Civ 3 GOTM#5 *Spoiler* talks

Originally posted by Magnum
quote:
1- You are absolutely right. I thought you need saltpeter to have rifleman. What I can't understand is why the AI keeps throwing longbowmen after me if they can produce riflemen (same attack but 6 defense).
2-I had around 15 cavalry and 5 infantry in a size 1 town. If 20 american soldiers are not enough to control one enemy citizen, then I suggest that they send their entire army to Guantanamo Bay. This revolt also cost me the loss of 10 artillery and a few ironclads.
3- This is more than double defense, it's a joke. I have always used artillery in previous games, but with the new patch I believe they are useless.

I think I'm going to read more about the 1.17f. I'm an Emperor level player and this was my first game with the new patch.

There is no change to artillery vs. units, only vs. buildings. This makes it much more likely to take a city with improvements intact. I like the change even though the percentage of misses is way up.

The AI makes longbows because they are categorized as offensive units. Also Riflemen are 80 shields, Longbows 40.

If your culture controls all 21 squares around the city, you need double the pop in units to prevent culture flipping. Each square in enemy culture adds a unit or two. In my March game, the Egypt culture was almost double mine. This probably increases the number some more. You can probably add some more to deal with the close Egyptian capital. Better to raze and resettle in this kind of situation. If there is a valuable wonder, station troops just outside of the city (my 1.16 way of dealing with the issue).

Emperor level is much tougher with the version 1.17f AI tech trading. Bring your "A" game :)
 
What is the best way to deal with overcrowding?

I'm a communist government, at war. My cities are approximately size 8 and smaller. I just upped entertainment to 10%. I have 7 luxuries. Are there any cities improvemnets which specifically combat overcrowding?
 
GOTM5

In my battles against France and Japan, I didn't get one great leader despite using many elite fighters. Now that I am fighting Russia, I have earned 3. The first built an army, which allowed me to build the Heroic Epic. The second came just before the epic was complete, and the third after its completion.

I thought I would share this and maybe somebody could figure out how to increase the occurance of the leaders. Isn't it GREAT when they appear!
 
Took me a few hundred years to build my capitol. There was no way I was building in the starting position! I do wish I had moved further west though...

I was able to kill off the French. Before I could think about dealing with Russia the Japanese landed an escorted settler on my part of the continent. I attacked. After a couple thousand years of war I finally had to give in and let Japan have New York. Russia had been attacking me off and on. I had 8 catapults and used my first leader to make an army of swordsmen. Held off the Ruskies and Japs for along time with those. Finally lost my army and half my catapults. Had another leader in the wings. (Couldn't use him for anything else - I was way behind in tech and the wonder races and didn't have enough cities to build a second army.) Used him for another army but lost it before I even got the third swordman in it. Lost Washington (the Russians razed it) and made peace (had to give Boston to Catherine). (I was able to build New Washington close by.)

Now, back when I was cocky, I had built a few galleys thinking I could invade Japan. They explored instead and I finally made contact with Greece and Egypt. They only thing that has kept me going to this point is the fur exports to these two countries. I'm still at peace, a democracy, and can make infantry now. (Though my country is so poor I still have pikemen!) Greece and Japan have been fighting and I've managed to build 3 cities in the gaps left by their wars.

But the best indicator of how badly I'm doing: one of my cities overthrew my oppression but Japan refused to accept it (so I still have the city). Another tried joining Russia but Catherine wouldn't have it either!

My goal is to survive now. ..
 
Originally posted by IronKnight
GOTM5

In my battles against France and Japan, I didn't get one great leader despite using many elite fighters. Now that I am fighting Russia, I have earned 3. The first built an army, which allowed me to build the Heroic Epic. The second came just before the epic was complete, and the third after its completion.

I thought I would share this and maybe somebody could figure out how to increase the occurance of the leaders. Isn't it GREAT when they appear!

That's funny. I generated exactly 3 leaders against Russia & 0 against the rest of the world too! Though I never built the Heroic Epic, I admit, I was pretty lucky.
 
Originally posted by IronKnight
What is the best way to deal with overcrowding?

I'm a communist government, at war. My cities are approximately size 8 and smaller. I just upped entertainment to 10%. I have 7 luxuries. Are there any cities improvemnets which specifically combat overcrowding?
The best thing for happiness IMO is a Marketplace. Marketplaces are fairly cheap to build but once you have a number of luxuries they have an enormous effect on happiness.

If you have a Marketplace and more than two luxuries then you get the following number of extra happy faces:
3 luxuries: 1 extra
4 luxuries: 2 extra
5 luxuries: 4 extra
6 luxuries: 6 extra
7 luxuries: 9 extra
8 luxuries: 12 extra

Nothing else comes close to this in effectiveness! Cathedrals etc. of course do also increase your culture. And JS Bach's is great, the best wonder for happiness I think. But they are just nice, Marketplaces and luxuries are a must. With the 7 luxuries you have, a Marketplace will increase the happy faces for luxuries from 7 to 16!

I often really like the Smith's Trading Company wonder because of the number of Marketplaces I build. If you are milking a game and have 200 cities with Marketplaces (not to mention some harbors, banks, and airports) then Smith's saves 200 gold/turn just for the Marketplace maintenance.
 
Originally posted by IronKnight
What is the best way to deal with overcrowding?

I'm a communist government, at war. My cities are approximately size 8 and smaller. I just upped entertainment to 10%. I have 7 luxuries. Are there any cities improvemnets which specifically combat overcrowding?

With 7 luxuries and in communism, just maintain a police force. You could also build Settlers and make new cities in the space your attacking force just created. :)

Of course if war is not what you want, you need to build Temples etc. asap so your culture earns some respect.
 
I have finished my GOTM, and I'm happy to report that I didn't lose...although I only got the Histograph victory. I guess I'll take it. Its my best finish ever in GOTM (I always lose).

My game was marred by a long war against Russia. I dragged Greece & Egypt in with me (Japan & France were long gone). This war lasted for hundreds of years. I eventually killed of Russia. It wasn't untill the very end that Egypt & Greece participated, and even that wasn't much. How do you get the other CIV's to participate?

I killed of Russia in 1973. Greece was eliminated about a decade later. From the 1990's on, Egypt and I lived in peace. Of note, we were not technologically advanced. We only made it to Nuclear Power, tech wise in 2050. I don't know if this has anything to do with such a low number of CIVs and much World War.

Egypt had HIGH culture. I had some small tundra fringe cities pledge allegiance to Egypt, only to have Egypt refuse them. Interesting! Was that done by them to avoid annoying me? Were they afraid?

In the last 2 GOTMs I've had very low culture. I always build temples in every town early, but fail to complete any wonders. Is this why I have such low culture? If I get behind, how do I catch up?

SirPleb, thanks for the advice on Marketplaces. I will put that to use in the next GOTM!

Oh, yeah...my score. It was very low, somewhere in the mid 2000's.

Good luck to the rest.
 
Mine is over as well. I have posted most of the story in drips and drabs, I'll summarize briefly.

I get a free settler. I build about four more cities (six or seven total). I prepare for war with France. Russia attacks. I ally with France against Russia. I win a long and bloody war (about 50 turns) and take all of Russia's land. Next is Japan. The first war vs. Japan only yields a couple of cities. I finish off France. I finish off Japan. I ally with Greece against Egypt. After being allies in the war, Greece backstabs me while I have MPP and Gracious relations with me. I ally with Egypt against Greece. I prepare an army for attacking Egypt, but my population creeps up enough for a Domination victory before the assault begins.

I got one leader the entire game. Got him late in the game, after I had built the Forbidden Palace and did the free palace jump. Saved him for Hoover Dam, but then did not need him. Saved him for an Army of Modern Armor, but never got that far. So I never used him. :p

My guess is that my score will be near the average. I may need to attack earlier, but it is hard to overcome my caution at the start of the game. I definitely need to work on my mid-game (early industrial age) as this is two games in a row where I got backstabbed by a Civ that I have a MPP with.

I learned about the free palace jump. It goes to the city with highest number of native citizens. I experienced major problems with corruption with the peninsula start and no leader for rushing the Forbidden Palace. I talked two long time posters, Eyrei and Zachariel, into giving the March game a try. I hope to see their comments and learn from them, especially on dealing with corruption.

Thanks Matrix and Thunderfall.
 
The Build Out

This month's GOTM looked like a good start position. Luxuries, lake, and a good mix of grass and hills visible right away. How wrong this was, it was a small peninsula with the land near by consisting of all hills, mountains and tundra.

I sent my scout out to explore the world and crammed three towns into the small peninsula. I soon discovered the French and the Russians and saw their starting positions were much better than mine.

After the first 3 towns, the closest available good land was just south of the French. I managed to get a town there but this was already getting quite far from my capital. An early war was definitely in the cards this game.

Once iron and horses were revealed it looked promising for that first war. Iron and horses appeared just north of my starting position and the French had neither. The Russians had two sources of iron, one right near Moscow and a second one far east of their capital. I quickly built cities near the resources north of my capital to claim them and began preparations for the first wars.

First Wars

The French were geographically the closest and the weakest of my neighbors and as such, were my first target. No pop-rushing military units slowed preparations a little, but I don't think it would have helped much on this map anyway.

I sent a small stack of horses, archers, and spearmen to Paris to cut all roads while I engaged them down south. Declaring war on the French was my only diplomatic black mark until much later when I decided to milk the game.

The Russians beat me to it and took the southern city so I gathered my forces near Paris. Once the stack was a sufficient size, I razed Paris and razed all other French towns. In hindsight, I probably should have taken them as the French were removed from the game and culture flipping wouldn't have been a problem. However it was 3 AM an I wasn't thinking all that clearly.

Once the French were finished off the Russians conveniently declared war on me. They had a large number of forces wandering through the tundra north of my capital so the first priority was defense. Catapults were now in the picture so I added them to my defensive arsenal. The Russian's attack was quite clumsy and I managed to destroy all their forces with almost no casualties.

I then captured their eastern most city located near a large cache of gems and got a great leader from the battle. I captured one more city near another gems source and built a new city just west of that one on the Russian front lines. In this city, I used the great leader to build a forbidden palace. This placement improved the productivity of all towns in the former French territory and would make towns up to around Moscow quite productive (once they were taken of course).

By this point the Russians had 3 cities east of Moscow and a number of cities west of Moscow.

I then sent a mixed stack of catapults, spearmen, swordsmen and horses to Moscow. This was a large enough force to travel around unmolested, but they would have difficulty taking and holding Moscow. I used this stack to cut all roads to Moscow and cut the roads to the iron. This left the three cities east of Moscow isolated and the rest of their empire somewhat crippled. I then used the stack to ensure the roads weren’t rebuilt and to pick off any stray Russians.

I built up my forces and captured the 3 cities east of Moscow at my leisure. Once this was done, I razed Moscow and rebuilt on the same tile.

Technology and Trading

My technology strategy throughout the ancient and middle ages was to buy or trade for most technologies, keeping research at 10% throughout. When selecting a research project, I would select a technology I didn't want or one I thought the AI would not research. My reasoning was twofold:
  • Any important technology will likely be discovered by one of the AI opponents first and could be bought.
  • Any technology discovered is worth more if no one else has it.
Furthermore, I never sold my contacts and bought contacts as soon as available. At one point, I had contact with all opponents except the Egyptians. All others only knew about the opponents on their island. I was able to broker technology between the two groups at premium prices until around the start of the middle ages.

For most of this period, I almost always got a technology for less than 100 gold and often for free or at a profit through brokering.

This strategy also allowed me to focus on military production. No need for libraries, and gold was always plentiful.

About half way through the middle ages (middle middle ages), technologies started becoming more expensive. This may have been due to less contact between players and player attrition. There were several wars, the French were gone, and the Russians were in bad shape and likely not doing much research.

I started building libraries in some cities and increased my research percentage. My form of government was republic so I was able to research technologies in a reasonable amount of time. I still bought technology when available but seldom sold any technology I researched. At that point, I started pulling ahead in technology.

Securing Luxuries

At some point during the first wars, the Greeks declared war on me. I can't remember why but I think the Russians dragged them into it. I never signed peace with the Greeks as they were on another island and their attacks were merely a mild nuisance.

The Greeks shared an island with the Japanese and had two types of luxuries within their boundaries. They were also located just south of my capital so any cities I built there would be moderately productive. To me this seemed like ample reason for a full-scale invasion.

I was still engaged with the Russians, but had grabbed pretty much all the territory I wanted from them. I began construction on some Caravels with a Greek invasion in mind.

As the invasion time drew near, I contacted the Japanese and signed an alliance with them against the Greeks. By this time, I had signed peace with the Russians, built 4 caravels and upgraded them to galleons. I would have sufficient troops for the invasion in about 5 turns.

I invaded with 4 caravels carrying 5 cavalry, 5 riflemen, 5 cannons and a settler. I landed on the first turn and was not attacked. On the second turn I built a town and razed a nearby Greek city. On the third turn I bought the barracks improvement and reinforcements arrived: more cavalry and some obsolete swordsmen. The swordsmen were used to help rush a temple, library and harbor over the next three turns.

In the following turns, I razed 3 more Greek cities including their capital and resettled. The Greeks never mounted a counter attack, likely because of the difficulties the Japanese were causing.

The invasion went much easier than anticipated which got me looking for other Greek targets. Lo and behold, an island with spices due west. I had 5 luxuries at this point and spices would make 6.

I ferried some cavalry and riflemen from the conquered Greek territory to Spice Island. More where ferried from the home island along with settlers. I left adequate forces on the conquered land but they probably wouldn't be needed. The Japanese were going to town with the Greeks and it looked as though they would clear them off the island within a few turns.

The conquest of Spice Island went quickly. During the battle I got my second great leader and used this to create an army. This army was used to destroy the last Greek city on the island which would allow me to build the Heroic Epic, Military Academy and eventually the Pentagon.

Wonders

I didn't bother with any wonders until late in the middle ages. This start position required efficiency and I couldn't afford to have a top production city out of commission for a long period of time. Using leaders wasn't an option as they were scarce in this game; only two by the start of the industrial age.

I thought about trying for The Great Library but decided against it as I was already getting technology as soon as it was discovered. In despotism, the only use for money is trading.

My first wonder was Magellan's Voyage, a late middle ages wonder. The extra sea movement was nice, but I was more interested in triggering a golden age before F15. Magellan's Voyage is an expansionist wonder so I would also need an industrious wonder to trigger the golden age.

From this point on, I completed pretty much every wonder. I had enough high production cities that I could use a couple of them for producing wonders. At one point, I timed two wonders to complete on the same turn to avoid the AI switching after the first was completed and beat me to the second.

When I completed Hover Dam, I triggered a golden age. This was bad news for the Egyptians, my current military target at the time as I was able to produce a veritable flood of cavalry, infantry and artillery.

to be continued...
 
Well, I'm a new Civ player and I thought I'd give this GOTM lark a bash. And I'm having a total bloody nightmare!! :lol:

I only play Regent on Standard size maps so I thought this Monarch game on Small size couldn't be much different to that ... how wrong I was!

atm it's 90 BC, I have just five cities, one of which is 60% corrupt, two of the others are in hills and stuck at size 2. :eek: I'm third bottom in the histograph, at war with Catherine ("gimme this! gimme that!" :mad: :mad: :mad: ), I'm almost broke even with 0% science and 0% lux ... nightmare!!!

The thing is, right, as you all know, the starting position is total bollocks. One of my two Galleys just mapped out the perimeter of the spice island, and no-one is bloody on it!. Why oh why didn't we get to start there?! I wonder how many times this Matrix geezer had to reroll the map to get such a bad position? ;)

Anyway, we'll see if I can just survive, nevermind win, nevermind winning with a good high score ...
 
launch.jpg


http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/gotm5/
 
Cool story, Zachriel. Good strategy with your palace/FP. That's what held me back from more than a decent game. What govts you were running? Seemed like you did a bunch of invasions so I wondered if you ever had a Republic.

Also, I wondered if you could've squeezed another city or 2 around your FP since they looked a little spaced to me?

It also appeared that your game could've been similar to mine wrt the end & a Space Race. Did you have much competition? I didn't have enough time to invade Egypt to control them from finishing so I had to build mine immediately & invade the 2nd last (Russia, in my game) to destroy theirs...
 
Originally posted by chiefpaco
Cool story, Zachriel. Good strategy with your palace/FP. That's what held me back from more than a decent game. What govts you were running? . . .

As soon as my scout set out, I saw the "key" to the position; the spot next to the cattle would be America's new capital.

3300bc.jpg



We established our Republic in 330 AD and ever after.

Of course, packing more cities in closer may have resulted in a higher score, but I don't play much for score. I rarely even finish a game. I normally would have quit in 1650 AD when Pax Americana began.
 
That's exactly the spot where I built New York with wandering nomads and which became my capital because...I accidentally lost Washington temporarily. :o

Anyway, my game has just finished. The French were knocked out decently by me. But then there were the Russians. We've had some wars now and then. Usually they ended in advantage to Russia, and the last one made him kick my off the continent. But just before that I had built a city on an uninhabited island in the south. I had two cities there when the Russians captured my last city and the only way to make peace with the Russians was to give one of those two to him, which I didn't want at first but when he landed about 6 cossacks near that city, I gave it after all.

Now this is actually rather funny: I was in war-time because the Russians were slaughtering me. But when they got the continent I didn't want to be at war-time anymore, so I declared war with the Japanese in hope to make peace with them afterwards to get rid of war-time. But then I made peace with the Russians so I didn't had to declare war with the Japanese. But the Japanese did land 6 cavalry near my single city. I attacked them unsuccesfully, but then they still agreed to a peace treaty, though I had to give 111 gold.

Waiting for someone to kill me finally, the Egyptians built United Nations, I voted for Cleopatra and so did two others. And I lost diplomatically with only one city left. :lol:
 
Originally posted by Matrix
That's exactly the spot where I built New York with wandering nomads and which became my capital because...I accidentally lost Washington temporarily. :o
Any town built in that spot will grow rapidly. Still, the geography as a whole was pretty bleak. With no rivers, I had to adapt to not having much income until the industrial age.

That's why Minsk flipped on me. No cash. (The blame fell on the finance minister for spending what little money we had on a new courthouse. Didn't he know there was a war on?)
 
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