Civ VII Civilisation & Leader Timeline

[Jabberwockxeno]

I think it's a little ironic that everybody is saying the chart should exclusively show the Classic Maya, meanwhile the literal Civ icon is based on serpent head sculptures at Chichen Itza, a Postclassic Maya site.

Granted, other elements of the Maya in Civ 7 and most other Civ games is primarily influenced by Classic Mayas, so that's really more on Firaxis, but I do think it's ironic especially when Civ 7 finally switched out the Temple of Kukulcan (ever misnamed as "Chichen Itza" as if that's not the name of a whole city) for the Lost World complex at Tikal (though I would have erred on making Tikal's waterworks network a wonder over that, or maybe the Tonina Acropolis, etc)

I will say that as somebody into Mesoamerican history and archeology, I have always been a bit iffy about the 2000BC date I often see used as the start of Maya Civilization. To be clear, this is something that does come up in reputable sources, and the Formative/Preclassic period is what I am least familiar with, and i'm sure there's research I'm not aware of which that date is based in, but I don't know why that is selected, especially when that largely, if not entirely predates monumental architecture in the region, certainly urbanism and what we'd define as "cities". For reference, Aguada Fenix made headlines for being a impressive example of a very early monumental Maya site with a large platform complex, and that dated to 1000BC. The earliest site often defined as the regipon's first city, the Olmec center of San Lorenzo, dates to 1400BC.

Maybe the 2000BC date is based on that being the earliest examples of any sort of art or iconography with a distinctly Maya style or something of that nature, that'd be my assumption, but if we're putting the emphasis on "Civilization" in "Maya Civilization", it's definitely too early.

However, I don't know enough about... well, any other civ here, to really gauge how their start/end dates are being defined and if they include or exclude periods somewhat analogous to that.

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

Also, looking at that, I feel like the Maya and the Mayapan should be distinguished in your chart, as the version we got is very clearly the former and not the latter.

Although if any Mesoamerican civ gets two eras, looking at this gives me a lot of hope for a Mayapan exploration civ (and Kukulkan leader, woof). Fingers crossed.

I'd love both a Classic and Postclassic Maya civ, but honestly if I had to pick one Era slot for an additional Maya civ in game, i'd probably go with Chan Santa Cruz as a Modern Era civ, simply so that there's a Modern Era Mesoamerican civilization in the game at all.

 

[evonannoredars]

I think it's a little ironic that everybody is saying the chart should exclusively show the Classic Maya, meanwhile the literal Civ icon is based on serpent head sculptures at Chichen Itza, a Postclassic Maya site.

To be fair they did just reuse the same icon from civ 6 (unfortunately!) but it's definitely a roadblock in my mind for percieving it as a Classic Maya civ.

I will say that as somebody into Mesoamerican history and archeology, I have always been a bit iffy about the 2000BC date I often see used as the start of Maya Civilization. To be clear, this is something that does come up in reputable sources, and the Formative/Preclassic period is what I am least familiar with, and i'm sure there's research I'm not aware of which that date is based in, but I don't know why that is selected, especially when that largely, if not entirely predates monumental architecture in the region, certainly urbanism and what we'd define as "cities". For reference, Aguada Fenix made headlines for being a impressive example of a very early monumental Maya site with a large platform complex, and that dated to 1000BC. The earliest site often defined as the regipon's first city, the Olmec center of San Lorenzo, dates to 1400BC.

Maybe the 2000BC date is based on that being the earliest examples of any sort of art or iconography with a distinctly Maya style or something of that nature, that'd be my assumption, but if we're putting the emphasis on "Civilization" in "Maya Civilization", it's definitely too early.

Interesting, my focus on the Maya mostly revolves around the Classic and Postclassic, so don't know very much about where the 2000BC date comes from either - maybe I'll look into it a bit and revise the date on the timeline.

 

[Mudokon Pop]

Maybe the 2000BC date is based on that being the earliest examples of any sort of art or iconography with a distinctly Maya style or something of that nature, that'd be my assumption, but if we're putting the emphasis on "Civilization" in "Maya Civilization", it's definitely too early.

To be fair they did just reuse the same icon from civ 6 (unfortunately!) but it's definitely a roadblock in my mind for percieving it as a Classic Maya civ.

Interesting, my focus on the Maya mostly revolves around the Classic and Postclassic, so don't know very much about where the 2000BC date comes from either - maybe I'll look into it a bit and revise the date on the timeline.

I imagine the 2000 BCE date comes from the Maya culture/ethnic group being identifiable in the archaeological records, perhaps from pottery or vernacular architecture of the common people. Afterall, the monumental urban culture doesn't appear overnight.

But civ games are urban focused so that should be our date - I believe 1000BCE to 600 BCE are the dates I've seen for urban Maya formation.

 

[evonannoredars]

Updated with Ada, Carthage and Great Britain. Labelled the end of Great Britain as 1950 due to the rapid decolonisation of the British empire beginning around then, but might alter that if someone wants to contest that date.

 

[untitledjuan]

Updated with Ada, Carthage and Great Britain. Labelled the end of Great Britain as 1950 due to the rapid decolonisation of the British empire beginning around then, but might alter that if someone wants to contest that date.

I think the 1997 date could also work, which is when Britain ceded its last significant colony: Hong Kong. It was the last British colony to have more than a million people and it was a huge economic and financial city that Britain had no option but to give back to China.