[BTS] CIV IV - Cuirassier Rush EXPLAINED

Henrik75

deity
Joined
Oct 4, 2020
Messages
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Australia
Hi all, I've seen so many people ask many questions and fail to get the hang of this meta strategy to beat high difficulty levels in Civ 4 BTS. So I've taken it upon myself to spend the last few days working to edit a compact, in depth guide explaining the cuirassier strategy and the related aspects to it. This should be beneficial for any learning player from noble to immortal, or deity players who might be missing some optimization, that said, I don't play anywhere near perfect myself, but I would like to believe I have a good grasp on using this rush and wanted to share.


Henrik
 
Thats super good!

There are plenty of guides and mentions of the nuances of the cuirstomp on these forums, but not everyone likes reading long threads.
A quick video that covers the topic like that is awesome.
I think you covered all of the important aspects, and did not wander too deep into the fine nuances and details that risk making the overall picture too opaque.
 
I think there are 2 things of significant importance:

1. The path to Military Tradition/Gunpowder: On Immortal and Deity, we can't expect ourselves to just completely self tech our way into these techs at the correct time, which means skillful tech trading with AI. This is a lot harder than it sounds, and I think, a skill that is very underappreciated. This requires some extensive study of the tech tree and how AI generally behaves when it comes to what techs they tend to prioritize, and other factors.

2. The unit preparation: Another underappreciated part of a very important step. Getting to the necessary techs is half the battle. This also requires some careful planning as well. Slavery isn't just about whipping away population, because one would need to make sure that cities can grow back to a point were they can be whipped again, as well as to maintain the commerce necessary (which means careless whipping down of cities would wreck havoc on economy which is vital during war), all the while making sure that we maintain constant stream of reinforcements.

@Henrik75 makes it look all so easy, but based on personal experience, this requires a lot of practice. Not something that can just be all taken in and applied simply by just watching the video.

I personally think that the best way, once the basic fundamentals of the game is obtained, is to just straight away attempt games on Immortal. Die by the barbarians, by the AI, crash the economy, fail an invasion, or any other horrible things may come to pass, and it may be frustrating to lose games, but for the purpose of learning, I think losing multiple games on Immortal is lot more valuable than winning at Monarch or Emperor.
 
I personally think that the best way, once the basic fundamentals of the game is obtained, is to just straight away attempt games on Immortal. Die by the barbarians, by the AI, crash the economy, fail an invasion, or any other horrible things may come to pass, and it may be frustrating to lose games, but for the purpose of learning, I think losing multiple games on Immortal is lot more valuable than winning at Monarch or Emperor.
So much this :love:
 
is there a general city count you should be going for? Feel like I don't have the pop to whip with just 8 cities but I can't get the required tech in time if I expand to 10 or more
 
5-6 cities is usually enough. I think you need a bigger initial stack at a better date to generate more momentum, bulbing and merchants help a lot with that. Pick your fights carefully, skip too well defended cities and hit another or bait the stack out so you don't take heavy losses.
 
I think there are 2 things of significant importance:

1. The path to Military Tradition/Gunpowder: On Immortal and Deity, we can't expect ourselves to just completely self tech our way into these techs at the correct time, which means skillful tech trading with AI. This is a lot harder than it sounds, and I think, a skill that is very underappreciated. This requires some extensive study of the tech tree and how AI generally behaves when it comes to what techs they tend to prioritize, and other factors.

2. The unit preparation: Another underappreciated part of a very important step. Getting to the necessary techs is half the battle. This also requires some careful planning as well. Slavery isn't just about whipping away population, because one would need to make sure that cities can grow back to a point were they can be whipped again, as well as to maintain the commerce necessary (which means careless whipping down of cities would wreck havoc on economy which is vital during war), all the while making sure that we maintain constant stream of reinforcements.

I think I mention the first point in great detail and touch on the second one but agreed, city management, whipping and growing cottages is extremely important. Probably something I'll make a future video on if this one is a success.
 
I doubt it that you can do it properly if you have only 4 cities. Probably better off trying some construction or engineering breakout if you are stuck at that.
But 5-7 cities is perfecly fine.
Cuir-rushes is generally not that hammer intensive at all.
I mean, 20 HAs are only 1000 hammers and you have a long time getting them whipped.
Crux is to balance that with enough Merchants and profitable trade missions.

Unit upgrading is generally very bad, it's super expensive.
Rushbuying with universial suffrage lategame is often shunned upon and rightly so, since you pay 3 gold for each hammer.
When you upgrade, you pay slightly more. You pay 3 gold per hammer, plus a starting fee of 20g, for a HA -> Cuir, you buy 50 hammers for 170g which is 3.4 gold per hammer.
Thats ridiculously expensive.
So why do we do it....?
It's because the great people mechanic is so incredibly powerful, getting out a few merchants and doing 2000-3000 gold trademissions is sort of equivalent with getting gold for free.

Most cuirstomps I do have a balance between HAs and upgrading on the one hand, and whipping cuirs straight on the other hand.
It's always good to have a healthy number of HAs stockpiled prior to the pivotpoint where you reach the key techs gunpowder+MT. Even if your setup is more favourable to whipping straight, and getting merchants or gold by other means is hard.
Because thats the only way to let commerce manifest on the battlefield in the moment.

Only alternative is to continue teching and reach the next key military tech, but that takes ages.
An upgrade, no matter how inefficient the use of the commerce, gets you a boost on the battlefield in the moment where it counts.
 
@krikav

I think the key phrase here is "moment when it counts." Timing is so important, and learning it takes practice.

Elizabeth of Spain would be even more fun. ^_^
 
I do think it's important to keep pointing out that unit upgrades are expensive and in most circumstance bad.
It's easy to get the concepts mixed up since they are entangled in the cuirstomp.
Cuirstomp is super powerful and it does almost always involve alot of unit upgrading. It's very easy to come to the conclusion that unit upgrades are good, when they are clearly not by themselves.
 
I do think it's important to keep pointing out that unit upgrades are expensive and in most circumstance bad.
It's easy to get the concepts mixed up since they are entangled in the cuirstomp.
Cuirstomp is super powerful and it does almost always involve alot of unit upgrading. It's very easy to come to the conclusion that unit upgrades are good, when they are clearly not by themselves.

In terms of costs, yeah of course, they are expensive. In terms of hording mass number of Cuirassiers as early as possible, I think it is a sound strategy combined with what you describe as "incredibly powerful" Great Merchant trade missions.

Liz is a special case since she is both Financial AND Philosophical, so there is no other candidate better suited for this strategy.

Now things get more interesting on non-Pangaea maps.....
 
In terms of costs, yeah of course, they are expensive. In terms of hording mass number of Cuirassiers as early as possible, I think it is a sound strategy combined with what you describe as "incredibly powerful" Great Merchant trade missions.

Liz is a special case since she is both Financial AND Philosophical, so there is no other candidate better suited for this strategy.

Now things get more interesting on non-Pangaea maps.....
Expansive and Imperialistic can be just as good or even better than FIN/Phi if you are crammed and need to quickly grab land.
But yes, assuming you don't have trouble getting to 6ish cities, Liz has the best traits for cuirs stomp.
 
Great video! Don't add anything. Keep it as short as possible. I think even the usage details starting 7:48 can be skipped. The viewer knows Civ4 combat basics. Instead, add a part in the beginning explain when you should pursue this strategy, and when you should not. For example, great on pangaea, not so great in isolation, good for quick and normal speed, less important for epic and marathon. This also relates to my disagreement: I don't think curaissers are the best strategy below immortal. Emperor and below, we are better off attacking earlier and with earlier units.

Once again, great job!
 
On larger maps with bigger AI empires you often need more cuirs. Even with a 100 cuirs on Deity Earth 18 map I felt like I didn't have enough in early turns of war. Russia had 50-60 roaming units.

Use of great general is important. Either for free upgrade or getting a decent size of units to level 3-4. Or settling them with a city pumping out 10xp units. Super medics!!!

Same for civics. Vassalage, Theocracy and police state can be good. They work well togather.

I find if you go phants then you could well have 15-20+ cities but a later cuirs date. Albeit 1-2 AI already wiped out.

Bribing AI. If you are worried about neighbours bribing them into your war works well. If you are attacking AI already at war you can then attack them freely whilst their stack is in an AI border somewhere.

Whipping. Is also key or you will never get a big army.

Economy wise on higher levels realising on immortal-deity unit costs can often slow down your tech rate severely.

Only other thought is war economy. If you are all in with cuirs losing 60-100+ gold a turn is not unusual. Learning to use wealth in cities if you think you are likely to run out of gold.That and realising capture gold often pays for huge debts.
 
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