Civ 5 Design Challenge II - Mechanics

[Keniisu]

Revised the Germany design to represent the Holocaust and overall war some more.

Germany (Adolf Hitler)
UA: The Hunger Plan -
When starving your Citizens gain a +15% Production boost towards military units inside your city. As well, when starving your citizens gain a bonus to your current Gold per turn depending on your Citizen count. Workers can be expended inside your city borders to grant a bonus to your Food .

UU: Panzer -
Replaces Tank. When attacking an enemy's city gain Gold for the damage dealt and more experience depending on the city's defense . Grants nearby Siege units with +10% Strength .

UB: Labor Camp -
Replaces Factory. Provides the city with a +10% Production towards buildings. Yields +4 Production . When your civilization's citizens are being starved the bonus production toward buildings becomes +20%.

 

[Cyphose]

Trying to represent genocide in a way that's beneficial to a Civilization is... not easy to handle. Then again, the Aztecs sorta flirt with that edge, though there are a lot of different factors involved in that case (e.g. it's a lot easier to portray ancient Civs doing something as savage as that, but bring it to the modern world and suddenly it's a whole lot more sobering).

EDIT: Oh! He did it, the absolute madman!

May I suggest a better name for the UA, since it's so fitting: The Hunger Plan. That was an actual Nazi plan centered around the starvation of millions in order to become self-sufficient on food production.

 

[inthesomeday]

Sure it's sobering, but it's a lot better than ignoring one of the most primary historical aspects of a civilization, one of the things said civ was even most well known for.
Imagine making a confederate states civ with a rifleman replacement, a factory replacement, and a UA about trade routes. In this way you can represent its involvement in the civil war/its tactical proficiency, its slow industrialization in favor of lucrative agrarianism (make the factory a manor or something, with food and gold bonuses instead), and the thriving cotton industry that was centrally reliant on trade with the industrial north and Europe.
It's a perfectly tidy and neat, and the design has lots of utility and historical background. However by ignoring slavery and secessionism, and failing to try in any way to represent it, you'd pass up a hugely important aspect of southern society and culture. During WWII Nazi Germany, and in world history in general, the Holocaust is one of the most significant things that has ever happened, not only despite its horror but because of its horror.

Either way, I think this is a better representation of Nazi Germany than before. It was a horrifying and evil place and that's well outlined here, as opposed to seeming a simple industrial powerhouse before.

 

[Cyphose]

I completely agree, I was just commenting on the fact that these things often need to be handled delicately. Things like slave labor, ritual sacrifice, and the Holocaust were undoubtedly defining traits of their respective Civilizations, but it also requires a bit of care with how you approach them. Like I said, making things that people of our modern world tend to agree are horrific into beneficial things can be a bit difficult to approach. Of course, however, avoiding them simply because they're touchy subjects is also doing them a disservice in terms of their historical importance.

With all that said, I quite like how Keniisu's design approached the problem (and it is better than his old design), though I find its focus on the mechanic in question rather forced. If I were to read his idea without any knowledge of the mechanic he was supposed to be going for, I would think the mechanic was based on starvation of Citizens. The only part related to expending things is Workers, and while it makes sense, it also seems rather tacked on compared to the rest. But hey, maybe that's just me.

 

[Keniisu]

I completely agree, I was just commenting on the fact that these things often need to be handled delicately. Things like slave labor, ritual sacrifice, and the Holocaust were undoubtedly defining traits of their respective Civilizations, but it also requires a bit of care with how you approach them. Like I said, making things that people of our modern world tend to agree are horrific into beneficial things can be a bit difficult to approach. Of course, however, avoiding them simply because they're touchy subjects is also doing them a disservice in terms of their historical importance.

With all that said, I quite like how Keniisu's design approached the problem (and it is better than his old design), though I find its focus on the mechanic in question rather forced. If I were to read his idea without any knowledge of the mechanic he was supposed to be going for, I would think the mechanic was based on starvation of Citizens. The only part related to expending things is Workers, and while it makes sense, it also seems rather tacked on compared to the rest. But hey, maybe that's just me.

To make it less-tacted on, I made it a boost to your Food when a Worker is expended so that there is a way to maintain starving citizens and make it work in collaboration to the other details.

 

[inthesomeday]

That's actually a very good way to tie it all in, I like that

 

[Natan35]

Sure it's sobering, but it's a lot better than ignoring one of the most primary historical aspects of a civilization, one of the things said civ was even most well known for.
Imagine making a confederate states civ with a rifleman replacement, a factory replacement, and a UA about trade routes. In this way you can represent its involvement in the civil war/its tactical proficiency, its slow industrialization in favor of lucrative agrarianism (make the factory a manor or something, with food and gold bonuses instead), and the thriving cotton industry that was centrally reliant on trade with the industrial north and Europe.
It's a perfectly tidy and neat, and the design has lots of utility and historical background. However by ignoring slavery and secessionism, and failing to try in any way to represent it, you'd pass up a hugely important aspect of southern society and culture. During WWII Nazi Germany, and in world history in general, the Holocaust is one of the most significant things that has ever happened, not only despite its horror but because of its horror.

Either way, I think this is a better representation of Nazi Germany than before. It was a horrifying and evil place and that's well outlined here, as opposed to seeming a simple industrial powerhouse before.

Spoiler :

Does horror mark historical significance for you? I mean, I'm not in favour of whitewashing history, but I think that an event like the holocaust can only be well represented on its own (not even mentioning the fact that the Nazis didn't starve citizens in cities, and that most killings didn't actually happen in Germany itself). More importantly, the Holocaust wasnt part of the Nazi war effort, it was a part of their ideology. The Nazi "war machine" could've been greatly aided by sparing Jewish scientists (like that Albert guy) rather than killing for whatever reason.

The Holocaust was counter productive. Period. assuming that killing people (many of them quite smart, some actually supported the Nazi party) helps any sort of production in whatever way is quite... Curious at best, or offensive at worst. If you wanna represent it, that can only be properly done by giving it more of an ideological rule to represent its purpose, perhaps pairing it with the whole Lebensraum thing.

(On other note, I don't really thing that sacrifice was one of the things Nazis believed in...)

 

[Sgtwolf00]

Man this has been a deep and controversial conversation this past page, I like it! We should do more of it, and I'm going to add to it by taking on inthesomeday's suggestion and adding too this challenge; the Soviet Union! This particular Soviet Union is 1941-43 based and focuses on it's quick rush to stop the advancing Germans.

But enough talking, I know hereby present the the glorious Union under our Savior and Supreme Leader; Joseph Stalin! Criticism surprisingly welcomed!

The Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin

UA: For the Motherland!
Low-health units can sacrifice themselves to deal damage to enemies and to heal friendlies and give them a combat boost, +15% production towards armored units during wartime. Enemies suffer attrition in your territory, doubled if on snow or tundra tiles.

UU: Strelki (Infantry replacement)
Weaker then the replaced Infantry, but gains combat strength when adjacent to other Strelki and is cheaper to produce.

UU: T-34 ('Tank' replacement)
Russian replacement for the tank, has +6 movement, a lower production cost and can be 'entrenched'. Which makes the unit unable to move, but has a much higher combat strength and can attack twice. (also gets accompanying graphics)

 

[Sgtwolf00]

So it's been a roughly week since this challenge has started and there is no other sign of activity other than me. So vote time?

 

[inthesomeday]

I'll vote Cyphose's Japan

 

[Keniisu]

Here's a round-up.
• Keniisu's Nazi Germany (Hitler)
• Sgtwolf's Soviet Union (Joseph Stalin)
• Cyphose's Japanese Empire (Oda Nobunga)
• Natan35's Japan (Hideki Tojo)
• Inthesomeday's Sparta (Leonidas)

My votes for Cyphose's Japan. Really unique design man!

 

[Cyphose]

My vote is for Keniisu's Germany (the reworked one).

 

[Sgtwolf00]

I'm going with Cyphose for this one.

 

[Natan35]

Cyphose's Japan for me too. Nice design, and of course you can't say no to the icons.

 

[Skelton Keng]

One more for Cyphose

 

[Sgtwolf00]

So just a recount we have 5 votes for Chyphose and 1 vote for Keniisu. I don't think we've had such a steamroll like this before.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

I vote sparta, Cyphose's is reeally nice I just think the effects of DBD are way too long to make for a really good UA for a civ that actually gets made, I think players would be a little confused.

 

[Troller0001]

I vote for Cyphose's Japan! I really like how the UA makes you focus on the kamikaze-aspect

 

[JFD]

Here's my attempt:

I do really like the first part (automatic defensive buildings) to this Clemenceau design. I hope you do not mind if I... extract it...

 

[senshidenshi]

I do really like the first part (automatic defensive buildings) to this Clemenceau design. I hope you do not mind if I... extract it...

Aww, but I was gonna use a civ based on the concept of free defensive buildings...

Oh well, at least it's Clemenceau
Not that it's that big of a deal either, I just couldn't think of another faith/defensive UA.