Sounds like detail at the expense of fun to me. It can't be so detailed that running a military operation is like, well, running a military operation - remember that when four men want to go on a small operation, it can take a whole day to plan it.
Civ V Ideas & Suggestions Summary
- Thread starter Camikaze
- Start date
techathon
Member
Its not really that detailed... You start with a # of units, and you both pickup and lose some along the way. The enemies can plan by possibly spreading disease or affecting supplies, it brings the supply line concept that was important in some wars. It is basically the same except for this. You aren't attacking in any different way, (except for the disease and supplies which could be added to spies) battle mechanics aren't changed, the value of strength is less but the concept is the same. you still send your armies from point A to point B. It just limits the SoD.
Having both a disease limitation and a food supply limitation could be a bit problematic, however. Personally, I prefer the supply line idea, so long as it is reasonably simplified. But so long as it the combination of ideas doesn't end up overpowering stacks in the game to the degree where they are absolutely and unrealistically unusable, it should be fine to include them both.
Silv Something
Pi(e) Loving Maniac
I agree.
I've also thought that perhaps they should bring in more realistic numbers somehow. Not sure whether it would just add complexity without adding to the gameplay. If it is possible then you could perhaps do a more tactical 'on the ground' battle for example. NOT real-time, but you perhaps a more detailed turn-based type of battle against the AI where you zoom into the terrain. Meh... perhaps it wouldn't work like I said. You don't want to lose that Civ-feel.
Lachlan
Great Builder of Civs !
I have an idea but i dont know if this subject was already speaked...
What about organization like "European Union" or "NATO" or a real federalism like the "USA" ?
"European Union"-type : With time the alliance could be more and more deeper or break down suddenly...
"NATO"-type : A military alliance leaded by a dominant civ and full of middle or little civs, free to participate or not at one war but you should accept the consequences...
"USA"-type : A civilization builded with a determined number of civs...
50 one city civs, 25 two cities civs or 12 three cities civs (just an example of maximum).
The play who joins a federation leave just the control of its army to the new "federation civ" and controls the rest as usual and time on time give a vote on civics and politics of the federation... Possibility of secession if 1/3 of the civ has voted against central government (a designated city to be common on model of Washington DC)...
What do you think Camikaze and others ?
What about organization like "European Union" or "NATO" or a real federalism like the "USA" ?
"European Union"-type : With time the alliance could be more and more deeper or break down suddenly...
"NATO"-type : A military alliance leaded by a dominant civ and full of middle or little civs, free to participate or not at one war but you should accept the consequences...
"USA"-type : A civilization builded with a determined number of civs...
50 one city civs, 25 two cities civs or 12 three cities civs (just an example of maximum).
The play who joins a federation leave just the control of its army to the new "federation civ" and controls the rest as usual and time on time give a vote on civics and politics of the federation... Possibility of secession if 1/3 of the civ has voted against central government (a designated city to be common on model of Washington DC)...
What do you think Camikaze and others ?
I like the idea of military alliances. I even made a thread partially about them. See here. The main problems with it are that it would inevitably either be abused, or made unusable to prevent this. For example, if you had a military alliance under a unified command, the commander would sacrifice the troops of other civs, and take cities with their own units. But if you didn't have a unified command, then it wouldn't really be all that much of a useful feature.
Unless somehow they had an incentive to keep their allies alive - maybe losing an allied unit cost major relations points, and could potentially break up the alliance if the other sides thought you were abusing it
Silv Something
Pi(e) Loving Maniac
Perhaps AI could recommend places for their units to go?
This would be problematic, because it would force you to pretty much only use your units, on pain of diplomatic penalties. It wouldn't therefore weaken an attack, as well as weaken the civ that takes the lead. So there would be no incentive for it and no benefits to be gained from it.
A recommendation isn't really going to do anything, though. And if it did, then there would be no point in having an alliance. Units would effectively move themselves anyway.
techathon
Member
RHYGAR Ur first post YAY 
I agree with Camikaze on the recommendation point the way it is. Perhaps you could trade units for cheep with allies, the AI could also possibly buy from you. Gifts of units could also happen... And the USA idea could be cool, because it could lead to civil wars which could be fun.
I also got an idea from history class yesterday. In the spread of religion, (in the case I viewed, Buddhism) religions are modified to fit the needs of the area it is spread to. How about possibly having the divisions like protestant/Catholic w/o having a penalty against the other people with the same religion, but they give different bonuses, like one could give production, and another commerce, another happiness, and so on....
I agree with Camikaze on the recommendation point the way it is. Perhaps you could trade units for cheep with allies, the AI could also possibly buy from you. Gifts of units could also happen... And the USA idea could be cool, because it could lead to civil wars which could be fun.
I also got an idea from history class yesterday. In the spread of religion, (in the case I viewed, Buddhism) religions are modified to fit the needs of the area it is spread to. How about possibly having the divisions like protestant/Catholic w/o having a penalty against the other people with the same religion, but they give different bonuses, like one could give production, and another commerce, another happiness, and so on....
techathon
Member
they don't need to have names, and confusionism was never left china, but daoism was edited to fit the emporers' needs.
Lachlan
Great Builder of Civs !
1) For buddhism : little or great vehicle (petit ou grand vehicule)...
2) For system of armies in alliances :
The government for the alliance should be represented by one city called "anything-DC" and controlling 66 % of military power of the alliance, the rest is controlled by the different federated states (suffisely for police able actions)...
In exchange to "rent" their units to central goverment of alliance the differents federated states should receive something bonus for it...
But one problem remain : what are the basis of an advanced alliance or an integrated federation ? Religious ? Geographic ? Ethnic ? or Politic or purely Militaristic ?
Thanks for considering this idea that perhaps anybody had thought before me...
Glorious to Civilization 5 !!!
2) For system of armies in alliances :
The government for the alliance should be represented by one city called "anything-DC" and controlling 66 % of military power of the alliance, the rest is controlled by the different federated states (suffisely for police able actions)...
In exchange to "rent" their units to central goverment of alliance the differents federated states should receive something bonus for it...
But one problem remain : what are the basis of an advanced alliance or an integrated federation ? Religious ? Geographic ? Ethnic ? or Politic or purely Militaristic ?
Thanks for considering this idea that perhaps anybody had thought before me...
Glorious to Civilization 5 !!!
Classenemy
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2008
- Messages
- 7
What Civ 5 is going to be, the recourse to reality remains the most important feature. We have to face it, Civ 1 was the real hit, everything else just an adjustment to new technology. And the future is written in the stars, my friends. There is no escape from reality. Everything has to be more realistic, terrain, cities, resources, battles, etc. The problem with the game as it is (for me, at least) is that I cannot pass the midgame fatigue (whether I play civ 1, 2, 3, or 4). I built some cities, some wonders, got some wars started--now all I have to do is click enter to build more troops, more buildings, more tech, etc. I get bored. The most frustrating is the lack of realism in managing construction: you have to wait 100 years (turns) to build an army; during this time, you cannot build anything else; if you build civilian constructions, you cannot build military, or wonders. Is this how civilizations are managed? We need more realism!
techathon
Member
Confucianism was technically not a religion as it usuially had no god that they worshiped, that was daoism.
And Classenemy, i agree, but it would be harder to put extra realism in the game, possibly for your production problem, ther could be a resruters office to handle military? IDK
Well that isn't really going to solve the problem. This distinction obfuscates the uniformity between religions in the game already, let alone when adding in schisms.
Classenemy
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2008
- Messages
- 7
techathon, thanks for your posting. I don't know if a non-realistic solution would solve the production fatigue. Yes, allowing for the simultaneous construction of civilian (including social and industrial) and military (including tactical and industrial) buildings would be a common sense solution. Cities develop organically in reality, right, not unilaterally? AS for the army building problem, with conscription you should be able to conscript the whole male population (possibly even female) at one turn. Yes, you should be able to build a whole army in one click. This is how it is done in reality. And, depending on how well you are stocked with armament and how advanced this is, you have the army that you deserve. True, during such mobilization, cities are brought to minimum survival mode, but after the war you can de-mobilize the army and bring them back to cities. This is how is actually is. And one more thing: there should be a separate complex military tech tree that allows you to build customized units--not all rifles are the same quality, not all tanks are the same quality--some are basic, others have optical and electronic improvements. That would allow you not only to have units with different experience, but also with different armament levels. That would add some edge to the game; otherwise, there is no fun in building the same unit (for instance, tanks) over and over again. And yes, there should be a possibility for a permanent professional army--but you should not spend tens of turns waiting for the whole city to produce one rifleman. It is not like that in reality. And in reality you do not produce a cannon with the cannoneer, but only the cannon, which you then man with the conscripts. You might have a lot of conscripts, but not enough weapons for all, so they will fight with what is available. I know realism adds complexity and micromanagement to the game, but without that, the game is kind of boring.
ilduce349
(Financial, Philo)
1. I would like to see a combination of Civ 4 BTS and Civ colonization, i like the colonization city format, but expand to 2 territories like Civ 4, so for the unit building have 7 kind of weapons Ranged, Melee (wood, bronze or Iron subcategories), Gunpowder, Armor and artillery which can then be used to form unit depending on which category it is in.
2. Like in Civ Rev i think you should be able to form armies by combining units, instead of being able to combine just units of the same type you should be able to combine a spearman and and axeman to creat and army, this makes it more realistic because in real life generals don't attack with axeman first and when they all die then attack with the spearman, they attack at the same time, so i think when combining units the units get 2/3 of their original strength, for example combing the spear man (strength 4) and the axeman (strength 5) gives you a Strength of 6 with plus %50 against horses and Plus %25 against melee units, the advantage of this is 1 i had 10 horse archers attacking 1 longbowmen in a unwalled city, in real life the horse archers would win, however i had a %3 chance with the fist one and lost 8 of them before giving up.
3. Change in unit strength and movement
Settler 1-2 Requires 50 Tools
Worker 1-2 Requires 50 Tools
Scout 2-2 or 2-3 with horses Requires 25 Tools (and 50 horses if mounted scout)
Warrior 3-1 Requires 30 melee weapons
Archer 3-2 receives X2 defensive bonuses, +50% when defending a walled city and 1 first strike. Requires 30 Ranged weapons
Spearman 5-1 +100% against Mounted and +50% when defending. 40mw
Axeman 6-1 +50% against Melee 45mw
Swordsman 8-1 Immune to first strikes and +10% city attack 50mw
Maceman 9-1 +50% against melle units 55mw
Pikeman 7-1 +100% against horses, +25% hills and forest defense
Longbowmen 6-1 Receives X2 Defensive bonuses, +50% when defending a walled city and 2-3 first strikes 50rw
Crossbowmen 7-1 +70% when defending a walled city, +10% when attack/defending plains and 1-2 first strikes 40rw
Horse Archers 6-4 +10% when defending a hill 40rw (and 50 horses)
Knight 10-2 immune to first strikes. 50 mw (and 50 horses)
Musketmen 5-2 +50 city defense +10% hills and mountains defense 1 first strike 20 guns (guns are just as easy to make as bows so the whole point of the musket is it is cheap)
Catapult 2-1 Can Bombard city defenses (12%/turn), Can Bombard units (10%/turn to a maximum of 75%)
trebuchet 3-1 Can Bombard city defenses (15%/turn) Can Bombard units (15%/turn to a maximum of 75%)
Cannon 10-1 Can Bombard city defenses (20%/turn)
Grenadeirs 8-1 +10% vs city, +50% vs Rifleman receives 1 first strike
Rifleman 11-1 +50% vs plains (att or def) +50% city defense, recieves 1 first strike
Supply Wagon 3-3 can heal units (units can't heal themselves) =.4 health/food in storage +50 Tool and give it food to heal units
ect, i don't play enough late game stuff to decide the rest
3. Conscription, at any time you can choose to conscript giving you the most basic unit you can produce for 1 citizen loss, +1
in every city
4. 2 tech trees, 1 for scientific advancement, the other for military advancement, so you can produce 3 types of each unit for example swordsman I, II and III, the first is the basic unit, then the second is +1 strenght the Third is +1strenght +1 movement
5. more realistic tech times, on noble the 2 times i have not got bored during the medieval era, i finished the tech tree between 1750-1850, and i have discovered christianity in 1100bs and 950bc, fix it
6. more unique units, i would like 4 uu/team like in rev
7. have to upgrade roads rather then upgreaded automaticly
2. Like in Civ Rev i think you should be able to form armies by combining units, instead of being able to combine just units of the same type you should be able to combine a spearman and and axeman to creat and army, this makes it more realistic because in real life generals don't attack with axeman first and when they all die then attack with the spearman, they attack at the same time, so i think when combining units the units get 2/3 of their original strength, for example combing the spear man (strength 4) and the axeman (strength 5) gives you a Strength of 6 with plus %50 against horses and Plus %25 against melee units, the advantage of this is 1 i had 10 horse archers attacking 1 longbowmen in a unwalled city, in real life the horse archers would win, however i had a %3 chance with the fist one and lost 8 of them before giving up.
3. Change in unit strength and movement
Settler 1-2 Requires 50 Tools
Worker 1-2 Requires 50 Tools
Scout 2-2 or 2-3 with horses Requires 25 Tools (and 50 horses if mounted scout)
Warrior 3-1 Requires 30 melee weapons
Archer 3-2 receives X2 defensive bonuses, +50% when defending a walled city and 1 first strike. Requires 30 Ranged weapons
Spearman 5-1 +100% against Mounted and +50% when defending. 40mw
Axeman 6-1 +50% against Melee 45mw
Swordsman 8-1 Immune to first strikes and +10% city attack 50mw
Maceman 9-1 +50% against melle units 55mw
Pikeman 7-1 +100% against horses, +25% hills and forest defense
Longbowmen 6-1 Receives X2 Defensive bonuses, +50% when defending a walled city and 2-3 first strikes 50rw
Crossbowmen 7-1 +70% when defending a walled city, +10% when attack/defending plains and 1-2 first strikes 40rw
Horse Archers 6-4 +10% when defending a hill 40rw (and 50 horses)
Knight 10-2 immune to first strikes. 50 mw (and 50 horses)
Musketmen 5-2 +50 city defense +10% hills and mountains defense 1 first strike 20 guns (guns are just as easy to make as bows so the whole point of the musket is it is cheap)
Catapult 2-1 Can Bombard city defenses (12%/turn), Can Bombard units (10%/turn to a maximum of 75%)
trebuchet 3-1 Can Bombard city defenses (15%/turn) Can Bombard units (15%/turn to a maximum of 75%)
Cannon 10-1 Can Bombard city defenses (20%/turn)
Grenadeirs 8-1 +10% vs city, +50% vs Rifleman receives 1 first strike
Rifleman 11-1 +50% vs plains (att or def) +50% city defense, recieves 1 first strike
Supply Wagon 3-3 can heal units (units can't heal themselves) =.4 health/food in storage +50 Tool and give it food to heal units
ect, i don't play enough late game stuff to decide the rest
3. Conscription, at any time you can choose to conscript giving you the most basic unit you can produce for 1 citizen loss, +1
in every city4. 2 tech trees, 1 for scientific advancement, the other for military advancement, so you can produce 3 types of each unit for example swordsman I, II and III, the first is the basic unit, then the second is +1 strenght the Third is +1strenght +1 movement
5. more realistic tech times, on noble the 2 times i have not got bored during the medieval era, i finished the tech tree between 1750-1850, and i have discovered christianity in 1100bs and 950bc, fix it
6. more unique units, i would like 4 uu/team like in rev
7. have to upgrade roads rather then upgreaded automaticly
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