It lets your Swordsmen attack cities with ancient walls, but it also lets your Infantry attack cities with urban defenses.
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [15]
Babylon [8]
Bologna [20]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [13] (16 - 3) Downvote for being one of the few remaining suzerain bonuses that can stop applying entirely. And it's not up to you when it stops applying. The +15% science is especially useful on high difficulties, to catch up to the AI's bonuses quicker. But on those high difficulties, you will fight a surprise war, possibly two early.
Granada [13]
Hunza [4]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [6]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [20] Completely agreed with TCBB above. No CS has as great an impact on any victory condition as Yerevan.
Zanzibar [20]

 

[kaspergm]

Akkad [12]
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [15]
Babylon [8] (8-3) Way too situational, and even in those situations not that great imo. It's not like I'll skip building Campuses if Babylon is in the game, so while the extra science is handy, it's not that impactful imo.
Bologna [21] (20+1) I love the Oracle. I love Pingala. And I love Bologna. I particularly love the combination of Oracle AND Pingala AND Bologna.
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [13]
Granada [13]
Hunza [4]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [6]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [20] I also agree what was said above wrt. Yerevan, arguably the one city state than can make the biggest single difference in terms of winning the game.
Zanzibar [20]

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Akkad [12]
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [15]
Babylon [5]
Bologna [21]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [13]
Granada [13]
Hunza [1] (3-1) Seems to be surviving through anonymity. Definitely deserves to go now.
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [6]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [21] (20+1) Pretty much as said. It's happened more than once that I'll start a new game intending to do science or domination, then discover Yerevan on turn 10 and switch immediately to religion. Rush Moksha's 'Patron Saint' promotion, and hey presto, you've won Deity RV as Shaka.
Zanzibar [20]

 

[Leucarum]

Akkad [12]
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [15]
Babylon [5]
Bologna [21]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [13]
Granada [13]
Hunza [1]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [3] (6-3) A cute CS with Mali, less potent in general though
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [22] (21+1) Extremely potent for an RV.
Zanzibar [20]

 

[JhGf_123]

Akkad [12]
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [15]
Babylon [5]
Bologna [21]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [13]
Granada [13]
Hunza [0] ELIMINATED. These ‘earn x gold on your trade routes’ city-states are not hugely impactful. It’s nice if you do have them, but there are much better ways to invest your envoys.
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [3]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [23] (22+1) it might just be that I’ve been playing a lot of religion recently after the last elimination thread, but I have particularly strong feelings for Yerevan at the moment. The ability to pick Debater or Proselytiser or Translator at will (or any two of them with “patron saint”) is pushing on the boundary of “broken”. Combine that with an “Exodist of the evangelist” golden age, oh my.
Zanzibar [20]

 

[thekingofsalem]

Akkad [12]
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [15]
Babylon [2] (5-3) Pretty useless unless you're going for a ton of great writers
Bologna [21]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [13]
Granada [13]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [3]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [23]
Zanzibar [21] (20+1) Probably the most consistent city-state. You always want to be the suzerain of Zanzibar in any game. I can see why the sultan of Oman wanted to live there.

 

[Francel]

Akkad [9] (12-3) - A combination of support units and range/siege units can already be used to tear down walls. Sure, this is nice to have, but offers little that can’t be readily achieved with other tactics.
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [15]
Babylon [2]
Bologna [21]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [13]
Granada [13]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [3]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [24] - first time upvoting the same city state, as I try to spread votes around. Not my style to call out others’ votes, but the rationale for the downvote eludes me. They don’t do anything for monks or nihangs afaik. Let me echo the excellent points made by others. This truly puts religious victory in reach for everyone, save Kongo. It is unique or nearly unique in that regard. Kabul might also qualify for domination. Anyways, science, culture, and gold can all be earned in a multitude of ways. Yerevan takes apostles from meh to oooh yeaaa. This might be a cognitive bias, but my apostles without yerevan seem to nearly always get the promotion choices I don’t want, ie heathen conversion, and thus aren’t nearly as strong.
Zanzibar [21]

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Akkad [9]
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [12] 15-3 Coastal cities are still pretty meh and this bonus is too weak to change that
Babylon [2]
Bologna [21]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [13]
Granada [13]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [3]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [25] - 24 + 1, one of the strongest CS for a RV
Zanzibar [21]

 

[Jewelrunna]

Akkad [6] (9 - 3): Akkad's bonus isn't negligible, but it also can be easily covered by some a single siege unit and a few support attachments. It's also a bonus that becomes useless as the game progresses. If I find Akkad early, it means I don't have to waste time building those units, which is certainly good. If I find them later into the game, they're essentially irrelevant. Ngazargamu is the much more useful military City-State.
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [12]
Babylon [3] (2 + 1): To boost Babylon's standing a bit, they're probably the best scientific City-State if you're playing a culture game. In situations where you'd rather have a bunch of Theater Squares prioritized over Campuses, this City-State is really helpful. The remaining science City-States are better, yes, but Babylon are still worth sticking around a bit longer.
Bologna [21]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [13]
Granada [13]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [3]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [25]
Zanzibar [21]

 

[tedhebert]

Akkad [6]
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [12]
Babylon [3]
Bologna [21]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [13]
Granada [13]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [20] (19+1) Long time anyone's upvoted them. They're better than many who have better score
Nan Madol [20]
Ngazargamu [0] (3-3) ELIMINATED. this is the time for it to go. Not good enough compared to the rest left
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [25]
Zanzibar [21]

 

[Josephias]

Akkad [6]
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [12]
Babylon [3]
Bologna [21]
Buenos Aires [12] (15-3) Don't feel like taking out Bablylon or Ngazargamu myself (well, I see for Ngazargamu I was ninja'd), after elimitating Kandy in the last post. And just to explain post #86 in wich it was downvoted. There is 12 bonus resources in the game (I actually count 11, but I may be missing something), and they only provide +1 ammenity each. So, Buenos Aires provides only the same bonus as Zanzibar gives right away, after you have had to work to get them all. Seen this way, the bonus is pretty bland. And even if being amenity-related, at this point in the list, it is not enough to survive (Muscat has fallen aready, as far as I see). Not the worst of the current pack, but is high enough to be able to take a hit.
Brussels [15] (14+1) On the other hand, I would like to defend Brussels. Yes, you are not always building wonders, but these are an activity with an important lasting effect. And, especially they are a race in which winner takes all. It is not ony shaving x turns in your wonder production. It is getting to finish Petra the turn before Saladin does: that is the important thing.
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [13]
Granada [13]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [20]
Nan Madol [20]]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [25]
Zanzibar [21]

 

[JesseS]

Akkad [6]
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [12]
Babylon [3]
Bologna [22] (21+1) Bologna basically doubles your great people points, which is really useful for all games.
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [13]
Granada [10] (13-3) It's only really worth building alcazars on high appeal tiles and there tends to be pretty high competition for those tiles with campuses, holy sites, and theater squares. If playing culturally, it's maybe worth it to manage the appeal for high yield alcazars to boost your science, but I'd almost certainly prefer to have La Venta or Rapa Nui as the tourism output is much higher from them. If playing a science game, you'll only really get a few where you happen to have high appeal and already built a campus elsewhere. Not useless, but the worst of the unique improvements left.
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [25]
Zanzibar [21]

 

[bengalryan9]

Akkad [6]
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [12]
Babylon [eliminated] (3-3) Even if you are going for a cultural victory, how much science are you really getting from this?
Bologna [22]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [14] (13+1) It's not *that* hard to avoid war once you get past the inevitable early AI rush... it's not like the AI is smart enough to declare just to take this away from you. Even if the worst case scenario happens and you do lose the bonus, you're just back to your normal science production for 10 turns and then the bonus kicks right back in once you're back at peace. I'm not doing the math but I figure the extra science you earn while at peace will more than makeup for the rare times you're at war (unless you're playing very aggressively in which case Geneva just isn't a good fit for you).
Granada [10]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [19]
Nan Madol [20]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [25]
Zanzibar [21]

 

[CoconutTank]

Akkad [3] (6-3) Maybe Akkad's bonuses are helpful early on, but they lose their usefulness even partway in the early game. When it comes to taking walled cities, having multiple ranged units and siege units that can focus fire works more consistently. Late game, siege units + balloons/drones and air units are still the better means of punching through, with some cavalry on the side to finish the job. It feels like one would need a specific time and specific army composition to make much use out of Akkad's bonus.
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [12]
Bologna [23] (22+1) Gonna give Bologna a small vote up, not that it needs much help though. Getting more Great Persons is a great bonus for pretty much any victory condition, and there are multiple other GPP bonuses that can stack with Bologna's. Bologna + Divine Spark + Oracle + Pingala's Grants, mmm yes. I think the top contenders will be Zanzibar, Bologna and Valletta.
Buenos Aires [12]
Brussels [15]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [14]
Granada [10]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [20]
Nan Madol [20]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [25]
Zanzibar [21]

 

[Sirsquier]

Akkad [0] (3 - 3) Eliminated. Pretty weak honestly. Their bonus doesn't even affect the late game.
Antananarivo [14]
Auckland [12]
Bologna [23]
Buenos Aires [15]
Brussels [14]
Caguana [17]
Cahokia [19]
Geneva [14]
Granada [10]
Kabul [15]
Kumasi [17]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [20] (19 + 1) I think we all know why their getting this vote.
Nan Madol [20]
Rapa Nui [20]
Valletta [21]
Yerevan [25]
Zanzibar [21]