[R&F] Civ of the Week: Indonesia

Who should be next weeks Civ? (Renaissance)


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acluewithout

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  • Leader: Gitarja.
  • Leader Ability: Exalted Goddess of the Three Worlds. Can purchase Naval Units with Faith. Religious Units receive no movement penalties embarking or disembarking. City Centres adjacent to Coast or Lake receive +2 Faith.

  • Civ Ability: Great Nusantara. Coasts and Lakes provide +0.5 Adjacency for Holy Sites, Industrial Zones and Theatre Squares. Entertainment Complexes adjacent to a Coast or Lake provide +1 Amenities.

  • Unique Unit (Civ): Jong. Unique Naval Ranged Unit which replaces the Frigate (unlocks at Mercenaries in the Civics Tree). Melee Strength 45, Ranged Strength 55, Attack Range 2, Movement 5 (vs 4 for Frigate), Production Cost 300 (vs 280 for Frigate), Maintenance 5. Receives +5 Combat Strength when in formation, and shares movement with all units in formation. Upgrades to Battleship.

  • Unique Infrastructure: Kampung. Unique Improvement (requires one Builder Charge). Unlocks at Shipbuilding, and must be built on a Coast or Lake tile adjacent to a Sea Resource. Cannot be built on Reefs. +1 Production, +1 Housing, +1 Food for each adjacent Fishing Boat, +1 Housing (with Mass Production), +1 Production (Civil Engineering), +1 Tourism for every bonus Food (with Flight).
  • Leader Agenda: Archipelagic State. Likes Civs that avoid cities on small land masses, and dislikes Civs who have numerous cities on Islands.
  • Suggested Reading List: None. But I may add links to some threads later.
Notes:
 
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Fair warning, this civ really should be played on water maps. I just played a game with her on continents and I was sorely disappointed with her performance. I did make some mistakes, but it still was disappointing doing so poorly, and losing out on nearly every wonder I attempted. Like Norway, she's extremely weak on land maps. I started a new game on archipelago with high sea levels and the difference is like night and day. I know that sounds obvious, but I still thought she would do okay as long as she had sea tiles. But getting bogged down in land wars and building land units slowed me up. More on this later.

Goddess of the harvest? I always choose Earth Goddess. I suppose harvest may be better, but earth goddess require less micromanagement and I don't like harvesting all my resources. I would say you should probably choose one of these two pantheons as Indonesia.

I never noticed the tourism bonus with the kampungs, does that make them a good cultural victory civ? I went religious victory in my first game and I was very disappointed as I mentioned.
 
Playing as Indonesia, I like to pick the Earth Goddess pantheon, then try to get a Golden Age and pick Monumentality. You'd get much value out of it.
 
Goddess of the harvest? I always choose Earth Goddess. I suppose harvest may be better, but earth goddess require less micromanagement and I don't like harvesting all my resources. I would say you should probably choose one of these two pantheons as Indonesia.

I’ve tweaked the original text a little, but didn’t explain myself well. Point is (1) Gidget will likely get first pick of the pantheons because of Leader Ability and start bias will give her faith from turn 1, (2) she can therefore usually get Goddess of the Harvest or (as you point out) Earth Goddess (the later probably being better most of the time, given she’ll have heaps of appeal with Coastal cities), (3) this lets her them get lots of faith, which she can use to spam Navy, (4) profit.
 
I really like Indonesia but as Disgustipated said they are map-dependent.
I often go for God of the Sea. Indonesia will get less out of Goddess of the Harvest since they'll have a lot more water tiles than usual and they won't want to harvest sea resources because of the bonuses to kampungs.
Earth Goddess is probably best since coasts add to appeal but even with Indonesia I'm often beaten to it.
 
Indonesia is fantastic for religious victory on island/archipelago maps. You don't really use the naval faith bonus obviously, but their quick embarkment + missionary Zeal will allow you to spread your Missionaries and apostles all over the map so much quicker than anyone else. First choice of a pantheon also helps too.
 
As I mentioned my first game I struggled. It seemed unfair to roll an island plates or Archipelago map with them, but you kind of have to. I made the best of the continents map. I shouldn't have attacked Egypt maybe, but then I wouldn't have had enough room to expand. But I ended up with so many landlocked cities. Then Arabia kept harassing me. It's not productive to get tangled up in land wars. I chose the wrong holy building (the fire temple one), but there wasn't much left, and I figured I'd give it a whirl. But it's not a good building unless you plan on playing late into the game. I think mosques was unavailable.

Losing out on Hagia Sophia was the worst since I was committed to Religious victory at this point. I started it too late because I lacked good locations for it. Religious victory without Hagia Sophia was not fun. I would say despite the good faith production of this civ, they aren't well suited for religious victory because one of their great advantages can't be taken advantage of. And that is faith buying naval units. I couldn't spare the faith to be buying that stuff. So the question is, what victory are they best suited for?

Here is my start. If anyone wants a crack at this game It's Indonesia Start save game. You should do better than me, I made too many mistakes this game. But as I said, it's just not particularly fun playing with a continents map. This starting location is okay, but the expansion was the problem.

Spoiler :


And my final screenshot. I won't include the save, it was just a bad game all around. My time of victory was 410, though I could have gotten that down significantly if I wasn't so intent on converting every single city in the world to my religion. I get kind of obsessed about things like that. Unfortunately you can't do that with your final civ since you win when when half their cities go. By comparison my Scythia and Georgia religious victories were in the 200's in turn time. I feel like Indonesia has some very fun abilities, but aren't well suited for any one victory type. The fun factor is high with them, but in terms of competitiveness I can't give them any higher than a C-, at least based on this game. Even Georgia blew them away in terms of victory turn time. A good reason is me getting too preoccupied with wars, and I didn't start mass converting until people stopped attacking me.

Spoiler :


My second game I started. My first game sucked so bad I really wanted to give them another chance. This is a large map, so I won't really be comparing them to other civs with this game since it's larger. Archipelago high seal levels, large size. I'm really undecided on what victory type to pursue. I may go culture victory.

Spoiler :



I often go for God of the Sea.

I normally like this one for Naval civs. But it's hard to pass up all that faith with Earth Goddess, very rarely do I get to pick this Pantheon. Faith is essentially naval production with Indonesia. But God of the Sea does help with everything else.


  • Leader Ability: Exalted Goddess of the Three Worlds. Can purchase Naval Units with Faith. Religious Units receive no movement penalties embarking or disembarking. City Centres adjacent to Coast or Lake receive +2 Faith.
  • The first part is the fun part. The 2nd part is not particularly noteworthy. Is speed of religious units that much an issue? Not for me. The 3rd part is the part that allows you to get those early pantheons. Both games I started above I got the 1st pantheon. I chose Earth Goddess both times.

  • Civ Ability: Great Nusantara. Coasts and Lakes provide +0.5 Adjacency for Holy Sites, Industrial Zones and Theatre Squares. Entertainment Complexes adjacent to a Coast or Lake provide +1 Amenities.
  • This is fairly useful. The only caveat if you choose Earth Goddess like me is you are losing those nice free faith tiles to districts. But these districts are pretty important, so it's important to get them down. Not as good as Australia's bonuses, but still not bad.

  • Unique Unit (Civ): Jong. Unique Naval Ranged Unit which replaces the Frigate (unlocks at Mercenaries in the Civics Tree). Melee Strength 45, Ranged Strength 55, Attack Range 2, Movement 5 (vs 4 for Frigate), Production Cost 300 (vs 280 for Frigate), Maintenance 5. Receives +5 Combat Strength when in formation, and shares movement with all units in formation. Upgrades to Battleship.
  • It's a pretty good UU if you are on the right map type. But for my first game above it was completely useless.

  • Unique Infrastructure: Kampung. Unique Improvement (requires one Builder Charge). Unlocks at Shipbuilding, and must be built on a Coast or Lake tile adjacent to a Sea Resource. Cannot be built on Reefs. +1 Production, +1 Housing, +1 Food for each adjacent Fishing Boat, +1 Housing (with Mass Production), +1 Production (Civil Engineering), +1 Tourism for every bonus Food (with Flight).
  • I like the production the most since production is so hard to come by on coastal cities. I forgot about the tourism, and may try a cultural victory my 2nd game to see how it is. Housing is quite useful as well since limited space for neighborhoods and aqueducts is an issue.
  • Leader Agenda: Archipelagic State. Likes Civs that avoid cities on small land masses, and dislikes Civs who have numerous cities on Islands.
  • It's very easy to satisfy her agenda and become friends with her.
 

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  • Leader Ability - Exalted Goddess of the Three Worlds
The free embarking/disembarking for religious units is a bit pointless, but the other two parts of this ability are solid. As a naval civ, it is great to have an ability to help get a navy. Faith purchasing is nice, especially when paired with an ability to get more faith.​

  • Civilization Ability - Great Nusantara
Another good ability, which works really well with Indonsia's settling preferences. Basically every body of water counts as a district for adjacency purposes. The extra amenity from Entertainment Complexes works well with the high housing Indonesia gets for its cities.​

  • Unique Infrastructure - Kampung
This is one of my favorite tile improvements in the game, and what makes Indonesia really work as a naval civ, as it compensates for the weaknesses of coastal/island cities. They can settle on tiny landmasses, and their cities will still have all the housing, food and production they need.​

  • Unique Unit - Jong
Frigates are already great, and this is a very good upgrade over the normal version. Very fast, great for transporting other units around.​


I really, really like Indonesia. It is a purely naval civ, and in my mind, easily the best naval civ in the game. They are not strongly geared towards any victory type, but will just be a good allround civ which can do a lot with terrain other civs would find pretty useless. That one tile island surrounded by 2 or 3 other small islands can become a huge city with great production, great gold output, and each of its maximum of 4 or 5 districts getting good adjacency bonuses. Weirdly, Indonesia is great at settling in polar regions.

Obviously, like Norway, Indonesia needs a water map to work well. This is not a major drawback for me, as I tend to prefer those in any case.

I also find Indonesia to be appealing aesthetically and thematically.
 
Indonesia's one of the few civs where you can grow large cities "naturally", i.e. without having to spend a lot of resources inefficiently to get your population up.

That makes it a good fit for people who like really high Population cities.
 
Indonesia is one of Civilizations I don't like.
I admit I never played as Gitarja - because she seems so easy-mode. AI Indonesia gets faith for free - and always gets the first pantheon, which is annoying and creates bad gameplay. The adjacency is okay I guess and the Jong is a good unit, apparently, however it arrives too early. Another Frigate replacement, Zeven de Provincien, arrives later... Faith buying navy is a decent touch. If you want to faith buy units, you go for a specific government building.
However the major problem seems to be the Kampung - especially the housing part. It's a hypercharged farm you can spam next to resources...
It's a very specific playstyle, not flexible. I also don't like her as opponent, though she is too easy to satisfy.
04/10 pts
My vote goes for Spain, which was a world scale player in the renaissance. (less so in Civ6)
 
They are one of my favourites because I enjoy naval civs and expanding to different overseas continents more than pangea play.
Godess of Harvest is a must. Anything else is a waste. Then hoping for golden age. I often build a worker super early to float to maybe find more era score to get to golden ages and using the chopping faith to get more builders and settlers.
Do not disagree that it can be easy if you can get a good start and avoid too close neighbours in the beginning.
 
First, I have to credit an old reddit post for this by navalaven titled, "Island plates + Indonesia + Auckland = Real tile porn." Can't really take credit for the idea though I added more conditions to help them shine.

For me, Indonesia is in a 4-way tie with the Aztec, Persia, and Australia for my favorite civ as well as the civs that I feel are the most powerful. The caveat is that Indonesia requires cherry-picking map conditions to reach their potential whereas the others are more versatile. With those conditions in place, though, Indonesia outshines all the others IMO. Those conditions are 1.) Island plates map, 2.) abundant resources 3.) God of the Sea pantheon, and 4.) Auckland

1.)Island plates map: I understand that archipelago achieves the same results though I don't have access to that map-script (side question: what's the difference between island plates and archipelago?) This ensures that every single city (or just about that) is coastal which means you get 2 free faith per turn per city that you own. Combined with their other ability, this means you can use exclusively faith instead of hammers to build your defenses (on an island plates map, land units are helpful but you really can defend yourself fine against the deity AI with almost exclusively naval units.) This frees up your hammers and gold quite a bit since you'll never have to use them for units (save perhaps the very early game.) It also means that all your harbors (which you'll want in just about every city) can be adjacent to your city centers providing enough gold, especially with the harbor adjacency card, to not only cover your unit and building maintenance cost but also allow periodic rush-buys, as well as giving a modest production boost to nearly every city with shipyards.

2.) abundant resources: I really like this map condition in all games as it makes all your cities have more "tile porn" tiles in both the land and sea tiles. The link to Indonesia, which cannot be overstated, is that it adds more sea resources and I've found that it makes nearly all coast tiles without resources qualify for a kampung, and considerably more of the kampungs get additional food for having several sea resources adjacent to them.

3.) God of the sea pantheon: This selection doesn't stack with kampungs as kampungs and fishing boats are mutually exclusive per tile. However, kampungs are strong but not that productive until the industrial age. Until such time, the pantheon helps boost production.
The pantheon choice actually has more to do with the map choices (islands/abundant resources) than it does the civ choice. I find that an island plates map with abundant resources will usually provide as much as and often more hammers than, say, a pangaea map with abundant resources would provide culture from pastures, for example.

4.) Auckland: this is the parameter that is heavily map dependent and could lead to multiple reloads if you want to use this strategy. Not only do you need this city-state to be in the game, but you also need it to be in a defensible position (either close to you so you can have your borders encapsulate it or isolated so that its not on a landmass including another civilization (as deity AI usually capture city-states early, but are atrocious at naval combat and selecting naval targets.) Even if it does get conquered, since the AI are atrocious at naval combat, you can easily liberate it and eliminate the civ who threatens it.
Once you do, you're golden. Especially if you spawn near them, you'll get a free envoy from first-meet, a second envoy from early civics, and a third envoy from either completing a quest, completing the first envoy clock, or getting the other classical civic that gives an envoy. From then on, they're a higher priority for envoys as its one of the central elements of the strategy.
But having them, the tile yields from coastal tiles are staggering. Tiles with a sea resource have yields of 3F/2P/2G plus another yield depending on the type of resource (more food from fish, gold from crabs, production from whales, etc.) Later in the game, add another gold and food from techs and another production from auckland, so you get yields like 5F/3P/5G. Your non-resource coastal tiles (to which there are many thanks to the map) have kampungs that yield 3F/2P/1G (more food in select few) plus lots of housing, and later add another 2 production and even more housing.

Side notes:
1.) Seaports: these incredible tile yields can add even more gold with seaports, but this has the same problem that many have with industrial zones (come late, may not generate enough to cover their cost due to limited turns remaining.) However,since nearly every tile you're working is coastal, it adds gold to nearly every tile you're working and can add A LOT of extra gold if the game is tight.
2.) Civil Engineering: this becomes the highest priority must-rush-to-this civic (or tech) as it both enters the industrial age (satisfying Auckland's second bonus) and gives and extra hammer to the kampung, effectively adding 1 production to all coastal resource tiles and 2 production to all Kampungs.
3.) Land resources: since your coastal tiles are so good, you'll be prioritizing them over land tiles (with few exceptions,) Consequently, you can go to town more than usual with harvesting land resources, giving many of your cities a big (or several) boosts.
4.) district and wonder placement: similar to the previous note, the yields you get from coastal tiles means that you'll be prioritizing them over most of the land tiles. Consequently, you can maximize your adjacency bonuses more than usual since you won't be as concerned with getting the yields of a plains wheat or grass copper.
 
I would have loved to gotten Auckland my game. I only had Hong Kong. I finished my 2nd game. Much more enjoyable than my first game. I would say never even bother playing them on a pangaea or continents map. If you have it on random and they pop up, just reroll. They really are only fun on island plates or archipelago. They are okay on TSL maps, but you will have a slow start. Until you get shipbuilding you can't expand (peacefully), so they are at a disadvantage compared to all the other civs. It's hard to catch up.

Final screenshot, look at all those beautiful Kampungs. If only Auckland was in the game. I also built aquaculture fisheries in places I couldn't build Kampungs. Too bad my game ended too early to really get big humongous cities. That's why sometimes I like to play my games late and not be efficient in any way, and just try to get big huge cities with fisheries everywhere.

Spoiler :


Certainly not my fastest cultural victory, but faster than most of the civ of the weeks games I've played where I went for cultural victory. Especially faster than civs like Egypt. But it should be noted I did not go up against any major cultural civs in this game like Kongo, Russia, or Brazil. The Kampung tourism bonus is easily enough to make up for the fact you probably can't build any National Parks anywhere. I also didn't bother pulling up a lot of improvements to build Seaside resorts, but I probably could have after Eiffel Tower finished. I only had like 3 or 4 Seaside resorts in this game. Could have gotten maybe faster had I started earlier. I started the game with no clear victory goal in mind. Only after I stopped conquering did I buckle down and focus on culture. Indonesia is well suited for culture victory.

Spoiler :
 

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This frees up your hammers and gold quite a bit since you'll never have to use them for units (save perhaps the very early game.)
I have yet to play Indonesia, but have come to appreciate the talents of that other naval civ, Norway. I played a deity level game where I waited a bit longer than I usually would to chop out a navy. By this point I had a decent income, and as time passed, the civics progressed, and the chop values increased as well. With the +100% naval unit card, Norway's +50% toward naval melee units, and magnus +50%, it was an overflow BONANZA. I chopped out like 8 Viking longships and 4 quadremes from only 1 city. I never felt the need for more units and could easily plan fleet and armadas from the multitude of cities I was able to conquer. Not to detract from Indonesia, as it sounds like a fine civ. But, I'm saying that faith has other important uses besides buying naval units, and it is a double edged sword which also can cut back @ you via opportunity cost of a monumentality golden age or great person, etc...

EDIT: PS, your strategy sounds fun. Perhaps I'll try it one day.
 
It's been a good long while since I played an Indonesia game, perhaps that will be my pick when I return to Civ 6. I remember enjoying to make those great cities on the coast or tiny islands. I found a couple of old screenshots from my previous Indonesia game:

Core territory:
Spoiler :


Three tiles in the ocean:
Spoiler :

 
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