Civ of the Week: Aztecs

[Eliminator_Sr]

Even when isolated the Aztecs are still pretty formidable. I played to turn 50 on Inland Sea without finding anyone in the first 30 turns. I wasn't really able to secure many eurekas either and hard researched archery, state workforce, and foreign trade. I found two city states early and captured 6 builders by turn 50 then found the Cree to the North. Forces are en route and it will be very easy pickings with archers and Eagles and three luxes hooked up. I probably won't play this out but I can already tell it's going to be an easy snowball win on emperor. The next phase would be to build pyramids while warring with the Cree which will lead to a whole new wave of builders. The great thing about the Aztecs is you don't even have to worry about pre-placing districts since it's always five charges to rush them to completion. Inland Sea tends to give a more spaced out starting situation and I think the Aztecs do much better on normal continents map. I wanted to point out that even somewhat isolated starts are usually not a problem and that it's still not too difficult to get plenty of builders.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Well, I cranked out a win (essentially). I normally play King with barbarians on, so with barbarians off it was a little more challenge for me, but in the end it wasn't enough. The AI is toast. And I drank 6 beers, which is a lot for me. The AI should be ashamed of himself or itself. (I'm assuming the AI is genderless). The screen starts to get a little blurry after that many beers, I was at a disadvantage.

I'll finish this game in the near future, but the game is won already.

Final conclusion is the Aztecs are a good civ, but I feel they don't really excel in any one area. They are a jack of all trades civ. India was a bit too tough for me so I put them off for later and conquered Indonesia, Australia, and finally Brazil after finishing 6 beers (it's my Friday). Rio De Janeiro actually was very tough for me, and 2 crossbowmen took out several of my troops, but I was careless and trying to go too fast. Had to peace out and regroup. Brazil put up a fight, but in the end they went down like the rest of them. See the mini map.

I'm not sure what's on the other continent(s), but we'll see. Norway is making a big push for religious victory, but I doubt they will get it with so many civs in the game. I'm not sure where they are. Have to watch for cultural victory, but otherwise this game is won.

I feel like I still didn't get the full power out of the Aztecs, but as mentioned above, production wasn't very high on this map. I didn't want to chop my flatland forests as that was all the production I had other than 2 quarries. Magnus got in some good work in all the Indonesian jungles and hill forests too the West.

I didn't really intend on going full on warfare. But loyalty issues are an issue. I will have to deal with Persia because I'm in a dark age and they are in a normal age, and they are putting pressure on the last Brazilian city I took. I may as well conquer the rest of my continent. After that I could go space victory which I will probably do since I recently did a conquest victory with France, and I'm not in the mood to do it again. I may get culture before that though since all victories are enabled.

India is still there in the South, it's hard to tell since they share colors with me. I may spare them, not sure. We'll see how it goes.

Well you certainly looked better than what I was doing at that point. Was too busy getting ready for something

Spoiler :

Anyhow, I think I'll stop here. Lost Ruhr by 1 turn after using a GE and that sorta ruined my mood. Game's over anyways but I don't want to deal with it. Though at least I collected emergency cash.. I have India trapped to 2 cities but he's mostly there for tourism. Too bad Japan just died off.



Oh, looks like I accidentally built the useless Foreign Ministry again. Oh well.

Also...

 

[BarbarianHunter]

Yeah Aztecs just aren't tough enough to tangle with Chandra India, at least not with me at the helm with only 2 luxuries at the time (I now have 4). He's a toughie. I ended up losing Patna due to loyalty. Luckily Indonesia was easy pickins. This game is yet salvageable.

Loyalty is still a problem as I struggled with an Indonesian city until they were defeated.

Oh and I was not able to capture a builder from a free city warrior.(just tried with that really wounded eagle warrior on the left side of this image)

I have never played other people's saves before. Interesting how different maps can look from one scenario to the next. Anyway, I started a game with the save you shared and used the tactics I suggested earlier in the thread to the letter. An eagle warrior, then 2 archers, then a settler. Leave it to the crazy AI to pop out a settler (circle) on its own that my eagle warrior is about to appropriate without contest. I think it is going to be a good game ;-). I'm starting with Patna to the East. Farther distance to travel to begin but I think the terrain is better suited and the loyalty seems more agreeable.............

UPDATE: This game got ugly, fast (2nd save attached).

 

[acluewithout]

One thing I recently learned about the Aztecs is that their luxury combat bonus applies to religious combat too making them a great choice for RV as well. I usually go for domination with the Aztecs so I might explore a different route. I might try an inland sea map and post some screenshots if I have time to play this week.

I was going to post about this dynamic when we got to Sythia, but I’ll say something about it now given that it’s come up.

Yes, Aztec are one of those Civs who ostensibly have military combat bonuses but which carry over to religious units. This makes for a very strong synergy because, in addition to being just better at theological combat (which is itself a great way to spread religion):

(1) Aztecs are better at getting a religion both because their unique Civ and Leader abilities let them get more builders and funnel them to building Holy Sites, and because a strong route to getting a Great Prophet is to capture Religious City States and other Civ’s cities with Holy Sites and then run Holy Site projects in those cities (Aztecs are good at capturing cities, obvs), and

(2) because Aztec are better at war, they always have the option of declaring war and destroying Religious Units with their Military Units.

 

[Disgustipated]

My main issue with the builder charge feature is I like to use builders for other things, like building improvements. I did speed along my first two campus districts with all those India captures to get caught up on tech. But I kind of forgot about using charges after that. I get on a building spree, and I'm single minded in that approach.

My question is if you aren't capturing builders, and you are instead building them. Is it more cost effective hammer wise to use builder charges to speed along a district? I'm speaking in raw hammer analysis, not opportunity costs or anything of that nature. I did manage to build Pyramids in my game, and I'm often running serfdom, so that will skew the numbers in favor of using charges.

Also tried for Petra in that desert, but Petra is often a trap. Perhaps if I had beelined Mathematics, but getting crosswbows was more important. So I lost out on Petra. I also tried for the Oracle which I normally don't try to build because I lose, and I lost this time too. I captured Artemis and the military slot wonder, and I think I should be able to build Potala Palace and Forbidden city in time.

 

[agonistes]

I've been playing Aztecs more lately. On giant earth.

I usually build a scout just to block central America from southy civs, and then go heavy eagles.

They really are a nicely designed civ - everything syncs, and they are great for any vc.

Don't underestimate the amenity distribution buff either.

The ub is the only meh point. But with multiple top 5 uniques, so what.

Maybe they should have given one of the uniques to a weaker civ, then buffed the ub a touch. +2 faith, +2 ggp. But I enjoy them as is.

 

[Archon_Wing]

My main issue with the builder charge feature is I like to use builders for other things, like building improvements. I did speed along my first two campus districts with all those India captures to get caught up on tech. But I kind of forgot about using charges after that. I get on a building spree, and I'm single minded in that approach.

The thing though, is that most improvements aren't that useful. None give that much science or gold-- plantations and fishing nets are laughable-- and as districts get more expensive, the value of districts increases while improvements really do not. Well, mines get better as you discover apprenticeship and industrialization though.

 

[liv]

My main issue with the builder charge feature is I like to use builders for other things

Playing an Aztec game and I find myself using workers to chop. Chopping overrides everything. And after they changed how districts interact with city states the Aztec building charges is less valuable. Chopping with Magnus (I got the Forge) however overpowers everything.

Capturing workers is great but I find that even on immortal after the first wave AI does not build much for units. So you are left with banging into cities. The extra strength from luxuries (I was up to ten while still using warriors) combined with oligarchy and the oligarchy card is pretty powerful.

Only thing that can keep you back is the map since warriors can be slow. I play continents and was lucky enough to have several civs starting there and close enough so that I could get to them quickly.

 

[Forster]

I think you are wasting time building anything but eagle warriors at start. I usually build a builder to get the benefit of production or a luxury and a slinger to protect my first city. After that, it is all eagle warriors. I start hunting neighbors as soon as i have 3 built, the start warrior is off exploring. While the 3 are attacking I keep building and sending warriors to the army. A force of 6 warriors is near unstoppable for a good deal of the early game. Having enough will allow you capture several cities, one after the other which keeps loyalty under control. After building at least 6 warriors I will start building settlers and slingers to escort them, but your fastest growth should be from captured cities.

 

[liv]

Not sure I would build a slinger. Later maybe want some archers. A builder is important you need to get to agoge ASAP so three improvements are essential and obviously you have to develop your luxuries. I build on top of the first one for sure. I do build settlers to get more luxuries if that is available on the map. Military strength is the main focus of the the Aztecs, I think.

And the most important district may be the government plaza.

 

[Sylfea]

Ok, I'm in the Classical Age of a bittersweet Aztec game - I got a pretty isolated peninsula start, with my only easily accessible opponent being Macedonia - I did meet Carthage early, but liked the extra production in my capital for my early EW spam so opted not to war with them. However, I got a relic in like turn 4 from a hut which gave me the EG pantheon which I almost never get on Emperor, so I'm playing the damn map now regardless. As I type this, my army is sailing across the channel to go take out Seondeok - she has longswordsman already so will see how that goes.

Here's my question though - by a happy coincidence I got early Suzerain from Buenos Aires. Does the improved bonus resources being treated like luxuries now count towards the Aztec combat bonus? I can't seem to find the answer ingame. Also, I've always assumed that luxuries received through trading don't count for the combat bonus, can someone confirm for me if that is correct please?

 

[Tabarnak]

I love the Aztecs. Don't be shy to crank up some Eagle warriors right of the bat. An early free cs or civ city(ies) is a great boost to ur empire. And it's not even counting the free workers among the way if you manage to kill some guys too.

Also, take account that the worker and settler cost dont raise if u capture free ones too!

 

[Archon_Wing]

Well ok, I lied. Finished the game off but since it was going slow anyways, I managed to get the penguins! I've never built that wonder, but this is a good show of the Aztec's strengths-- other civ's won't be able to do it without Reyna. since there were just enough chops to build the wonder itself. I didn't even have that ability and she was off doing something else more important.

Also apparently I never switched to Democracy so it took forever for the museum to get built.



And a Water Park.


Game still ended before I could build Maracana; that wonder seems to always have the tendency of being almost done before I win, making it truly useless.

And yea, it was a culture victory, but I built a spaceport and launched a satellite because I was bored.

 

[The Ferret]

I saw in the other thread that people talked about playing a game while discussing. Maybe a starts on different difficulty levels could be posted?

Maybe we could try different victory conditions with them and see what happens

Like the idea of this. Looking forward to starting a new game and seeing how different people approach similar games. May not be able to start this week due to lack of free time, although will definitely try to join in soon!

 

[liv]

Here's my question though - by a happy coincidence I got early Suzerain from Buenos Aires. Does the improved bonus resources being treated like luxuries now count towards the Aztec combat bonus? I can't seem to find the answer ingame. Also, I've always assumed that luxuries received through trading don't count for the combat bonus, can someone confirm for me if that is correct please?

The only luxuries that count are the ones on your land that you develop. When you click to attack you can see how much combat bonus you get from luxuries. So nothing from trades or city states etc,

When you try to attack you can tell how much your bonus is. Here toward the end of the game I have 15 luxuries developed

 

[Sylfea]

The only luxuries that count are the ones on your land that you develop. When you click to attack you can see how much combat bonus you get from luxuries. So nothing from trades or city states etc,

When you try to attack you can tell how much your bonus is. Here toward the end of the game I have 15 luxuries developed

Thanks, the picture helped a lot!

 

[Disgustipated]

Finished my game off. My empire was so large, it didn't take too long. I only took 2 more Persian cities since last night, I was getting tired of combat, and went peaceful the rest of the way. Cultural victory on turn 426 (epic speed) and a 2nd place finish just under Augustus. I think my combat bonus was only +10 in the end, it seems like I had more than 10 luxuries, but maybe not. And as mentioned above, "special" luxuries don't seem to count. As I had toys and I think jeans as well, but I don't think I got a bonus to combat from those. I was at war with China for the last 1/3 of the game, but I wasn't actually fighting him, I just stayed that way to please Gorgo.

I did a move that was wicked this game. Rome settles just under my capital because I never bothered to settle there, I couldn't flip the city since I was cultural ally, but next time around I switch it to religious ally and it flips in 4 turns. I screwed over my ally good haha.

Amazingly I managed to get 3 allies. Strange since I haven't been able to do it on my Rome game where I had 0 warmongering score and only took 4 cities (the 5th I liberated). But I had the advantage they were on a different continent and only Rome saw me took 2 cities, Greece and Korea didn't see me conquer any.

Perhaps I underestimate that early power. I still wouldn't rank them higher than Rome or Macedon, I'll give them an A- score. Which is lower first tier. Their abilities mesh well with my play style, and it's not difficult to take advantage of their unique abilities. Unlike some civs *cough* Georgia. *cough*. I look forward to the threads on the other civs. I voted Egypt because they are a civ I don't do that well on, and I would like to hear how other people play them.

My screenshot will be the turn of cultural victory. I built a spaceport, but since I didn't build Royal society no way was that going to finish before cultural victory. I enlarged the mini map to make it easier to see. I had 6 national parks in this map. Most I ever had. My mini map of my empire actually kind of looks like the mainland United States. huh. I'll include my save, it isn't perfect, I got lazy in the end.

I think you are wasting time building anything but eagle warriors at start. I usually build a builder to get the benefit of production or a luxury and a slinger to protect my first city. After that, it is all eagle warriors. I start hunting neighbors as soon as i have 3 built, the start warrior is off exploring. While the 3 are attacking I keep building and sending warriors to the army. A force of 6 warriors is near unstoppable for a good deal of the early game. Having enough will allow you capture several cities, one after the other which keeps loyalty under control. After building at least 6 warriors I will start building settlers and slingers to escort them, but your fastest growth should be from captured cities.

Pretty much what I did. I was thinking I shouldn't have bothered with the slinger, but the archers I still did need to help deal with some units. I generally ran my attacking group with 2 archers (later crossbowmen).Varu were the only thing I had trouble with. I just skipped them and went after easier targets. I never did take out India, but I could have later in the game.

 

[Mr. Shadows]

I've been messing around with the Aztecs, and have one game at Immortal that I've played to the point where I know I have it sewn up even though I'm still many turns from the victory screen. That doesn't seem too important though, since the Aztecs' bonuses come early. Eagle Warriors deliver a lot more at higher levels. I spawned next to the Zulu, who obliging attacked me and provided all the builders I needed for the first stages of the game. That's important not only because it allowed me to build other things, but because the cost of builders scales and this keeps them cheap. Since you can build districts with builder charges you can save your chops for other things. All that added up to a huge early hammer bonus. Of course, my starting location meant that I had a handy Civ to beat up on. Starting with an Eagle Warrior gives you an immediate era boost, which (I think) means that you can't get a Classical Dark Age and thus a subsequent Heroic Age. I'd be very interested to hear ideas on how to manage that. Getting a Golden Classical Age seems to be pretty difficult unless I'm missing something. The Tlachtli isn't their strongest bonus, but they are encouraged to have a wide empire so this building isn't a complete throw away. I like boosting amenities for the happiness bonus. I'm going to keep tinkering with them but it's clear that they are one of the very strongest Civs.

 

[The Ferret]

Spoiler :

Tips on starting location or does it not really matter?

Spoiler :

 

[eleven11]

IMO I'd settle the silk and sell it to the first AI you meet. Settling there gives you a 3 production tile with improvement, crabs are closer to help fund your war machine, adjacency boost for a harbor, and the spices are still in the 3rd ring. The only issue is food... you'll probably have to buy the grassland and horse tiles. Or buy tiles to the west and get the spices