Civ 3 GOTM#3 *Spoiler* talks

[belzedar]

With counting the tiles for domination is it every LAND tile within your culture borders must be less than 59% of the overall LAND tiles?
or was it 66%?

So you need to know the whole map before you can actually add it up...

So to delay a domination victory would be pretty hard with borders expanding etc, alot of counting and management?

Do landlocked lakes count as water?

Im asking because Im planning on playing this GOTM through to the end and dont want to accidently get domination..

 

[Eliezar]

I hope someone can explain the domination ending because I sure can't. By my best estimation I had 90 percent of the land area covered in a game and didn't have domination yet. I know that that is supposedly more than is needed, but it wasn't. I just can't figure it out, but maybe for some reason it does not count your territory over water but does count your opponents territory over water and the polar caps. I dunno.

Eliezar

 

[belzedar]

Eliezar its a very confusing way to win... ive had games where i was sure i was going to get domination any second with my borders expanding but it just never happens... other games just playing normally and then out of the blue bang domination....

Im not at home for a few days so i cant do it .. but one way to test it would be make a small easy to work with map..
say 20x20 for 400 squares total land only with 1 other civ and test it like that..
then run same test with a few water tiles..

The only other thing i can think of is that you need to hold the land for a certain period of time.. which is the same way the 'territory' part of the score works... the longer you hold your land the more points its worth.. on a log curve slowing down over time though.

 

[belzedar]

I tried the 'no palace' start in a different game last night, wow no corruption is so nice haha... 26 cities at ~700bc and 4 outta 7 rivals knocked out... on monarch.

I suspect this may have been known for a while.. as ive seen posts with people begging for huts to be turned off on any GOTM style games for the past few weeks.

Anyone who submits a 'no palace' game should have their score halved

 

[wizlock]

yeah .. even though i did find this 'no palace' effect on blind luck i must admit it feels a bit cheesy .. i'm playing the game just for the fun of it (it is pretty easy though) .. and i dont think i'll take it to the end and maximize the score ..

removing huts from GOTM is probably the only solution to this 'tactic' .. unless firaxis makes a quick patch

 

[Squiggy]

Well, I got started on my GOTM today, and it looks to be a fast one.

The terrible starting position meant that I couldn't build Settlers quite as fast as everyone else, which put a dent in my score. Found the Japanese relatively quickly, then put together an army of about 20 Swordsmen and attacked. I quickly razed Edo, Kyoto and Tokyo, then moved on toward the western shore. I had conquered most of northern Japan, but I had a lot of trouble building Settlers quickly, so my score stayed about the same. Finally the Japanese begged for peace, so I take all their techs, gold and an Iron city. I take a moment to bask in my glory, then look at the game year.....


200 A.D..........and I haven't saved yet. Autosave only goes back 6-7 turns. So no 1 A.D. save.


Looks like I'll be playing this one over.

 

[Aeson]

Domination is triggered when approximately 80% of the land squares are culturally claimed on a standard sized map. Water squares don't count at all, so build as many coastal cities as you can. On a map with 1519 total land squares, domination was triggered when 1214 were claimed (~80%). On a map with 1862 total land squares, domination was triggered at 1457 (~78%). On a map with 100 total land squares, I wasn't able to trigger domination, the most I claimed was 90 squares though. It seems the smaller the number of land tiles, the higher the percentage that is needed to win by domination. It might also have something to do with map size to landmass ratio, but I was only testing on standard sized maps.

When determining the overall number of tiles for a map, the formula is (1/2Width * 1/2Height) * 2. A 100x100 map has 5000 total spaces, instead of the obvious number of 10000. This is because of the diamond shape of the spaces and the rectangular map shape. A 100x100 map that was in a diamond shape would have the 10000 spaces.

I was going to do a few more tests, but finding out that my saves had been overwritten ended that. Here is how the testing was done, if anyone is interested in running some more. I used the 7x7 (49) brush to apply land to ocean maps in the editor. A seperate 7x7 island was created for the AI (set players to 2). I just kept track of how many times I placed the 49 tiles for a total land tile count. To speed up developement, make setters use no population, have a cost of 1, and 25 movement. Whatever terrain you are using, give 5+ production. I also found that setting warriors/spearmen/archers to very high costs (I used 200) sped things up considerably as well. I built cities in a grid pattern, so that each city would get 9 spaces claimed. Then I just kept track of how many cities I had built each turn. When domination was triggered, I loaded up the previous year's auto save, and figured out the exact number of cities that would trigger it. Fine tuning was done with cities along coastal areas that could only claim 6, 4, 3, or 2 land spaces.

 

[Aeson]

One other thing. The time you hold the land doesn't matter. At first I had thought that that was what was responsible for the % difference I was seeing. But after building up to 2 tiles less than the limit I left my empire for about 50 turns and it never triggered domination until I actually claimed those remaining 2 tiles.

 

[Genuis]

I finally got my great leader...
Now I am going to RULE the WORLD!

My one issue is, my leader is named Kublai Khan. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Kublai a Mongolian descended from Genghis? But I guess the Mongols did control China for a long time so it sort of makes sense...thoughts, anyone?

Anyway its getting close to AD and I have wiped out the Persians. I think the Japs are gonna have to be next since they only have a few cities. Maybe I will provoke a war between the Babylonians and the French, my only true rivals, then backstab the winner...

Should I go for the Great Lighthouse with my leader or rush the Hanging Gardens instead? Or should I build an army of swordsmen and get the Epic? Help me out here... I won't feel guilty about accepting tips since I probably won't submit my game anyway.

 

[Aeson]

Kublai Khan was indeed the grandson of Ghengis. He finished the conquest of the Chinese, and then set up the Yuan dynasty, for all intents and purposes assimilating into Chinese culture. He was a conquerer, and a Chinese Emporer, so it does make some sense. Just a little bit weird that a Chinese hero would be one who conquered the Chinese. Since the Mongols aren't a Civ in this game, it isnt such a big deal. Some of the Greek hero's are Trojan, and Alexander was Macedonian. Probably other Civ's in the game with hero's that weren't exactly from their culture.

I built an army with my first leader, and quickly switched from the great library to build the heroic epic the first turn it was available. Just a few turns later I got another great leader. If you have a city that could build the Heroic epic quickly (its the same size as the great wall) then an army would probably be your best bet, as you sound like you want to continue conquest. Usually you can build the lighthouse quite easily without a leader, as the AI doesn't seem to like to build it much. The hanging gardens are largely useless, especially with so many luxuries available and at regent level. The other good options would be the pyramids if it is still available, or building the forbidden palace. This is a spoiler thread right... I don't know how much you've explored, but the best place for a forbidden palace on this map would have to be near the French.

 

[Xentropy]

Originally posted by Aeson

Those ******** hiding the horses under a city certainly was a dirty trick too... especially since it wouldnt work the other way around, the AI always knows where everything is.

Hey, Aeson, did you realize you could hit Ctrl-Shift-M to clear cities and improvements off the map to more easily see resources? The AI can't really "hide" anything from the watchful gaze of the mighty hotkey :>

 

[pilferman]

Since this is a spoiler thread, I figured it would be ok to share my game story with the community. Here it is, in a nutshell.

Immediately built 4 scout warriors. Discovered the Japanese almost immediately. Attacked Japanese and killed their first 3 cities at first contact. It only took 4 warriors and an archer (and a lot of luck). I looked all over the oversized peninsula for the remaining Japanese city but it wasn't there...anywhere. Confused, I contacted them and negotiated peace in exchange for their only remaining non-capital city. Somehow they had founded 2 cities just north of France, on the western shore. I have no idea how, since this was very early in the game and nobody had mapmaking yet, and they had no contact with the other civilizations (another mystery). Anyway, I had no desire to send my warrior army across the continent to destroy the Japanese. It would be more trouble than it would be worth. From that point on I focused solely on settler manufacturing, since I was way behind. After I had enough cities, I focused on getting the diplomatic victory, since conquest would be quite difficult and cumbersome. I used the Persians, Babylonians, and the French to catapult myself into the modern age and toward the UN. The English and Indians had destroyed the Egyptians. The Indians were then consumed by the "rampaging English" armies, leaving England in control of a super-nation. They managed to keep pace independently.

Long story short, I got a diplomatic victory around 1460AD. It was a pretty good game for me. I got ~2650 in GOTM#1 and I got killed by the Romans in GOTM#2. This time I got around 3200. Not my best score, but very good considering the starting situation for this game. I think knocking the Japanese out very early in the game is essential to victory (based on starting locations and surrounding terrain). That's it.

 

[ProPain]

Originally posted by pagh80
I have never played with barbarians before and i just got a message about mayor barb uprissing. So far the barbs have been pretty easy but now i face 3 camps with 20 horsemen in each of them trampling towards my cities.... not good. Have anyone else tried this disturbing experience and will it happen more than once??

Yes it will happen more than once if you don't keep a close eye on barb camp developments.

Just like Aeson I have no problems with barbs as long as you keep watching closely for new camps to pop up and razing them quickly. I have 3 swordsmen patroling the southern icy part of the continent continouisly just for this purpose. Works fine.

You also won't have the uprisings when you settle your whole continent because camps won't pop up inside your borders. I even tend to get them only in fog of war areas but I'm not sure if they won't pop up in visible areas outside your borders. You can try to station units in a way that won't leave any fog of war and see what happens.

When you're not able to prevent them from taking a city you can always give it away to another nation. This way you won't lose your gold and they will. Taking it back will be a breeze since there will be no defenders in it. It will cause war though and seriously damage your diplomatic status. If you decide not to conquer it back it will actually boost your diplo status with the concerning civ since the AI loves to get cities as a gift and somehow doesn't understand you just wanted to drain his coffers

Good Luck!

 

[Hobbes]

Started by building my capital in the spot I was given (I have a weakness for that). Built a warrior, archer and barracks. Have found this strategy works well if you plan the despotic, militaristic rush. Discovered the Japanese capital with my archer and after trading for a tech, attacked. Captured the capital and another city but they respawned, so I soon signed a peace treaty and got three tech's and a pile of cash to keep me happy.

Soon afterward I discovered the Persians, and early in the game I really dislike the Persians and their immortals. So, I rushed a number of swordsmen and gave the Persians the same treatment I did with the Japanese. They also managed to respawn on the Southern fringe of the continent, right next to an iron resource. I extorted some cash with the promise of peace, and as they had not yet discovered iron working, I let them live until they got that advance. As soon as they discovered iron, it was goodbye Xeres. [punch]

Having developed a reputation for going to the pantry and opening up a can of whop a** at the slightest provocation, I next called up the Babylons and demanded philosophy, guess what I got it. It did not stop me from going to war with them a few turns later to get a city that had a couple of nice spice tiles. I even convinced the Japanese who where on the Babylons other border to declare war.

Well, my plan of world domination has been somewhat interrupted at the present moment. Can you say "massive barbarian uprising", three in the same turn, and then another at the next turn. My expansion plans have now been curtailed, I have to build up my homeland defense, and expand my borders. I will do this for the next 25-30 turns or so, until I discover chivalry, then the rush building of riders, in my over populated cites should prove interesting.

Part two______________________________

Well, here is the short version of what happened next. I finished off :shotgun: Babylon and Japan. I used my first GL to rush build The Workshop, right after I had finished building Sistine Chapel in my capital. My second GL went to building FP in the former Persian Capital, my third went to building my first army. Finished off France and with nearly the entire continent in my control I set off to building the infrastructure of the island.

With only England and India left I decided to try for a culture victory (or so I thought). I put my workers on auto, and with a big lead in tech's I thought I had it all wrapped up with my capital pushing towards 20,000 and my total culture pushing towards 100,000. But seven turns before the projected finish date, totally out of the blue, the English declare war on me. I manage to convince the Indians to go in with me, and I throw in some extra tech's just to make them happy. Well, elections for Secretary General pop up, and since India is now my friend, I roll the dice. Luck is a Lady tonight, Ghandi votes for me, and I win, diplomatic victory.

 

[Jimbo3DC]

Barbarians are nice to change your first warriors into elite units without having to have barracks. Just send out your fresh warriors to search for encampments for combat practice, and they usually come out on top and experienced (veteran, elite, Hero!). Plus, you'll get the gold from their defeat.

As for my game, IT SUCKS! Unlike other more sucessful players, I meekly avoided intruding into Japan's territory with the hopes of establishing a culturally giant / few cities empire. No such luck, as the terrain makes it difficult to get anything done fast. For the longest time, I've been behind on Wonders, with Forbidden Palace as my only highlight to brag about. I DO, however, have a corner on steel, and just developed gunpowder. I'm going to try to attack Japan now for their greener fields, but I'm wary of the Samurai units. Any suggestions? Many of my cities cannot grow beyond 3 to 6 due to their location in hills and mountains...I've razed the jungles that inhibit the growth of other cities, which has helped a little.

Jimbo
jimbo.info

 

[Squiggy]

If you've got Steel, and the Japanese still have Samurai, then get some Cavalry in there and storm their cities. If you don't have the resources, trade for them or use Riflemen: They have a 1:1 chance of beating a samurai offensively and a 3:2 chance of winning defensively.

 

[Smirk]

pilferman, Thats not a mystery its called a respawn, it happens when you take out a civ early on when there is still plenty of land left to settle.

I guess the intention in the game was to settle all the available land and then start warring. Also even if there isn't any land and you destroy a civ's last city if they have a settler walking around you will have to kill that to destroy them, however they will settle immediately if they can.

Same for the mystery of having two cities, they get some bonus units and techs (and gold) when they are forced into a respawn, you would too if it happened to you or so I've read.



My game story so far, settled where I started, found some usable land towards the west, flood plains. I had 3 cities around that area then took out the japanese (they respawned) where there are even more flood plains, I figure I'll have about 6 cities rushing in this game which is a lot, I should be able to easily conquer with that number of rush cities.
I abandoned my capital to get the free palace move. I have contact with the french, babs and persians. I'm assuming the rest are on another continent. So I rebuilt a coastal city to maybe get the lighthouse (no leaders yet though) and to build galleys. I'm still in the 1000BC area so.
I started my tech route to get horseriding, which was a waste since I haven't seen any horses. I just got iron working, and have a settler on route to settle and get iron. My workers have already roaded up to it so I be rushing swords in a turn or so.
I'm not too worried, this is regent level after all, conquest by 200BC perhaps. I'm a bit off any "really good game" since the start was rough and I moved my capital, not to mention marching settlers across that landmass.

I attempted an earlier conquest of the japanese, but as soon as I took their capital, 2 barb warriors showed up, so I left his capital undefended, and his solo warrior retook it, and he then had to deal with the barbs. Looks like he actually defended from those 2 warriors with his, my archer had only 3 health so I didn't want to risk it.

 

[Genuis]

Whoops, I did something dumb. I used Kublai to build the lighthouse as Beijing is not a huge production city (yet). The old Japanese capital is turning out to be my best city with population 7 (go figure, I don't have aqueduct/construction yet) and a tiny bit of corruption.
I am in the process of wiping out the Japs for good. Its about 300 AD. Hammurabi is helping me but Joan doesn't seem to be too cooperative. My galley-born army will arrive after Toku is gone so she might have to be the next target.

One question: if you abandon the capital, where does the palace go? Your biggest city, or the one closest to the former capital, or is it random?

Anyway I forgot to save at AD so I guess I won't win the contest. Not that I would anyway. Oh well.

 

[Elfi Wolfe]

it is in the later part of the game.
I got armor and mech inf, France still has caverly.
only 4 empires left, France (just took out babalon) and Egypt/England.

Still at peace with france, france isn't at war with anyone, france just moved 4 massive stacks of units into my Empire.
Count is about 50 Cav, 30 Musketiers.

Now does this look like war? Strange, the year is 1914.

P.S. just glad noone has nuclear weapons yet.
p.p.s. Has anyone ever seen the AI do a first strike with Nukes?

 

[gonzo_for_civ]

Well, I decided to go with a new strategy this game. I built my capital and then built 2 warriors and an archer for exploration. I found Kyoto and took it and then the Japanese gave my 1 city for peace. My strategy was to let them build cities then, in one big swoop take those cities, make peace, and let them build some more.

It's worked pretty good, it's 430 AD and the Japs have one city. I have captured about 8-10 of theirs. I haven't even seen a samurai. Pretty soon I will finish them off and kill the persians so that I will have a small chance to compete with gigantic France. Maybe, when I'm done with Persia, I will kill the babs and then France. Who knows? I'm, guessing that all the other civs are on another continent which I will soon attempt to find.

Oh yeah, I am currently tied for 1 in tech but I am only at 10% tech. I either buy it or force it out of the Japs.

I'm thinking about conquest in the mid 1800s with tanks and infantry or maybe a diplo victory for my first time.