[R&F] Civ of the Week: Germany

[Sostratus]

All of my Scotland games have been like this. I remember out performing Korea both times I played them last Feb/March. And this time out performing Germany in production. I even had one less or possibly two less industrial zones. Most only had workshops same as my Germany game.

Scotland probably has a hills start bias, although with 15 cities that should even out past the early game. It could well be your way of playing scotland ends up being a better playstyle than how you play germany. Hopefully some of this thread and my post kind of show why scotland's production bonus in itself isn't exceedingly amazing. (Not that it's bad!) Without a clear reason why they should have much higher base production before modifiers, though, its almost decidedly factors outside the actual civ abilities (and more start bias/playstyle/luck/etc.)

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm happy to accomplish getting 12 adjacency with my Hansa's. I couldn't manage 5 commercial hubs like post #22 above. I had 4 commercial hubs, one other Hansa, and one government district for 12 (with no policy cards boosting this). It was kind of fun going for this, but often I don't like to interrupt the pacing of the game to plan this stuff out. Had to settle one city on horses which I don't like, but I was in too much of a rush to land grab all available space (and the natural wonder in the South) before someone else got to it, that's more important to me.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

My first 5 adjacency campus as well. I've never been this lucky to get one surrounded by 5 mountains before. And the Holy site is surrounded by 4 mountains. Unfortunately didn't get the Great Scientist who gives science per adjacent mountain tile.

Spoiler :

My start: I did move my settler one tile for my capital city

Spoiler :

This screenshot isn't from my final victory save. I stopped at turn 382 to compare production to my Scotland game. Scotland I can win by turn 382, but not Germany, my science was lagging behind, but I didn't build that many campus districts either. I wanted to compare production this game to my Scotland game. My conclusion was when accounting for the wonders I built, Scotland can still beat Germany in production and beat Korea in science.

Spoiler :

My save game I forgot to put in 5 year plan, my goof, so some of these numbers are actually from turn 383. 5 year plan is so much better than Colonial taxes for production, but ideally I'd like to run both. All three games were running Communism.

So I built Amundsen-Scott Research Station and Casa De Contratación and I was running 5 year plan (same as above)
1457 total production (Stirling was over 185 production- wow, this city was also affected by Casa and Amundsen)
16 cities
91.06 per city

With both 5 year plan and Colonial Taxes it works out to:
1508.3 (Stirling at 196.6 wow- and this Hansa doesn't have much adjacency. If I had know this city would be that good, I would have tried to get 4 cities in a square- though I didn't have much room with the Dutch beside me)
16 cities
94.27 per city

With Colonial Taxes but without 5 year plan
1371.2 total production
16 cities
85.7
91.06 per city

Without Colonial taxes and without 5 year plan it works out to
1344.5
16 cities
84.03 per city

Unfortunately my Scotland game and current Germany game aren't balanced because I built Amundsen-Scott Research Station and Casa De Contratación. I'm not exactly sure how the game adds these numbers (it says it adds a percentage), I'll try to adjust, but very possible I'm doing the math wrong. These are with same settings as the Scotland game 5 year plan, no Colonial Taxes, communism government and e-commerce.
Amundsen gives +10% production, I believe the city that built it did get the bonus which would be +20% for that city. Casa De Contratación gives +15% to city on non home continent with governor. I screwed up this one, I forgot you had to have a governor. I did not optimize this correctly, cont is other continent and gov means there's a governor there. Parenthesis values are adjusted for the 10% (or in some cases 10% and 15%)
Aachen 95.4 (86.73)
Heidelberg 66.7 (60.64)
Ulm 77 (70)
Frankfurt 86.5 builder of Amundsen and did have 5 snow tiles (72.08)
Trier 136.7 (124.27)
Berlin 66.7 Cont (60.64)
Erfurt 48.8 Cont (44.36)
Madgeburg 105.2 Cont/gov (83.16)
Hamburg 102.6 Cont/gov (81.11)
Nagoya 65.5 (59.55)
Stirling 185.4 Cont/gov (146.56)
Aberdeen 119.3 (108.45)
Dortmund 62.4 Cont (56.73)
Lubeck 68.9 Cont (62.64)
Bremen 102.1 (92.82)
Cologne 67.8 Cont (61.64)
16 cities
1271.38 total production
79.46 per city (Scotland was 84.09/85.42 with ecommerce - see post #37 and my post in Scotland Civ of the Week). Building Amundsen-Scott Research Station and Casa De Contratación is what put me over. I built neither wonder in my Scotland game. Had to re-run Scotland numbers since I wasn't running Ecommerce in post #37, with ecommerce the numbers are: 1281.3/15=85.42, even higher than my German cities could do).

Conclusion: Scotland can still achieve higher production than Germany AND better science than Korea. I wasn't perfect (in either game), I could have tried to fit in 4 cities where Stirling was since it turned out to be such an awesome city. Though Ruhr valley is one reason production is so high, this may not have been my most optimum Ruhr Valley location, but many of my cities in the West lacked rivers. And my Scotland game really didn't have that many hills, both games had desert.

Edit: one final thing I forgot to account for is industrial city-states. I am checking now. Also my 2nd Germany game was on a large map, but I don't think that affects much. I just wanted room to place my cities. Okay luckily I had 6+ envoys with the same number of industrial city states, 2 a piece. Problem is Scotland was Suzerain of Auckland. Hmmm.
1281.3-42 (total water squares 21*2 benefiting from Auckland)=1239.3/15=82.62. Still higher than Germany, but not by a whole lot.



I'll include my saves if anyone want to play around with it. I plan on doing some nuke stuff after this, so that's why all the other victories are disabled.

 

[Archon_Wing]

With the knowledge that commercial hubs don't need to be on rivers (or at least better for more production), I figured I must make the best Hansa.... (Emperor/rest standard)

Well, maybe not the best map for this... We do get Goddess of the Harvest because I get to Jerusalem first. Saladin wasn't happy about that.

Spoiler :

Some nice campus spots, I then use whatever few chops I had to build mids, and also stole a builder from Arabia.

A long while later (I didn't save), I manage to get in place a good Hansa, but it's not good enough yet. I can settle another city to bring another commercial hub next to it.

China attacks, and he gets beat up by muskets, but that's not important. My weak city manages some trade routes and yet another hansa to get the hub in for a total of +24. We also have the Great Library and Apanada which means things are good.

Also a natural wonder city that I sorta forgot about.

Spoiler :

Overall the stats are not too impressive, but on the other hand a lot of this land was so poor and narrow mountain passes make for bad conquest wars. The Hansas did make things much less painless than it could have been.