Civ4 GOTM 48 First Spoiler - 500 AD

[Erkon]

GOTM 48 First Spoiler

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in GOTM 48, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have reached at least 500 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Please do not disclose ANY events or information gained post 500 AD.
• Please do not reveal any landmasses or civilizations not reachable with galleys.

What was your reaction to the map? How did you adjust to it? Did you get frustrated or inspired?

 

[toller pretzl]

I'm going for a military victory in this one. So far I haven't had any special results in military victories, so potentially I have a lot to gain there.

> What was your reaction to the map? How did you adjust to it?

I assume that what is meant here is : the lack of many great city sites.
I think that suited my playing style. I tend to stick with just the capital for a long time, making the Oracle slingshot for CS. I settled in place and cottaged the flood plains (I'm not a big fan of farming).

After that I built 7 more cities (including the one on the little island) and went very straightforward towards astronomy. I didn't find an opportunity for any special tricks, like using Great People to research. After the initial Great Prophet I was lucky to get a Great Scientist, for an Academy in my capital that was doing most of the work.

For settling the island, the foody city to the west provided all the workers and settlers, while the capital obliged with anti-barb-patrols and workboats.

 

[damnrunner]

Bad early play. I hate islands.

Moved the settler found lots of desert and founded my capitol back at the starting location on turn 3.

I built my 2nd city in the middle of the island near the copper. Not really sure why I did this. In test games it was important to get out and grab some land early on - but by this point i already knew I was on an island. I should have built city 2 at the 3 seafood location and used it to pump out workers and settlers.

I got oracle in the capitol and used it for Metal casting. With early forges I was able to get the colossus. With more foresight I probably could have used the stone + forges + industrious trait to quickly chop/whip the pyramids, but I did not really think this through. I was gunning for early warmongering and was total mentally unprepared for a peaceful start.

My economy is chugging along slowly toward Astro. I have a good number of cottages on the island - but with the food resources it would be more efficient to run a SE if I could use Representation from having gotten the pyramids. Alas was not to be.

Got a prophet from the oracle - and had to settle it. I had hoped to use it to found Christianity but missed out on it.

 

[Fluroscent]

Settled 1E, on the forest, because I thought it would open up space to the left. Didnt matter much. Was dissapointed to see the last "floodplain" being a plain desert.

Quickly learned that we were on an island, and only one small coastal path with potential. A workboat confirmed the isolatedness.

Always hard to play isolated, I never know whether to beeline optics to make contacts or not.
If the AI are peaceful and in early contact, it is really hard to keep up without early optics, but if there are other isolated civs and warmongers slowing down a continent, it can be fine to remain in the dark for a while.

This game, I wanted to do a military victory, so I decided to postpone optics/astro, and shoot more or less straight for Oxford, to enable a tech advantage at some point. I have 6 cities on the island, and not going to build more, save for the small island.

Island is not too impressive, so decided to cottage the capital, and farm/mine the rest.

Lyons at the 2xclam+fish functioning as a GP farm, and I got my academy in Paris.

Oracled CS (founded confu on the way), because it is so easy in vanilla without math required, that it seems mandatory to do it almost every game. Also built GLH, even if it is pretty weak without foreign trade. Currently working on Colossus, and the other cities are struggling to complete libraries in time for education.

The worst thing is the lack of health. I have -3 in Paris at size 8, so I am semi-regretting not slotting in compass somewhere, but I dont even have iron working yet. I didnt count on cows and sheep being unworkable such a long time, due to them being in the outer ring of, the cities that have to build libraries for culture, and confu not spreading there yet.

Hopefully I can work my way to some military advantage and invade someone. Assimilating one civ should be enough to catapult me to the lead.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

but with the food resources it

There were food resources on the island?!?!? Did I miss something in my game?

 

[damnrunner]

There was food - just all seafood. Capital had 2 sea resources. City due W had 3 seafood. City halfway up the E coast had 2 seafood. City in the far NE had 1 seafood and sheep. Island with silver had 2 seafood.

That is really not too bad. I am very curious if anyone built the pyramids and started running representation and caste system? With lighthouses and a few farms you could easily have 3 or 4 scientists in each of these cities. I am pretty sure that is a lot more science than I was producing with marginal cottages. Also getting Great Scientist early on would have been far more useful than the Great prophets my oracle was producing.

My biggest limiting factor was the dearth of happiness resources. I made good use of monarchy but that was a tech detour from astro which also could have been avoided if I had focused on the Pyramids.

 

[adrianj]

GOTM48 - Contender Save

Lots of interesting discussion about the starting location, and the value of moving the settler around. I'm inclined to move the starting settler, because clams for food are kind of underwheling I think. Here goes..


*** Session 1: 4000 BC -> 2000 BC ***

The warrior moved NW onto the plains hill, revealing some fish. Hmmm, maybe that's useful, I dunno. I'm moving the settler 2NE onto the desert hill. Risky, but I'm hoping to see some better food resource. Hmm, riverside desert that's not a floodplain, dumb. And the rest of the desert also not good. Err... what to do here? I don't want to settle W of the start, since that blocks a future city claiming the fish, so I move the settler back to settle in place, on turn 2.

The warrior is scoping out the rest of the southwestern peninsula, and there is definitely a decent city there, probably GP Farm.

I considered first tech Fishing, first build a warrior to grow the city. But the Clams aren't that great, I'd rather have a worker first and farm the floodplains for the start, and chop the forests. So tech path: Mining -> BW.

Stone in the Northwest. Pyramids?

It appears we are isolated. After BW tech is Fishing. I want to send out an exploring workboat or two to confirm this suspicion. I revolt to slavery as well.

So, at least I don't really need to worry too much about AI grabbing my land. So expansion can be gradual. I may need to tech all on my own though. So Pyramids is now a real desire. Mysticism -> Masonry after Fishing. After 1st worker build was Warrior -> workboat -> workboat, with 2 whips in there. The first workboat is scouting towards the island in the NW. The island is useful for a city, but not for meeting other AI.

After Masonry = Sailing. The lightouses will be useful, but I'm not sure about the Great Lighthouse, since I don't have AI trade routes. But I will have an overseas trade route with the silver island city which could be lucrative, but that's only 1 route.

*** Session 2: 2000 BC -> 175 BC ***

I'm thinking about city #2. By the stone seems the most obvious, to connect the resource and build the Pyramids. But the only food resource near there is the cows, which would require a border expansion to get. I'm thinking that for now, I'll get city #2 by the western fish.

In 985 BC I find from some famous historian that I am the most backward in tech. Sheesh!

I'm isolated. So I would like to have a religion, so my target is Code of Laws. I'm not even trying for the Oracle. Damn, Confu gone in 700 BC, same turn as Oracle - probably no coincidence. Ignoring Oracle was probably not wise.

After Paris has finished a galley and the 3rd settler, the Pyramids build begins. I'm pretty nervous about it too.

Oh no 2 bad RNG results with a barbarian archer, and my stone city is about to be razed. This game is turning out quite poorly... By giving up a worker as bait, I manage to save the city. The city's citizens give a very subdued cheer. A newly built warrior finally kills the wounded archer.

Orleans has 2 scientists assigned, I want to bulb Philosophy and found Taoism at least. And then 2 turns after writing that, Taoism has been founded in a distant land. I'm 3 turns from finishing the Pyramids... and Yay, I manage to get that one in 175 BC! Something is working for me

*** Session 3: 175 BC -> 500 AD ***

Meeting some AI to try and trade tech is my priority now. My first GS builds an Academy in Paris.

I had a go building the Hanging Gardens, but was beaten to it with 4 turns remaining.

Now at 500 AD I have 5 cities (pop 7, 6, 5, 5, 1) and another settler in production. Researching Machinery with 14 turns remaining on it.

Overall, I'm not particularly happy with my progress, but we'll see how things look once I have caravels.

 

[Conquistador 63]

What was your reaction to the map? How did you adjust to it? Did you get frustrated or inspired?

I have to confess that being a builder at heart, I like isolated starts. It's not a frequent situation in GOTM's, so I was happy with the map Erkon gave us.

I also confess that I've been growing increasingly fond of settling in place in XOTM's. Am I getting just too lazy? This time I even settled before moving the warrior! Early exploration showed that we had some potential for using a specialist economy, especially in the 3-seafood site. Lightbulbing my way to Astro seemed the way to go.

Getting CS from Oracle CS would ruin that plan, so I decided to go for the Pyramids instead - having stone just made it more obvious in my mind. After a bad experience losing a key wonder by 1 turn in a recent game, I decided to avoid risks and rather beelined to it (city2 founded on top of stone), getting it 895BC. The only other WW I built was the GLib (125AD) in the GPfarm, with the GE gained from Mids. GP farm also gained the NE, but as late as 380AD. At size 7 it was running 4 scientists (plus the 2 free from GLib) in 500AD.

I did an OK job with fogbusting and had to kill only 8 animals or barb warriors - no losses, last combat in 1570BC. But that sense of security probably made me expand too slowly, in 500AD I had only 5 cities/26pop, of the planned 7 in starting area, including the silver island. Techwise I had compass, was starting to research calendar (due in 7t) and optics by hand and lightbulb Mach (1GS) and Astro (2GS). At that time I had 1 GS sleeping (no academy, probably a mistake), next one due in 10t.

 

[toller pretzl]

Interesting post, C63. Only now do I understand some of the others who complained that they didn't follow that strategy. Nice touch to settle on the stone, I'm trying to remember if that city has a food resource ?

 

[Conquistador 63]

^No food, I just cottaged every grass tile there, chopping or whipping basic stuff (gran/lib). IIRC nearby cows went to a northern city by the horse/furs.

 

[kcd_swede]

What was your reaction to the map? How did you adjust to it? Did you get frustrated or inspired?

My reaction? Oh crap... an isolated start! I'd better get the GLH and Colossus up and have some hope of meeting AI before I'm irrecoverably far behind in tech!

I missed both those by a few turns each, btw. Same with the P'Mids despite settling next to stone and having stone online quickly. I was bummed that stone didn't speed up GLH. I'm stupid I guess. I did get the GLib. Thats it.

Cottaged up the capitol, but ran lots of Sci specialists anyhow. No religions, so had to head towards Monarchy before could go for Optics. There wasn't much cottagable land outside the capitol either, and that really hurt.

I generally sucked up the early game badly... expanded too rapidly and ran about 30% slider. At least this made barbs a non-issue... but a very expensive way to do it. I'm going to really be behind, folks. Lucky if I can pull out a win at all.

 

[Mitchum]

I settled in place and started researching Fishing, followed by Mining, BW, Pottery, Mysticism, Meditation, PH, IW, Metal Casting (from Oracle in 1180 BC) and then beelined toward Optics.

At 500 AD, I have 6 cities on the main island, Optics, Alphabet, Math and CoL. I just started researching Civil Service, which won't be completed for 36 turns (delayed due to my focus on Optics).

After completing Optics in 185 AD, I sent one caravel east and another west. By 500 AD, I had met 4 of the 6 AI.

I don't enjoy fighting via naval warfare due to the logistics involved, so future plans entail taking out the weakest nearby AI to expand my empire such that I have the most land and acess to the most resources. Then I'll settle into a Space Race...

Edit: I forgot to mention that I had a barb archer that I nicknamed "Rambo" on my island. I lost 3 battles vs. archers when my probabilities of winning were 69.1%, 86.5% and 83.4%. All of these losing battles were within the span of seven turns around 700 BC, so I had to scramble to keep from losing any cities. After this, I was able to fog bust the entire island and barbs were no longer an issue.

 

[Vynd]

At start I explored northwest with my Warrior and northeast with my Settler and immediately recognized that we were stranded in the land of pain. I returned to start and established Paris there, and began researching Mining and building a Worker. My Warrior continued to explore and I soon realized we were isolated. The choice was clear: cultural victory

To that end I decided that I would build the Oracle and establish Confucianism. This was duly carried out, with a slight detour to acquire Fishing and Bronze Working, and to build a Work Boat and Settler. Orleans was established just west of Paris, destined to be my seafood-powered GPP. In 1240 BC I completed the Oracle as planned.

What to do next? Pyramids were a possibility but I decided instead to build the Parthenon and then go after the Colossus for additional commerce. With no great need for Stone I would avoid Masonry and cultivate a Great Prophet to bulb Civil Service. I also concluded that with the land being so painful and barren, Orleans would have to double as a culture center. My planned third cultural city would go far to the north at the only halfway decent place for cottaging on the whole continent, with sheep, seafood, and copper.

I was relying on a handful of aggressive Warriors to defend me. I kept my margin thin, and paid for it when an Archer defeated two Warriors in succession and sacked Lyon, which I’d just established as a production center between the Horses and Stone.

I decided to ignore this setback and established Rheims far to the north in the aforementioned land of Sheep and Copper, in 145 BC. It prospered, and additional Warriors soon had the fogbusting under control.

Paris had completed the Pathenon in 175 BC. Moses came amongst my people and showed us the way to Civil Service not long after. A little additional research secured the tech for me in 5 AD. There were only two religions left to establish at this point. I had to have at least one more, so Philosophy was my next target. It would take me 28 turns. (With only three cities I had the mixed blessing of low upkeep but not that much commerce.) Taoism was established in Orleans.

In the meantime, Paris attempted to cultivate a Great Scientist but generated an Artist instead, which was certainly fine. He was settled in Rheims. All three cities got their basic infrastructure in order and began building culture buildings. Rheims was tasked with construction of the Colossus. I didn’t want Paris to accumulate so many wonders that Orleans would have trouble competing once I finally devoted it to Artist specialists. The Colossus was completed in 500 AD.

 

[damnrunner]

immediately recognized that we were stranded in the land of pain.

Well spoken. Sounds like you made a very god start though.

 

[Htadus]

Settled on the spot and Started a worker. The warrior was lion food within 20 turns. Second one discovers the that we were on a some sort of custom continent. Built 7 warriors to fogbust. I recall someone saying that if no one knows Archery/BW on a continent then there will be no Barbarian units of the kind. So I skipped both Archary and BW and headed to CS sling. After building a Library went for the Oracle. I did a whole lot of MM-ing to get it build on the same turn as Confusionism - 1090BC.

Built a settler and founded the second city NE of stone to go after Mids. The first worker had already roaded to the city. Learned BW to chop a few trees to get it. Got it - 550BC. Built two more Cities after that; one for GP farm to west and the other with gold and 2 seafood. Built the Colossus in 80AD.

Went for HG and missed it by one or two turns in 335 AD. I should have built HG first but I thought AI ignor this wonder. And that would have been the better choice in my view. Oh well next time. First GE rushed the GLib in GP farm in 230AD.

Completed Machinery in 455AD and was heading toward Optics. So IW was next. The second GP was a GS but was late by 3 turns and someone else founded Tao - Philo. But I chose to bulb Philo and switch to Pacifism.

Plan is to head to Liberalism to get MT for calvary to accompany Musketeers for world domination or conquest. May the Force be with us all.

BTW did this game feel like it was on turtle speed or what? I thought I was going nuts.

 

[Erkon]

... I recall someone saying that if no one knows Archery/BW on a continent then there will be no Barbarian units of the kind...

If I remember correct, the barbs progress through the tech tree depending on the progress of all AIs. The more AIs that have a tech, the faster progress by the barbs. You can delay the appearance of axes marginally on Emperor and above since BW is quite popular by the AIs. It is not related to a continent. However, the number of barbs that spawn is related to the number of non-visible tiles on a continent, as is the number of barb cities. One trick is to make sure a barb city is spawned, and then increase defogging. That will ensure that the available barb units will be located in the city instead of spawning spontaneously outside the city. Again, if I remember correct

 

[Htadus]

If I remember correct, the barbs progress through the tech tree depending on the progress of all AIs. The more AIs that have a tech, the faster progress by the barbs. You can delay the appearance of axes marginally on Emperor and above since BW is quite popular by the AIs. It is not related to a continent. However, the number of barbs that spawn is related to the number of non-visible tiles on a continent, as is the number of barb cities. One trick is to make sure a barb city is spawned, and then increase defogging. That will ensure that the available barb units will be located in the city instead of spawning spontaneously outside the city. Again, if I remember correct

OK I buy that. At any given time I had no more than 3 dark tiles since the guys by the copper and sheep were roving back and forth to cover unlit tiles. BTW...I am glad my assumption did not comeback to bite me. Thanks for the info Erkon.

 

[toller pretzl]

Not relevant to this game, but I have found that the barb unit that is easiest to delay, is the galley. I have been in a few cultural games where I killed all other civs on the continent and then didn't research sailing. Eventually the first barb galley would show up, but only around 1400.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

There was food - just all seafood. Capital had 2 sea resources. City due W had 3 seafood. City halfway up the E coast had 2 seafood. City in the far NE had 1 seafood and sheep. Island with silver had 2 seafood.

That is really not too bad. I am very curious if anyone built the pyramids and started running representation and caste system? With lighthouses and a few farms you could easily have 3 or 4 scientists in each of these cities. I am pretty sure that is a lot more science than I was producing with marginal cottages. Also getting Great Scientist early on would have been far more useful than the Great prophets my oracle was producing.

My biggest limiting factor was the dearth of happiness resources. I made good use of monarchy but that was a tech detour from astro which also could have been avoided if I had focused on the Pyramids.

Sorry, never got round to replying to this. Yes, oddly, I did. After my worker discovered the seafood to the west, I moved the settler east to make way for a GP farm city west. After discovering what the land was like, I became very glad that I hadn't gone off moving the settler in search of a better capital, though for some reason that escapes me, around this time Erkon dropped out of my best-friends list...

Anyway, I figured that on a temperate map it was very unlikely that the AIs would be as unlucky as us with choice of land, and therefore my only chance of victory was to get a GP farm and lightbulb my way to get to steel as quickly as possible in the hope that if I could get cannons before all the AI had them, I'd stand a chance of picking off an AI or two. Normally I'm not a great fan of the pyramids but with the lack of happy resources I decided representation was a must, so I settled city 2 south of the stone, built the pyramids of the capital, and then used the great engineer to build the great library in the GP farm (think that was around 250AD). Looks like that was a tactic a few people picked.

Other noteworthy strategies...

1. In a flash of absolute cunning I never sent a boat to the island to the NW, on the basis that it looked like a useless lump of rock, and if it lead to any AI, I'd have known because the AI would've come to me. Hence at 500AD I knew nothing about the silver, which would've been very useful. (Luckily I'd played a lot past 500AD before Erkon posted this spoiler, so I haven't picked up anything spoilerish )
2. Conscious of the lack of good terrain, I planned out 7 cities on the island to take advantage of every single cottageable tile (which is why city 2 went south of the stone, even though pre-civil-service it had no food there and was condemned to be one of the slowest-growing cities I've ever built in 4 years of civ playing)
3. I also built enough warriors to fogbust the entire island very early on, in order to save me having to build any other military.

So at 500AD I was basically preparing my GP farm and hoping my grand plan would work. But not overly optimistic.

 

[lymond]

I don't know about yall but this island is pretty crappy. Only one or two decent city sites and way too much desert. I doubt my game will end well but I'll get it my best.