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Civ Unique Ability Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by DWilson, Aug 12, 2019.

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  1. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 16 = 19 - 3 If we're eliminating Brazil because you want to chop Rainforest (yielding half food, half production) and their adjacency bonus runs counter to that, then Aus deserved to go first because if you want to chop rainforest, you would doubly want to chop woods (all production), and that runs counter to their appeal bonus. Can't have it both ways.
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 22
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 25
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 17
    Kongo - Nkisi: 24
    Maori - Mana: 32 = 31 + 1 Sadly, one of the only ones left that gives a real strong flavor to its Civ.
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 20

    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 10
    Russia - Mother Russia : 23
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 28
     
  2. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

    Joined:
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    Okay, i's time for me to fight terrifying enemy.

    Australia - Land Down Under: 16
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 22
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 25
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 17
    Kongo - Nkisi: 24
    Maori - Mana: 32 - 3 = 29
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 20
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 10
    Russia - Mother Russia : 23 + 1 = 24
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 28

    Most Maori UA bonuses is conditional and depending on water terrain. And rest depends on forests. Maori UA also has a lot of actual drawback, both direct and indirect ones. Resources cannot be harvested, great writers cannot be earned, your start is dangerous and unpredictable and your forest tiles 'just' get instant 2x weaker lumbermill. It is still very good ability but shouldn't win, unlike those which are truly universal, such as...

    Mother Russia - always works, always provides you benefits, greatly simplifies early game, expansion and city development, always works from turn 0... And I'm just talking about more tiles. Tundra faith turns you into religious superpower. (Remember, tunera start bias is not part of UA do it isn't technically UA fault)
     
    Kimiimaro likes this.
  3. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 16+1=17
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 22
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 25
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 17-3=14
    Kongo - Nkisi: 24
    Maori - Mana: 32 - 3 = 29
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 20
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 10
    Russia - Mother Russia : 24
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 28

    Why the hell is Meiji Restoration still around? It's not that good compared to everything else here, and significantly weaker than Australia's grab-bag of bonuses. The Meiji Restoration's major bonuses doesn't kick in until mid-game, when you have districts to take advantage of.
     
  4. Icicle

    Icicle Prince

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 18 (17+1) This is nearly as broken as everything else about Australia. Never seen a map without more than enough high appeal bonuses to take advantage of this. Mountains and natural wonders give them so easily you'll have plenty even if you chop, which to be honest if you're still chopping everything you see you aren't playing optimally anyway.
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 22
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 25
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 14
    Kongo - Nkisi: 24
    Maori - Mana: 29
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 20 Just wanted to point out that instantly building a trading post has applications beyond the warfare bonus - you can chain traders going further and further out to get instantly across the world many many turns before any other civ could this way. Not Mongolia's fault that nobody ever uses it for that. :)
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 7 (10-3) I gave it a real try in what time I had, but I can't see the way to justify downvoting anything else while this is still around. The argument that it provides campus bonuses without terrain concerns is a well taken one, but I don't see that boosting this over anything else left except possibly Japan, which in all fairness I'll be downvoting next probably.
    Russia - Mother Russia : 24
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 28
     
  5. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    I was out 2 days and I am shocked.

    Civ VI rewards conquering. There is nothing like "tall" play competing with any kind of conquest. And somehow, there is only Mongolia left. ottomans quick decline, antimacedon crusade....

    And we are left with tons of adjecency bonus and Austraila, when taking one city via conquest benefits more than any simcity around one setllement' adjecencies (let us be sincere, only industrial adjecencies matter, as they are local, not summing up the whole empire), and even Scotland, which forces you to play not competitive gamestyle.

    Australia - Land Down Under: 18
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 22
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 25
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 14
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21 (24-3) Weak compare to many that were eliminated and I pick this as I think Australia/Kongo/Scotland are more or less the same distance behind other here and I downvited the two earlier. Food from rei\lics is luck dependent (although unique district can be used for it), sculptures and artifact come very late and unless you buy some from Russia, you dont have early acces to them. I love Kongo UB and UU, and kongo is my one of favs to play as, but this is not impressing,. Top half, but limited use
    Maori - Mana: 29
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 21 (20+1) Someone mentioned it takes some time to finish trade route //facepalm. Hello! Wake up! It is Mongolia!. The only military ability left and beside Russia the most powerful one.
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 7
    Russia - Mother Russia : 24
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 28



    What?
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  6. Weraptor

    Weraptor King

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 18
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 22
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 25
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 15+1=16 Better adjacencies for all districts -> easy Free Inquiry golden age -> busted science output akin to Australia's with good appeal.
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21
    Maori - Mana: 29-3=26 Significant maluses this ability presents are a good tradeoff, yet I feel hampered by their existance.
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 21
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 7
    Russia - Mother Russia : 24
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 28
     
  7. The Sentinel

    The Sentinel Chieftain

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 18
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19 = 22 - 3 hard to choose at the moment, list is getting shorter. was really torn between this one and the netherlands, Grote Rivieren has reached the end of its life in here. sadly free workers mostly comes from the UU so the time dependancy of the Legend of the Five Suns justifies downvoting this over the Grote Rivieren.
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 26 = 25 + 1 Extra wildcard slot is a very good bonus no matter your playstyle.
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 16
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21
    Maori - Mana: 26
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 21
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 7
    Russia - Mother Russia : 24
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 28
     
  8. fantsu

    fantsu Prince

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    Location:
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    Australia - Land Down Under: 18
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 26
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 16
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21
    Maori - Mana: 26
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 21
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 4 (7-3) The river bonuses are strong, but other than that its really situational.
    Russia - Mother Russia : 24
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 29 (28+1) It just helps you getting ahead. I just value extra production and science. They help on domination.
     
  9. civviefan

    civviefan Warlord

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 18
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 26+1=27
    I consider Scotland the best in this criterion. But Greeces flexibility is unparalleled and lasts all game long!
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 16
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21
    Maori - Mana: 26
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 21
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 4
    Russia - Mother Russia : 24-3=21 I can buy the couple of tiles i want for 160 gold. If you look at it like that then this ability fails to impress. Full of flavor though and i love tundra starts
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 29
     
  10. NullNullError

    NullNullError Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Australia - Land Down Under: 18
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 24(27-3 the only ability remaining that can be replaced by building a wonder.)
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 17( 16+1fitting bonus for a cramed island state.)

    Kongo - Nkisi: 21
    Maori - Mana: 26
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 21
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 4
    Russia - Mother Russia : 21
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 29
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  11. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 18
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 24
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 17
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21
    Maori - Mana: 26
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 18 (21-3) The AI is so bad at war that ultimately combat abilities matter less than ones which help your infrastructure...
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 5 (4+1) Adjacency bonuses are really valuable and this one is very consistent. Usually half my cities will be on a river (but obviously depends on your map settings) and all those cities are going to have triangles of at least +3 districts which lets you make the most of your policy cards. Japan does this even more consistency, but this is still a very potent ability.

    Russia - Mother Russia : 21
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 29
     
  12. Troy Bruckner

    Troy Bruckner Prince

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 18
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 24
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 17
    Kongo - Nkisi: 22 (21+1) Such a mighty ability. This is what makes Kongo tier S above all other Civs, Nothing else is close because It gives my capital the equivalent of about 1 bonus tile. Also building theater districts in all 4 of my cities while other Civs have 20 will surely keep me in the game.
    Maori - Mana: 23 (26-3) I might end up founding my cities without forests therefore this ability is no good.....
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 18
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 5
    Russia - Mother Russia : 21
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 29
     
  13. Architect

    Architect Prince

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 18
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 24
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 18 (17 + 1) This stacks with any district including aqueducts, dams, and canals which give +3 to IZ for example. A flat increase like this that is not dependent on anything but placing districts next to one another is way better than any percent based yield until the very late game. The city center also counts as a district so you only need a 4 pop city to start to gain huge benefits and happiness does not matter.
    Kongo - Nkisi: 22
    Maori - Mana: 23
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 18
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 5
    Russia - Mother Russia : 21
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 26 (29 - 3) If your city is ecstatic +10% addition production, +10% additional science and +2 GS is the best civ ability in the game? To get the same science bonus as a single district triangle with Meiji Restoration your city would need to produce 10 science and have +3 amenities! Keeping your happiness at +3 amenities in a city is not something you can do without planning.
     
  14. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 18
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 24
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 18
    Kongo - Nkisi: 19 (22 - 3) A good bonus, but comes the latest out of all the others. The best Civs, at least according to my amateur pov, are those who hit the ground running and not those who start slowly.
    Maori - Mana: 23
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 18
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 6 (5+1) Very easy bonus, kicks in immediately to give you a large amount of tiny yields that snowball easily. I don't think it should go next; it's definitely as good as Japan's bonus is.
    Russia - Mother Russia : 21
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 26
     
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  15. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 18
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 24
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 18
    Kongo - Nkisi: 20 (19 + 1) 50% on 4 types of GPP by itself would've been stronger than some weaker civ's entire UA (and moreover, there are sucky great scientists and great engineers in the game, but I have never met a sucky great merchant or culture GP; well I guess there's the +1 diplomatic visibility lady who is kinda useless although if you play Kongo properly you will win long before she pops up). On top of that throw in 4 extra slots for the palace (yes, this is civ UA and not leader UA) and extra yields from relics (artifacts not so much) when you can get endless apostles for "free"? People clearly do not know how to do a St Michel martyr rush with them.
    Maori - Mana: 23
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 18
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 6
    Russia - Mother Russia : 21
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 23 (26-3) I'm surprised that this is currently top score, really. Firstly you need 3 amenities to get to ecstatic (and wouldn't you be better off selling those luxes, by the way?) Moreover early GS and GE are WEAK compared to later era ones (the early era eureka guy or the holy site to science guy... and then those non-wonder production engineers). Later on in the game, the GPP from your buildings will easily overshadow the GPP that you get from the UA.
     
  16. Pure24

    Pure24 Warlord

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 18
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 24
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 18
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21 (20 + 1). To reinforce the reasons, Kongo has an ability which helps you earn GWAM and extra slots to house them. AND if you have relics, artifacts, or sculptures you get more bonuses. This is great cultural play.
    Kongo actually also synergises well with Mvemba a Nzinga's ability to give you free Apostles for theatre squares (which you need to house those GWAMs in the first place), which also means relics!

    Maori - Mana: 23
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 18. To clarify on my earlier point when I downvoted this ability, I am aware that Mongolia instantly creates a trading post. What I'm saying is that you still have to SEND the trade route to create the trading post. From your first trade route, the next time you have that ability is researching Celestial Navigation/Currency, building the appropriate districts and then the first level buildings (+building or buying a trader). All that so that you can get another trade route to send for the extra visibility/trading post to another civ. It's a good ability, nobody's saying it should have been gone in the first round. But it isn't as game changing to be able to send trade routes further earlier and have extra visibility/combat strength for it as the abilities left which give you great early bonuses with little to no effort.
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 6
    Russia - Mother Russia : 21
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 20 (23-3). Agreed, as above
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  17. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    While conquering other civs may be one way to play the game that you prefer, it's also mind numblingly boring to a lot of players. The AI in general is so easy to go to war with I could (but won't) downvote Mongolia right now just because you don't even *need* that bonus to roll over them, it just makes it even more of a forgone conclusion in my book.

    Australia - Land Down Under: 19 (18+1) The best of the adjacency-based abilities and the easiest to take advantage of.
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 24
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 18
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21
    Maori - Mana: 23
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 18
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 3 (6-3) I like this a lot, but this is probably about where it should go. Of the 3 adjacency bonuses left, this one is the weakest IMO.
    Russia - Mother Russia : 21
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 20
     
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  18. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

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    I see Örtöö as more than just warmongering, though. It's also helpful to get out early trade routes that can go much further than they otherwise would. That's especially helpful for maintaining positive relations and for spreading culture and religion. All of that said, Barbarians might not make it easy to keep those trade routes running. And, the religious spread is minor. And, the culture spread isn't really much of a consideration until later in the game. Still, I really like the theme. It fits Mongolia very well.

    Australia - Land Down Under: 19
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 24
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 18 + 1 = 19 (Still the most reliable adjacency bonus in the game. Plus, it's thematically fun and changes the way that you plan cities. It's a great ability!)
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21
    Maori - Mana: 23
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 18
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: 3
    Russia - Mother Russia : 21
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 20 - 3 = 17 (I'm not sure why this ability is "Scotland". Keeping cities at Ecstatic isn't trivial, especially once you start expanding. And, while the Great Scientist points are helpful early, I'm not so sure about the Great Engineer points. I don't think that I've ever built an early Industrial Zone.)
     
  19. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 19
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 24
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 19
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21
    Maori - Mana: 23
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 18
    Netherlands - Grote Rivieren: Eliminated = 3 - 3 While I love Netherlands, and this ability is quite good, it's difficult to get enough river cities. If you want to go for lots of polders, then you find yourself on the coast without many rivers. So you are often forced to choose between polders and river adjacency. It's difficult to get both sometimes.
    Russia - Mother Russia : 21
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 18 = 17 +1 Way too soon to be downvoting this. It's not that difficult to get ecstatic even with 20 cities I sometimes get (though usually I'm around 15). Though it will require you to get the civic for zoos and water parks to get there usually. It's well worth it, not just a science boost, but a pretty good production boost as well.
     
  20. Kimiimaro

    Kimiimaro King

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 19+1=20 - Extended freshwater, plenty of culture bombs and giant district yields, this all in one. I'm in.
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 24-3=21 - Flexible and available from turn one, sure. But I'm not convinced that this is the best out of this pack. As said, this bonus is gainable for any civ with Forbidden Palace, making this not so unique. And even though I admit it's fun to have both God King and Urban Planning at the same time, I've never felt active policy play being a large part of my game.
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 19
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21
    Maori - Mana: 23
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 18
    Russia - Mother Russia : 21
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 18
     
  21. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 17 (20-3) just finished a game with them no adjacencies bar the odd +1. ThoughtI’d try them out again to see. Completely unconvinced. And you voted out Holland who pretty much guarantees +4 for all campuses with a max of +14. I may want Earth goddess but it conflicts. Have you even played Holland and understand the power of adjacency cards. If you are happy to restart so you get lots of mountains as Oz then float your boat, but as a non restarter I just had a flat ground start with Scythia in the mountains. Such an over exaggerated civ. Oh you can manage appeal easily? Like sacrificing great Governor slots so you can build city parks? Grow some trees at T130 when it does not matter anymore ... and what on Earth is a rush to Eiffel? That’s damn tiring, I rush to redcoats as England ...and I need my adjacency to get me there, not after. I’ll take a 20% district builder over this or an extra wildcard or any other civ ability below and I would also take Holland’s over it... but then I do not restart.
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 21
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 19
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21
    Maori - Mana: 24 (23+1) the best for exploration, for early CS envoys, for attack fast and for pwning navally. The non resource harvesting is a downer but the large amounts of early production that continue through the game counteracts that and some. Ocean bombs are great, you use them a lot and the fishing boats mean big pops early.
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 18
    Russia - Mother Russia : 21
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 18
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  22. Caprikel

    Caprikel Warlord

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 17
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 18 (21-3) I think this ability is pretty overrated. Is there really any policy card in the entire game that is better than +2 river adjacency for campuses, TS's, and IZ's, or in other words the ability which was just recently eliminated? People argue that flexibility is what makes this ability so great, but isn't much better adjacencies for several districts very flexible as well?
    Also since this ability gives an extra slot, it only means you'll be able to put in your nth most important policy card, when n is the n-1 is the normal number of policy card slots you would have. Basically what I'm saying is that this ability becomes less impactful over time as you get more policy card slots, and the early policy cards aren't typically very powerful either. They're certainly not as powerful as high yielding campuses that you could get early on with the Netherlands ability. I'm sure someone could argue a obscure situation where having the extra slot could be very impactful, but overall I don't see this ability being as strong as even the average generalist district adjacency ability.

    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 19
    Kongo - Nkisi: 21
    Maori - Mana: 24
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 18
    Russia - Mother Russia : 22 (21+1) The tundra is steadily getting better, which benefits the Tundra boost this ability has. Then of course the 8 free tiles is useful all throughout the game.
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 18
     
  23. KayAU

    KayAU King

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    Australia - Land Down Under: 17
    Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: 19
    Greece - Plato's Republic: 18
    Japan - Meiji Restoration: 19
    Kongo - Nkisi: 22 (21 + 1) The first ability to get a second upvote from me. I can consistently get +12 food +12 production +24 gold from the majority of my Archeological Museums as Kongo, in addition to the culture and tourism. This makes the Theatre Square essentially an additional excellent Commercial Hub and good Industrial Zone, while still being a Theatre Square.
    Maori - Mana: 24
    Mongolia - Örtöö: 15 (18 -3) As mentioned, while this is strong, its application is limited.
    Russia - Mother Russia : 22
    Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: 18
     
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