Civ3 GOTM #6 *Spoilers* Thread
- Thread starter rangers85
- Start date
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
I'm also curious how to demand cities from the AI; I have some 170 cities to their 16, 5 times their culture, many more units, etc. The power graph on the histograph shows I'm about 10 times more powerful than them. But when I ask for a city to renegotiate peace, "they would be insulted by that deal." Is there something I'm missing here? Am I supposed to "declare war' and then negotiate for a city, thus ending the war before it starts? Advice from those who have experience with this would be welcome.
Taé Shala
Prince
1. stop => active => peace treaty.
2. demand cities.
this normaly works in my games. But you´ll get only cities with small numbers of population.
2. demand cities.
this normaly works in my games. But you´ll get only cities with small numbers of population.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2001
- Messages
- 2,686
You can demand cities that:
It is best to watch for when the AI founds a new city to renegotiate peace, this way it won't have happiness problems. The resources can be uncovered or not, it doesn't matter. The AI knows they are there from the start of the game. When you check the powergraph, the 2 top AI will never pay cities for renegotiated peace. You can sometimes get cheap techs or gold. The top AI will usually part with about 20 gold at the most. The least powerful AI will often give 2+ cities. The rest will only give 1. I think that power is rated numerically like in the historian pop up (1, 2, 3, 4... ect.), the powergraph just tells you in which order, not magnitude.
- are size 1
- have no resources within their 21 tile radius
- are not the property of one of the top 2 most powerful AI
It is best to watch for when the AI founds a new city to renegotiate peace, this way it won't have happiness problems. The resources can be uncovered or not, it doesn't matter. The AI knows they are there from the start of the game. When you check the powergraph, the 2 top AI will never pay cities for renegotiated peace. You can sometimes get cheap techs or gold. The top AI will usually part with about 20 gold at the most. The least powerful AI will often give 2+ cities. The rest will only give 1. I think that power is rated numerically like in the historian pop up (1, 2, 3, 4... ect.), the powergraph just tells you in which order, not magnitude.
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Hmm... must be the population then. I don't think Japan has any cities smaller than size 5 in my current game...
That might call for a ROP and some massive forest planting to starve some cities down to size!
That might call for a ROP and some massive forest planting to starve some cities down to size!
dikwhit
Warlord
Sullla that is truly evil
I LOVE IT
Whoever would have thought that refoestation could lead to the depopulation of a city. Kill people, become a treehugger
I LOVE ITWhoever would have thought that refoestation could lead to the depopulation of a city. Kill people, become a treehugger
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Well I'll be finishing railroading in about 20-30 more turns, and then my 142 workers will have nothing to do. We can't have them getting lazy, right? 
But I can't take credit for that idea, I got it from the "peaceful war" thread in the war academy. Never tried it, but I think it will be fun in this game.
But I can't take credit for that idea, I got it from the "peaceful war" thread in the war academy. Never tried it, but I think it will be fun in this game.
dikwhit
Warlord
Dont kill trees, kill people with trees,,,,, Al gore would love it
:
: I just wanted to say, mainly because I haven't read about anyone else getting this and because it's the first time I have seen it in any game, has anyone else been able to build the ironworks on this map?
A new source of iron appears on the original starting landmass next to coal but is it worth building it so late in the game (It wont be finished til 1982)-(I building it anway)
A new source of iron appears on the original starting landmass next to coal but is it worth building it so late in the game (It wont be finished til 1982)-(I building it anway)
Attachments
I saw the advisor tell me about building the Iron Works late in the game after I had blitz-conquored a spate of Japanese cities. I was a few turns away from world domination and it was most likely a corruption-paralized city, so I didn't check into it... 
da_greatest
deity
The importance of it depends on what victory you are going for. If you are going for spaceship then it would help build parts, but if you are going for culture or diplomatic it probably won't help as much.
nbarclay
Chieftain
I've found that if I plan my research right, everything else on my spaceship is ready to go by the time I get Laser technology even without an iron works. The trick is to research the techs that go with the most expensive parts first and save Laser for last since the Planetary Party Lounge is dirt cheap (at least as ship parts go).
Another sneaky trick I inferred from a post someone made and tried successfully this time around is that if you have another spaceship part completed the same turn you discover Laser, when the spaceship screen comes up for the other part's completion, you can use the controls on the screen to assign the Planetary Party Lounge to a city before your regular turn starts. If you have a city far enough along producing something else and the timing goes right (and I have no idea how reliable that is, having just tried the trick once), that technique can let you complete and launch the spaceship the SAME turn you discover Laser technology. Cities building battleshps can be pretty good candidates for that maneuver, depending on timing, since battleships are so expensive.
Nathan
Sir Ralph
Dragon slayer
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Messages
- 89
That's my first GOTM submission and my first post at CivFanatics at all. This game was fun and I think I will participate in every game from now on. Here's my story:
Since the land east of the chokepoint is pretty good, I decided to build 3-apart cities. Built a lot of warriors to explore and to kill barbarians and left cities mostly undefended. At warlord, that's possible due to more content citizens. I let all cities build settlers, so they never exceeded size 3 and I didn't have happiness penalties. This way, I soon had settled all land east of the chokepoint and even 2 luxury cities (ivory and silks) behind it. Time to raise diplomacy. Since I was by far the biggest fish at the continent, Babylon and Persia were so friendly to support me with free techs and cities on peace negotiations. I still built almost exclusively settlers and workers and expanded like crazy. The only thing I missed was iron, but I didn't really miss it.
About 500BC I decided that there is no room for more than one civ at the continent. I switched my core production to horsemen and stockpiled them at Babylons borders. 150BC I negotiated peace with Persia again, but cancelled the peace treaty with Babylon. My horsemen captured/razed the whole Babylon till 110AD (see my 10AD save). After the Babylonian campaign and finishing my Forbidden palace in the coreland, I made a free palace jump to an extorted Persian city. Since I just had discovered Chivalry, I upgraded all my brave horsemen to War elephants. I still had no iron (and the Persians 2), but who cares. I hadn't seen much Immortals so far.
My Persian campaign was fought 670-770AD. I quickly moved 2 of my elephants to the iron sources and cut the roads. Then I slaughtered poor Xerxes, wading in blood to my knees. I saw maybe 5 Immortals, rest Spearmen. After he was gone, 2 of my blocking galleys turned north. They didn't sink since I just had discovered Navigation. Soon (790AD) I found China.
After a few turns of diplomacy, I had contact with everybody and a nice map of the northern continent. It's western and eastern subcontinents were tightly settled by Chinese and English+Germans. The huge mid part was only half settled by the Japanese. The Zulus were almost gone, since everybody fought them. They were the only civ wiped out without my participation. Soon they were wiped out. I sent lots of Caravels with settlers and soon the southern part of the other continent was mine. I had 6 own luxuries now.
My next target were the Japanese. They were far behind in technology (just like everybody else) and an easy ride for my new Cavalrists. They had no Samurai, since they didn't have Chivalry yet. I captured the whole Japan and settled the gaps tightly (3-apart) to prevent sneak-ins. The Japanese campaign took most of the 14th century.
In the 15th century I was busy wiping out China. They were a pain, since they had lots of Riders and unaccessable resource tiles. But my whole coreland was building fresh Cavalries, and the attack never was about to falter. 1495, China was gone. I razed most of the cities, since I had roughly 50% of the landmass settled and didn't want to trigger Domination. The only city I captured was a gem city at a peninsula with much mountains, good to defend from those annoying Riders. The Chinese workers I used to plant forests in my new Western national park.
After I founded an incense city in former North China, I had all 8 luxuries. That was good, since I still was a Republic. I didn't have discovered Democracy, no use for war weary riots. Republic is cool, happy citizens turned content but that was all. Meanwhile I had roughly 1 era tech lead. Germany just had discovered Military tradition, I was 1 turn apart from Motorized Transportation. My forces outweighted the German and English far, both in quality and quantity. I had over 100 cities (lazy to count them though), both Germany and England had roughly 20. In this hopeless for him situation, Herr Bismarck declared war on me. What the heck? A nice way to commit suicide. I decided to skip England as my next target, and flooded Germany with most of my 140 Cavalries. No, wait, lots of them remained in former China as park rangers, to fight the white-clothed campers, which were occasionally popping up there and bullying my peaceful Chinese wood planters.
Soon my 11 Transports had landed 100 Cavalries and 100 Tanks in Germany. Far more than I really needed. It was a matter of a few turns and the German coreland was overrun. To access the German jungle cities, I had to declare war on England. Nothing could stop me. But I was not only destructive. The German and English workers were building my Eastern national park now.
In 1620AD was only a single English city (IIRC it was Brighton) at an island left. I already had build hordes of Privateers, to block it and to milk the game. But oh well, to be honest I got a bit tired of it. So I landed 8 cavalries to finish the city. I needed only one of them though (there was only one Spearman inside).
Conquest victory in 1625AD.
Since the land east of the chokepoint is pretty good, I decided to build 3-apart cities. Built a lot of warriors to explore and to kill barbarians and left cities mostly undefended. At warlord, that's possible due to more content citizens. I let all cities build settlers, so they never exceeded size 3 and I didn't have happiness penalties. This way, I soon had settled all land east of the chokepoint and even 2 luxury cities (ivory and silks) behind it. Time to raise diplomacy. Since I was by far the biggest fish at the continent, Babylon and Persia were so friendly to support me with free techs and cities on peace negotiations. I still built almost exclusively settlers and workers and expanded like crazy. The only thing I missed was iron, but I didn't really miss it.
About 500BC I decided that there is no room for more than one civ at the continent. I switched my core production to horsemen and stockpiled them at Babylons borders. 150BC I negotiated peace with Persia again, but cancelled the peace treaty with Babylon. My horsemen captured/razed the whole Babylon till 110AD (see my 10AD save). After the Babylonian campaign and finishing my Forbidden palace in the coreland, I made a free palace jump to an extorted Persian city. Since I just had discovered Chivalry, I upgraded all my brave horsemen to War elephants. I still had no iron (and the Persians 2), but who cares. I hadn't seen much Immortals so far.
My Persian campaign was fought 670-770AD. I quickly moved 2 of my elephants to the iron sources and cut the roads. Then I slaughtered poor Xerxes, wading in blood to my knees. I saw maybe 5 Immortals, rest Spearmen. After he was gone, 2 of my blocking galleys turned north. They didn't sink since I just had discovered Navigation. Soon (790AD) I found China.
After a few turns of diplomacy, I had contact with everybody and a nice map of the northern continent. It's western and eastern subcontinents were tightly settled by Chinese and English+Germans. The huge mid part was only half settled by the Japanese. The Zulus were almost gone, since everybody fought them. They were the only civ wiped out without my participation. Soon they were wiped out. I sent lots of Caravels with settlers and soon the southern part of the other continent was mine. I had 6 own luxuries now.
My next target were the Japanese. They were far behind in technology (just like everybody else) and an easy ride for my new Cavalrists. They had no Samurai, since they didn't have Chivalry yet. I captured the whole Japan and settled the gaps tightly (3-apart) to prevent sneak-ins. The Japanese campaign took most of the 14th century.
In the 15th century I was busy wiping out China. They were a pain, since they had lots of Riders and unaccessable resource tiles. But my whole coreland was building fresh Cavalries, and the attack never was about to falter. 1495, China was gone. I razed most of the cities, since I had roughly 50% of the landmass settled and didn't want to trigger Domination. The only city I captured was a gem city at a peninsula with much mountains, good to defend from those annoying Riders. The Chinese workers I used to plant forests in my new Western national park.
After I founded an incense city in former North China, I had all 8 luxuries. That was good, since I still was a Republic. I didn't have discovered Democracy, no use for war weary riots. Republic is cool, happy citizens turned content but that was all. Meanwhile I had roughly 1 era tech lead. Germany just had discovered Military tradition, I was 1 turn apart from Motorized Transportation. My forces outweighted the German and English far, both in quality and quantity. I had over 100 cities (lazy to count them though), both Germany and England had roughly 20. In this hopeless for him situation, Herr Bismarck declared war on me. What the heck? A nice way to commit suicide. I decided to skip England as my next target, and flooded Germany with most of my 140 Cavalries. No, wait, lots of them remained in former China as park rangers
, to fight the white-clothed campers, which were occasionally popping up there and bullying my peaceful Chinese wood planters.Soon my 11 Transports had landed 100 Cavalries and 100 Tanks in Germany. Far more than I really needed. It was a matter of a few turns and the German coreland was overrun. To access the German jungle cities, I had to declare war on England. Nothing could stop me. But I was not only destructive. The German and English workers were building my Eastern national park now.
In 1620AD was only a single English city (IIRC it was Brighton) at an island left. I already had build hordes of Privateers, to block it and to milk the game. But oh well, to be honest I got a bit tired of it. So I landed 8 cavalries to finish the city. I needed only one of them though (there was only one Spearman inside).
Conquest victory in 1625AD.
China met with a much harsher fate in my game than in yours. For some reason, they attack part of my force that I had in Indian-occupied Germany, and through a complex web of MPP's, (I had one with England, England had one with Zulu, Zulu had one with Germany, and they with Japan) the whole world ended up at war with China:ripper:
Basically, it was a contest to see who could grab as much land as quickly as possible.
Just submitted my first GOTM. Actually, i tried last months but got whoopped big time and gave it up.
From reading other posts, i guess i won't win anything, but it was a fun game to play.
I screwed up by overestimating the AI on warlord level since i am use to monarch. Soooo... i advanced slowly in the beginning because i was waiting for the AI to do my research. Once i decided that wasn't a good idea, i moved right along.
Deciding which victory to go for was a problem as well. It became obvious to me that i would not be competitive, so i just played a builder game and went cultural. Got it much earlier than others i have read about, but i doubt it will be anything spectacular.
Hopefully i didn't pick up any bad habits for my next game on monarch. Oh... the next game will be different anyway... new patch is out!!
From reading other posts, i guess i won't win anything, but it was a fun game to play.
I screwed up by overestimating the AI on warlord level since i am use to monarch. Soooo... i advanced slowly in the beginning because i was waiting for the AI to do my research. Once i decided that wasn't a good idea, i moved right along.
Deciding which victory to go for was a problem as well. It became obvious to me that i would not be competitive, so i just played a builder game and went cultural. Got it much earlier than others i have read about, but i doubt it will be anything spectacular.
Hopefully i didn't pick up any bad habits for my next game on monarch. Oh... the next game will be different anyway... new patch is out!!
Beard Rinker
Warlord
The Strategy
My goal this month was the new award, fastest spaceship victory.
The biggest bottleneck in a spaceship victory is research. Production is seldom the problem as by the time it's possible to build the space ship, there are usually several high production cities available.
With this in mind, my strategy revolved mostly around ways of researching as fast as possible. The main points of my strategy are as follows:
Ancient Times
This month was any easy map and an easy level. From the start I had doubts about my primary strategy of getting the AI to help in research. Fat chance on warlord level.
My first focus as usual was founding as many cities as possible. Since my goal was research and it was warlord level, my cities were not built ICS style. I wanted all cities to grow to their maximum potential so they were laid out with minimal overlap.
For the first while most cities produced warriors or settlers. Settler production was timed so a settler was produced as the city hit size 3. The warriors were useful for finding huts and preventing my neighbors from becoming too aggressive.
Throughout this build out process my city count was always around double the Persians and triple the Babylonians. Research at this time wasn't a priority. It was kept at a minimal level for 1 technology every 40 turns and always on the most expensive technology. Several technologies were obtained through trading and 1 was found in a hut.
By the time expansion was nearing completion on the home continent, I had claimed all of the area near the start position and a strip of cities between the Persians and Babylonians. I had also managed to claim spices, ivory and silk.
Middle Ages
I completed the Great Lighthouse wonder around the start of the middle ages and set out in search of the other civilizations. It didn't take long to find the Chinese then buy contact to all others.
Keeping with my strategy, I made sure everyone had contact with everyone else and everyone was on par technologically. I also began doing my own research starting with the most expensive technology. My hope was the AI would research the cheap ones and I'd trade for them.
Through exploration and obtaining maps, I discovered some unclaimed dyes, gems, furs and wines. I was able to claim the gems, dyes and furs but didn't bother with the wines. This gave me 6 luxuries. With luck, I would be able to trade for the other two with the discovery of Magnetism.
I increased my research spending as cash permitted and eventually started researching the cheap technologies. The AI was hardly helping out at all, mostly adding unrequired technologies from the previous age. By the end of this age I was researching a technology every 4 turns.
Due to my quick start, my culture was far higher than everyone else. This resulted in about 4 or 5 cities defecting to me during the course of the game. In most cases, I either refused the city or gave it right back. My empire was right around the optimal number and I didn't want the addition of some poorly developed city on the outskirts of my empire causing empire wide corruption. I later learned this is not how corruption is calculated and should have kept them.
Industrial Ages
This is the age where I gave up dragging the AI along in the tech race. Their research rate was beyond stupid. Any slower and they would be forgetting technologies.
At the start of the age, either the Germans or Babylonians discovered Nationalism. Scientific civilizations get one free advance at the start of each age. Between the 7 of them the only other technologies they discovered in this age were Espionage, Communism and Sanitation and these weren't required technologies.
I was able to discover a technology every four turns throughout this entire age. I made one researching detour to get the unrequired Sanatation technology, but this was needed to continue my research momentum. With hospitals, my cities could grow to their maximum potential increasing my income by about 2/3. The AI's did eventually discover this one but I'm not sure I could have waited. Half way through the industrial age I was barely able to afford to keep the research rate at one technology every four turns. The extra income as a result of hospitals made the difference.
With the discovery of Scientific Method, I began construction of The Theory of Evolution wonder. There was no danger in losing this to one of the AI's as they were several technologies behind. This wonder gives two free advances; the one currently being researched and one other. To maximize the benefit, I timed this wonder to complete one turn after discovering a technology. I also started research on the most expensive technology and set the research level to zero for the one turn while waiting. This gave me a bunch of gold and 2 expensive technologies. I'm not sure what happens first when a wonder is one turn from completion and you are one turn from a discovery. I might have been able to squeeze another turn out of this.
Although I had given up keeping all opponents even in technology, I was selling technologies to the highest bidder. The extra gold was banked for the modern age when technologies got more expensive. I also brought the Germans up to par with me in research towards the end of the age. My reasoning was to trade for the free technology they would get once they hit the modern age.
Around the end of the industrial age, I was becoming concerned that I wouldn't be able to continue to research one technology every four turns in the modern age. I had a considerable amount of gold saved up, but you can only set the research rate to 100%. What I needed was a larger income, even if all of it is lost to corruption.
After reading Alexman's thread on corruption I learned that corruption due to the number of cities depends on the number of cities closer to the capital, not the total number of cities. This means adding cities to the outer part of the empire should have no effect on the core cities. It also means I probably could have a much larger empire and expect a reasonable return from the extra cities.
The obvious way to increase my income was to take out the Babylonians. My military was far superior to theirs both numerically and technologically so the outcome was never in doubt. The Babylonians were destroyed in 2 turns without using any ROP violation tricks. Casualty count: 1 cavalry. This netted me additional 7 cities giving me 30 in total.
I had two elite warriors from barbarian attacks at the beginning of the game so I though I'd take a shot at getting a leader. They had two bowmen standing around so I pounded them down to 1 hp and killed them with the elite warriors. No luck though, I'll likely go the entire game without a leader.
Modern Times
I entered modern times with over 22,000 gold banked. However, upon starting my first modern age research project, I discovered it would take 5 turns at 100% research to learn the cheapest technology. Allot of good that banked gold is doing.
I brought the Germans into the modern age by selling the required technologies to them. They got their free technology, Rocketry, which I could buy outright or trade for once a few discoveries were made.
I managed to bring my research time down to four turns by joining workers to my newly liberated Babylonian cities but the bigger problem remained. This was the cheapest technology and I would have to increase my income substantially to continue this pace.
Time was of the essence, I hoped to complete the game in 37 turns (9 techs * 4 turns + 1 turn for ss). Nearing panic, I considered my options:
I proceeded to use my saved gold to rush improvements in the conquered Babylonian cities. I also pre-built research labs in most cities in anticipation of the Computers technology. Once it was discovered, I completed the SETI Program wonder and had research labs in most cities the next turn. The added income enabled me to research techs every four turns for the remainder of the game.
To my surprise, the Germans researched a required technology on their own. Perhaps favoring one or two AI opponents is a better approach for getting the AI to do some useful research. From this point on, I gave my technology to the Germans and traded for any they discovered but with only 7 required technologies left they weren't able to help any more.
The only potential glitch came two turns before the last spaceship technology. For no apparent reason, the Zulu's moved a large force within the borders of a remote city of mine. Their intent was obviously hostile and they declared war when I told them to leave. My concern was not for the town, but that the Japanese would be dragged into a war against me as they were supplying aluminum.
I contacted the Japanese and gave them whatever they wanted for an alliance against the Zulus. For good measure, I did the same with everyone else.
Two turns later I discovered the last spaceship and one turn after that my spaceship was launched. The Zulus never did attack, seems they had bigger problems on their other borders. I never fired a shot during this brief late war, as there really was no point.
Throughout this entire game, I was at war for only 5 turns. My only active war was the 2-turn conquest of the Babylonians. As far as I could tell, none of the AIs were at war until the last few turns of the game although the Zulu's must have fought some early battle as their invasion force contained an army of warriors.
Conclusion
This month's game was fun but not too challenging. There was never a question of if I would win, just when. With this map and this level I don't think any strategy would be difficult. However, this was a nice change of pace.
Some improvements on this strategy would be to grab more land at the start and keep most cities won by culture. An early conquest of the Babylonians would have been beneficial. The weaker civilizations do not contribute on any level and if their land is useful it's better off under my rule.
On warlord level, I would have been better off favoring one or two AI opponents and leaving all others in the dust. Having them all equal seemed to translate into them all being equally useless. The only time they added research was at the start of an age and when one of them was ahead of the others. On higher levels, having most or all of the AI opponents on par may be a viable strategy.
A higher difficulty level would add an interesting dynamic to this strategy. You want to keep the AI opponents on par technology-wise so they can contribute while still launching the spaceship before they do. If you leave them behind or milk them too much it costs unrecoverable turns of research. On the other hand, if you keep them at par you run the risk of invasion or losing the space race.
My goal this month was the new award, fastest spaceship victory.
The biggest bottleneck in a spaceship victory is research. Production is seldom the problem as by the time it's possible to build the space ship, there are usually several high production cities available.
With this in mind, my strategy revolved mostly around ways of researching as fast as possible. The main points of my strategy are as follows:
- AI Help - This could be the best way to speed up research. The fastest I can research is one technology every four turns. With several viable opponents, it should be possible to get technology quicker than this through trading.
- Optimal Size - My plan was to grow to the optimal number of cities then stop; focusing on research and generating gold for research. Growing beyond the optimal number of cities has diminishing returns and may draw my resources away from research.
- Wonders - Priority wonders are ones that directly help research (i.e. Copernicus's Observatory, Newton's University, Theory of Evolution and SETI Program) then ones that help indirectly (The Pyramids, Hoover Dam, etc). Wonders like The Great Wall and Universal Suffrage are of little value.
- Pre-building Key Items - Key city improvements and wonders should be pre-built as much as possible before the required technology is discovered. This will maximize their value and in the case of wonders, minimize the chance of losing a key wonder. This strategy is especially useful for the last couple of spaceship components. Ideally, the spaceship can be completed the turn after the last required technology is discovered. This strategy makes The Manhattan Project a worthwhile wonder as ICBMs work well for pre-building spaceship components.
Ancient Times
This month was any easy map and an easy level. From the start I had doubts about my primary strategy of getting the AI to help in research. Fat chance on warlord level.
My first focus as usual was founding as many cities as possible. Since my goal was research and it was warlord level, my cities were not built ICS style. I wanted all cities to grow to their maximum potential so they were laid out with minimal overlap.
For the first while most cities produced warriors or settlers. Settler production was timed so a settler was produced as the city hit size 3. The warriors were useful for finding huts and preventing my neighbors from becoming too aggressive.
Throughout this build out process my city count was always around double the Persians and triple the Babylonians. Research at this time wasn't a priority. It was kept at a minimal level for 1 technology every 40 turns and always on the most expensive technology. Several technologies were obtained through trading and 1 was found in a hut.
By the time expansion was nearing completion on the home continent, I had claimed all of the area near the start position and a strip of cities between the Persians and Babylonians. I had also managed to claim spices, ivory and silk.
Middle Ages
I completed the Great Lighthouse wonder around the start of the middle ages and set out in search of the other civilizations. It didn't take long to find the Chinese then buy contact to all others.
Keeping with my strategy, I made sure everyone had contact with everyone else and everyone was on par technologically. I also began doing my own research starting with the most expensive technology. My hope was the AI would research the cheap ones and I'd trade for them.
Through exploration and obtaining maps, I discovered some unclaimed dyes, gems, furs and wines. I was able to claim the gems, dyes and furs but didn't bother with the wines. This gave me 6 luxuries. With luck, I would be able to trade for the other two with the discovery of Magnetism.
I increased my research spending as cash permitted and eventually started researching the cheap technologies. The AI was hardly helping out at all, mostly adding unrequired technologies from the previous age. By the end of this age I was researching a technology every 4 turns.
Due to my quick start, my culture was far higher than everyone else. This resulted in about 4 or 5 cities defecting to me during the course of the game. In most cases, I either refused the city or gave it right back. My empire was right around the optimal number and I didn't want the addition of some poorly developed city on the outskirts of my empire causing empire wide corruption. I later learned this is not how corruption is calculated and should have kept them.
Industrial Ages
This is the age where I gave up dragging the AI along in the tech race. Their research rate was beyond stupid. Any slower and they would be forgetting technologies.
At the start of the age, either the Germans or Babylonians discovered Nationalism. Scientific civilizations get one free advance at the start of each age. Between the 7 of them the only other technologies they discovered in this age were Espionage, Communism and Sanitation and these weren't required technologies.
I was able to discover a technology every four turns throughout this entire age. I made one researching detour to get the unrequired Sanatation technology, but this was needed to continue my research momentum. With hospitals, my cities could grow to their maximum potential increasing my income by about 2/3. The AI's did eventually discover this one but I'm not sure I could have waited. Half way through the industrial age I was barely able to afford to keep the research rate at one technology every four turns. The extra income as a result of hospitals made the difference.
With the discovery of Scientific Method, I began construction of The Theory of Evolution wonder. There was no danger in losing this to one of the AI's as they were several technologies behind. This wonder gives two free advances; the one currently being researched and one other. To maximize the benefit, I timed this wonder to complete one turn after discovering a technology. I also started research on the most expensive technology and set the research level to zero for the one turn while waiting. This gave me a bunch of gold and 2 expensive technologies. I'm not sure what happens first when a wonder is one turn from completion and you are one turn from a discovery. I might have been able to squeeze another turn out of this.
Although I had given up keeping all opponents even in technology, I was selling technologies to the highest bidder. The extra gold was banked for the modern age when technologies got more expensive. I also brought the Germans up to par with me in research towards the end of the age. My reasoning was to trade for the free technology they would get once they hit the modern age.
Around the end of the industrial age, I was becoming concerned that I wouldn't be able to continue to research one technology every four turns in the modern age. I had a considerable amount of gold saved up, but you can only set the research rate to 100%. What I needed was a larger income, even if all of it is lost to corruption.
After reading Alexman's thread on corruption I learned that corruption due to the number of cities depends on the number of cities closer to the capital, not the total number of cities. This means adding cities to the outer part of the empire should have no effect on the core cities. It also means I probably could have a much larger empire and expect a reasonable return from the extra cities.
The obvious way to increase my income was to take out the Babylonians. My military was far superior to theirs both numerically and technologically so the outcome was never in doubt. The Babylonians were destroyed in 2 turns without using any ROP violation tricks. Casualty count: 1 cavalry. This netted me additional 7 cities giving me 30 in total.
I had two elite warriors from barbarian attacks at the beginning of the game so I though I'd take a shot at getting a leader. They had two bowmen standing around so I pounded them down to 1 hp and killed them with the elite warriors. No luck though, I'll likely go the entire game without a leader.
Modern Times
I entered modern times with over 22,000 gold banked. However, upon starting my first modern age research project, I discovered it would take 5 turns at 100% research to learn the cheapest technology. Allot of good that banked gold is doing.
I brought the Germans into the modern age by selling the required technologies to them. They got their free technology, Rocketry, which I could buy outright or trade for once a few discoveries were made.
I managed to bring my research time down to four turns by joining workers to my newly liberated Babylonian cities but the bigger problem remained. This was the cheapest technology and I would have to increase my income substantially to continue this pace.
Time was of the essence, I hoped to complete the game in 37 turns (9 techs * 4 turns + 1 turn for ss). Nearing panic, I considered my options:
- Warfare - I could easily take several cities from the Persians. I wouldn't be able to take all of them quickly as the Persian empire was large. This option had many risks including the possibility of bringing all countries into war, falling into anarchy during the war, production diverted from the spaceship, and the time it takes to develop the new cities. At this point I didn't know where the aluminum or uranium was and I may need to trade for them.
- Rush Expansion - The conquered Babylonian cities were not fully developed and there were a few places in my empire some cities could be squeezed in. My massive bankroll and large production capacity could have these cities fully developed and populated quickly although I'm not sure they could contribute quick enough.
- Computers - This technology gives me the SETI Program wonder and research labs. I had already prebuilt the SETI Program and could complete it within a few turns of the discovery. If I research this technology first and prebuild research labs everywhere I could have research labs in most cities about 5 or
6 turns into the modern age. Since the research rate is at 100%, this would effectively increase my income by 50%. This sounds like a winner.
I proceeded to use my saved gold to rush improvements in the conquered Babylonian cities. I also pre-built research labs in most cities in anticipation of the Computers technology. Once it was discovered, I completed the SETI Program wonder and had research labs in most cities the next turn. The added income enabled me to research techs every four turns for the remainder of the game.
To my surprise, the Germans researched a required technology on their own. Perhaps favoring one or two AI opponents is a better approach for getting the AI to do some useful research. From this point on, I gave my technology to the Germans and traded for any they discovered but with only 7 required technologies left they weren't able to help any more.
The only potential glitch came two turns before the last spaceship technology. For no apparent reason, the Zulu's moved a large force within the borders of a remote city of mine. Their intent was obviously hostile and they declared war when I told them to leave. My concern was not for the town, but that the Japanese would be dragged into a war against me as they were supplying aluminum.
I contacted the Japanese and gave them whatever they wanted for an alliance against the Zulus. For good measure, I did the same with everyone else.
Two turns later I discovered the last spaceship and one turn after that my spaceship was launched. The Zulus never did attack, seems they had bigger problems on their other borders. I never fired a shot during this brief late war, as there really was no point.
Throughout this entire game, I was at war for only 5 turns. My only active war was the 2-turn conquest of the Babylonians. As far as I could tell, none of the AIs were at war until the last few turns of the game although the Zulu's must have fought some early battle as their invasion force contained an army of warriors.
Conclusion
This month's game was fun but not too challenging. There was never a question of if I would win, just when. With this map and this level I don't think any strategy would be difficult. However, this was a nice change of pace.
Some improvements on this strategy would be to grab more land at the start and keep most cities won by culture. An early conquest of the Babylonians would have been beneficial. The weaker civilizations do not contribute on any level and if their land is useful it's better off under my rule.
On warlord level, I would have been better off favoring one or two AI opponents and leaving all others in the dust. Having them all equal seemed to translate into them all being equally useless. The only time they added research was at the start of an age and when one of them was ahead of the others. On higher levels, having most or all of the AI opponents on par may be a viable strategy.
A higher difficulty level would add an interesting dynamic to this strategy. You want to keep the AI opponents on par technology-wise so they can contribute while still launching the spaceship before they do. If you leave them behind or milk them too much it costs unrecoverable turns of research. On the other hand, if you keep them at par you run the risk of invasion or losing the space race.
BillChin
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 494
My game: I decide at the start to go for a one city cultural win (20,000 culture in one city). I build one settler then use the capital for wonders and cultural improvement. The first settler city is used to build the rest of the empire. I build the Forbidden Palace at the choke point. As the game progresses, I get bored, and launch a war with War Elephants. I figure I might get a leader or two to rush some wonders. I do get one leader as I conquer the home continent.
The Zulu wipe out the Chinese early, and also build the Great Wall. I think I miss out on one other wonder, but forget which one.
In 1505 A. D. the capital reaches 10,000 culture, half way to the goal, chugging along with about 90 per turn. I see some open land where the Zulu used to be with three luxuries. I send some settlers to give me something to do while waiting for the cultural victory. Tech is going fast with all the wonders, so I start building a spaceship. It is a tight race as to whether I can finish the spaceship before I get a cultural victory. Total culture wins out (100,000 for the empire), two turns from the spaceship, and 24 turns from the One City Cultural victory.
I expect my score will be middle of the pack (as usual). I did not think I could learn much from a Warlord game, but I think I did learn some useful techniques that can be applied on higher difficulty levels.
The Zulu wipe out the Chinese early, and also build the Great Wall. I think I miss out on one other wonder, but forget which one.
In 1505 A. D. the capital reaches 10,000 culture, half way to the goal, chugging along with about 90 per turn. I see some open land where the Zulu used to be with three luxuries. I send some settlers to give me something to do while waiting for the cultural victory. Tech is going fast with all the wonders, so I start building a spaceship. It is a tight race as to whether I can finish the spaceship before I get a cultural victory. Total culture wins out (100,000 for the empire), two turns from the spaceship, and 24 turns from the One City Cultural victory.
I expect my score will be middle of the pack (as usual). I did not think I could learn much from a Warlord game, but I think I did learn some useful techniques that can be applied on higher difficulty levels.
Crunchy
Chieftain
I always find it irritating that you can't launch the ship without the Party Lounge. I mean come on, they can just invite people back to their room can't they?
"Party! Party!"
"Party! Party!"
Zachriel
Kaiser
This is a little different than my last GOTM. India is a great Civ and those War Elephants are a lot of fun. Join me as we seek enlightenment.
http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/gotm6/
(Graphic intensive website. Best viewed in 1024x768 resolution.)
http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/gotm6/
(Graphic intensive website. Best viewed in 1024x768 resolution.)
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