Civ4 Realism Mod (Extended Gameplay and tweaks)

[phoulishwan]

I think this mod rocks, and I see some familiar DYP names dotting this project as colaborators, is this going to be the Civ4 DYP equivalent?

Although I've played a couple games (granted on a tightly packed world map) and I have one major concern. Ancient Era warfare for a player who techs for war is almost too easy. By 1600BC I can own 8 out of 10 civs, simply because I'll tech for Chariots > Bronze Working (for chops) > Archers > Horse Archers. With the tech pace slowed down so dramatically, If I have horses the AI simply do not put up a fight, yes they have 3 defenders but they're all warriors. The only ones that seem to get Archers up are Aggresive ( presumably Aggresive naturally prefers warfare tech paths) or Financial (presumably because they have the additional commerce to speed up their tech rate) Civs seem to be able to get Archers up soon enough to prevent being over run by my single minded Ancient Age steamrolling.

Is there any way to make Civs prioritize at the very least Archers? I know it doesn't make much sense but maybe add a Religion founded by Archery? It wouldn't be contrary to history to have warfare spawn gods and religious figures. This could make AI's go more aggressively for Archery to help them preserve their own Hides...of course it also benefits Warmongers as it gives them a religion in their tech path but at least it's in the defensive line and not the offensive Bronze > Iron path. I'm not a Warmonger but I always play aggresively during the Ancient Era, I like my free workers

 

[slaxton]

MODERATOR REQUEST

At first, the comments in this thread WERE actually pointed at the actual mod. Now they just appear to be "hey I thought of this random idea!".

Could a moderator please seperate the wheat from the chaff? Thank you

while i agree the thread is getting rather crowded, and there are several posts that are completely off topic that should be removed, but although i cant speak for everyone else, any of the ideas i have offered have been because i do not have the abilities to currently program a mod (im to lazy to learn), but i do have (imho) alot of good ideas for a mod. and since Jaynus has done much what i would have done so far, i feel my ideas would mesh well with his.

speaking of good ideas, i like the idea about including salt as a food resource. another big one would be coffee (its one of the most influential non-strategic resources in our history, much like salt. its extremely surprising that they would include bananas in the game, but not salt or coffee).

 

[JakeCourtney]

MODERATOR REQUEST

It is becoming increasingly difficult to monitor the development of this mod due to the sheer volume of comments. Because this was the first major mod, the lion's share of the comments from random people about new ideas for implementation is going on here and not in some general place.

I want to be able to quickly tell when Jaynus is updating the mod AND I want to be able to read through people's ideas for mod implementation; however I think they deserve seperate threads. There are more mod designers than just Jaynus and random ideas for mods should not be posted in his development threads. At first, the comments in this thread WERE actually pointed at the actual mod. Now they just appear to be "hey I thought of this random idea!".

Could a moderator please seperate the wheat from the chaff? Thank you

That is what the first post on this forum is for! Leave the comments in this forum!

 

[Ryoken]

There is a tendency of people to just dump random ideas into threads. That is because they dont know how a message forum is supposed to work.

There are sub-forums to group thread topics; we are in the Completed Modpacks forum (which is for functioning work, not random ideas). In a functioning work thread (like this one), you comment on the product itself and on possible improvements. However, the improvements must be specific to the mod. You dont go "I would like a mod with Alien Invaders" in the Medieval Mod thread.

Yet here in this thread we have a lot of random comments not really related to the mod. You wanna have a discussion about GDP relating to Civ4 measurements of wealth/power; start a new thread. You want to talk about instability of the game, take it to the bugs/technical discussion forums. You want to talk about some random idea you had about major alterations to the game mechanics, start a new thread to discuss it.

The forum/subforum/thread structure is only good when people follow the structure. If everyone just starts pumping random posts into any thread they come across, the forum ceases to function properly.

That is all I am saying. This thread appears to be the dumping ground for every idea popping into certain people's skulls. This is a mod thread. It should be focused tightly on the subject of the mod. Not some random passerby's kooky ideas from the blue.


I like this mod very much. I dont wanna have to sift through everyones random ideas to keep track of the updates on it.

 

[Agraza]

It's called the realism mod. That is such a general title that so much falls into it. Is it realistic that bananas are given more importance than apples, that you can't transplant useful crops, that players can't interact with mountains in the slightest? So, a lot of people post their suggestions here, appropriately, to the realism mod that interests them.

Moving along...can our first settler ignore terrain movement penalties? I do second guess the computer at times, and often a forest or jungle prevents me from moving in my direction of choice. I don't think it's unbalanced that we be allowed to forego that extra turn to get the nearby spot we like.

 

[mayonaise]

ryoken, if you want updates check the first post. the only people who dont know how to use forums are the people who try to restrict others in them.

that said, is there a page that just lists actual completed mods as downloadable files? i think this would be the easiest way to keep track of whats out. if not, perhaps a locked forum where only moderators can post where these are listed.

 

[slaxton]

You dont go "I would like a mod with Alien Invaders" in the Medieval Mod thread.

Yet here in this thread we have a lot of random comments not really related to the mod. You wanna have a discussion about GDP relating to Civ4 measurements of wealth/power; start a new thread. You want to talk about instability of the game, take it to the bugs/technical discussion forums. You want to talk about some random idea you had about major alterations to the game mechanics, start a new thread to discuss it.

The forum/subforum/thread structure is only good when people follow the structure. If everyone just starts pumping random posts into any thread they come across, the forum ceases to function properly.

That is all I am saying. This thread appears to be the dumping ground for every idea popping into certain people's skulls. This is a mod thread. It should be focused tightly on the subject of the mod. Not some random passerby's kooky ideas from the blue.


I like this mod very much. I dont wanna have to sift through everyones random ideas to keep track of the updates on it.

as others have pointed out, updates are reported in the first post. also, you say you dont want random discussions about how the game calculates this or that... well what if the so called random ideas apply? what if the person putting them out there doesnt want to make a mod of their own, but thinks that their idea fits very well with the theme of this mod? people arent looking to just talk about their ideas, they're looking to talk about their ideas and be heard, and to help Jaynus achieve the goal he set out for when he entitled the mod REALISM.

 

[Ryoken]

Final update information would be in the front of the thread, yes. However, I also want to know if there is any interesting ideas Jaynus is throwing out in the actual thread.

 

[Ackillez]

Although I've played a couple games (granted on a tightly packed world map) and I have one major concern. Ancient Era warfare for a player who techs for war is almost too easy. By 1600BC I can own 8 out of 10 civs, simply because I'll tech for Chariots > Bronze Working (for chops) > Archers > Horse Archers. With the tech pace slowed down so dramatically, If I have horses the AI simply do not put up a fight, yes they have 3 defenders but they're all warriors. The only ones that seem to get Archers up are Aggresive ( presumably Aggresive naturally prefers warfare tech paths) or Financial (presumably because they have the additional commerce to speed up their tech rate) Civs seem to be able to get Archers up soon enough to prevent being over run by my single minded Ancient Age steamrolling.

Is there any way to make Civs prioritize at the very least Archers? I know it doesn't make much sense but maybe add a Religion founded by Archery? It wouldn't be contrary to history to have warfare spawn gods and religious figures. This could make AI's go more aggressively for Archery to help them preserve their own Hides...of course it also benefits Warmongers as it gives them a religion in their tech path but at least it's in the defensive line and not the offensive Bronze > Iron path. I'm not a Warmonger but I always play aggresively during the Ancient Era, I like my free workers

Sounds like you're playing on noble difficulty or lower.

On the higher difficulty levels, the AI gets a handicap in terms of research and production. While the player will often eventually be able to offset this later in the game by building up a solid infrastructure in his/her cities, in the early years, when everyone is limited to a few cities without specialists, libraries or monasteries, the AI will almost always be able to tech to archers before you get chariots. And they'll have bronze working pretty soon, enabling spearmen which will counter all cavalry up to and including war elephants (at least if you can get them the anti-cav promotion, which is the most useful for them anyways).

 

[phoulishwan]

Sounds like you're playing on noble difficulty or lower.

On the higher difficulty levels, the AI gets a handicap in terms of research and production. While the player will often eventually be able to offset this later in the game by building up a solid infrastructure in his/her cities, in the early years, when everyone is limited to a few cities without specialists, libraries or monasteries, the AI will almost always be able to tech to archers before you get chariots. And they'll have bronze working pretty soon, enabling spearmen which will counter all cavalry up to and including war elephants (at least if you can get them the anti-cav promotion, which is the most useful for them anyways).

Granted I'm not going any higher than Prince, but I mostly play Prince...and on an even playing field or only slightly boosted AI they can't seem to keep pace with an aggresive player unless the AI themselves are aggresive too.

 

[korfez]

I copied this from another forum where I have written this:

In the game, I am really dissappointed how religion works. Religion is part of culture and the way how it spreads is just not realistic.

Imagine 2 civilizations both with two cities. Imagine that CIV 1 is highly developed and has a great cultural value, both cities are muslim. The other (neighbouring) civilization hasn't developed well, both cities have buddhism as their religion. Normally when you higher the culture rate, Islam should spread to the two neigbouring cities. What i want to say is that when a city adopts a religion it doesn' t adopt another one automatically, you have to send a missionary. In my opinion it should spread automatically when CIV 2 suffers from the high culture rate of CIV 1.

When I play civ 4 I get frustrated when I see that my cities adopt all kinds of different religions. That' s bull****. When my religion is set, it shouldn' t be so that 90% of the new cities adopt a different religion. Because when they adopt that religion, then no way I can wipe that religion out of my city and I have to send a missionary to that city.


Another thing that bothers me is the Open borders agreement. Because in the game open borders means open trade, that s good but also open borders for military units. And thats not realistic and frustrating for me!!! There should be two different agreements on the diplomacy screen. One which gives you trade rights and one which gives your units permission to march on enemy territory, look that's realistic. Because when I open borders the first thing the AI does is sending a settler to somewhere where I really don' t want to see him. Sometimes they make cities just in the middle of my empire! So I am really getting annoyed of the open borders agreement = trade AND MILITARY ALLOWED TO PASS agreement.

TRADE RIGHTS is the magic word.

 

[korfez]

What also can be added is the following: spies could have more options in civ4. Like in civilization 2, using them stealing technology and attempting a revolt.

 

[JakeCourtney]

Spies certainly need more abilities.

 

[slaxton]

i agree, as i suggested earlier, if youre making more than one type of nuclear bomb, one of the types should be "suitcase nuke" that can only be moved into place by a spy

oh, and incase youre interested, im going to do the graphics for a coffee resource, tobacco, probably salt and marijuana. oh, and i feel stupid for having never looked into what i was told years ago, about chocolate and cocaine coming from the same plant... lol, so im gonna probably gonna do cacao plants aswell (for chocolate).

 

[hybrid5]

I have installed the Realism Mod in my \My Documents\My Games\...\Mods folder, following the instructions. I edited the Civ4.ini file to automatically load Realism at start up. I verified that "Realism" is in the upper right corner of the screen at start up. I am able to start and play a custom game.

When I try to load a saved game, I get the message "Mods\C:\Documents and Settings\{ME}\My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization4\Mods\Realism" needs to be loaded, click yes to restart. When I click yes, it can not find the file. This is obvious, if the path I listed above is correct. I tried to clear my assets folder, with no success. In the instruction page, there was some mention to clearing the catch folder. Where is this folder? Is there something that I am doing wrong?

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Karl

hay guys .

i am having this same problem as well . look throught the 16 pages for help .. i could not find anthing anyone had this issue .. ?


THanks

 

[CrazyAce]

Just load the mod without editing the *.ini file.

 

[ACEofHeart]

Just wanted to post a "thank you" for the Mod..
Nicely done and IMHO makes the game more enjoyable to play.. All eras have more structure...

 

[oper]

oh, and i feel stupid for having never looked into what i was told years ago, about chocolate and cocaine coming from the same plant... lol, so im gonna probably gonna do cacao plants aswell (for chocolate).

are you claiming that chocolate and cocaine derive from the same plant?

you must be high.

chocolate is made from the paste producede by the seeds of the Cacao tree "Theobroma cacao"

cocaine is obtained from the leaves of the coca plant "Erythroxylum coca"

while they both grow naturally in the Andes, one is a tree, the other a plant.

 

[Tactilus]

I've been playing this mod for a few days and I enjoy it alot better than the original especially when it comes to Cannons and timing. Thanks to all those who created and implimented this mod.

Heres a few things I enjoyed.

1. The Gunsmith, I liked having to build a gunsmith in order to build Gunpowder units.
2. Timeline was longer and turns seemed to go well with a conquest. You couldn't research super fast and have units obsoleted, you could build your UU (like Recoats) have them shipped over seas to a new continent and take over an empire before one of them had Infantry.
3. Getting cannons earlier with other gunpowder units.

Here are some problems I encountered.

1. In 1075 AD I was Researching Corporation. I think the later techs need about a 50% more to research time around Gunpowder and all techs past it. This should slow it down and keep it along the real timeline.

2. Conquistadors (Spanish Knights) are able to defend inside their cities. Imagine my horror when I found out my promoted Redcoats had the same attack power against the Conquistadors on defense. I had used 3 Cannons to reduce the city defense to 6% from 60%. So it might be the wall+25% for being fortified. An 18+ attack power Conquistador is a bit much though imo.

Also note, my Redcoats had a totally much easier time once the Conquistadors where out of the way and they could attack Riflemen with promotions +25% against Gunpowder much much more easier.

I figure either a Promotion against Cavalry needs to be implimented earlier for Riflemen, OR Conquistadors be modified for only 1/2 defensive bonus or even no defensive bonus but give them say attack power of 12 instead of 10.

3. Here is another problem I found that can be fixed in the game. The Gunsmith, once you complete one. You are allowed to make the Gunpowder units. But, once you build the Gunsmith in one city, you can build them in all cities. I ended up building 3-4 extra not realizing that I only needed one gunsmith. I think it should be each city needs a gunsmith in order to produce the Gunpowder unit, OR just one as a National Wonder.

4. Another concern is when I went to conquer the Continent with 4 enemies on it, I had noticed that Egypt, Persia and Spanish had huge culture in all of their cities. Everytime I captured a city it was surrounded by another culture as If I didn't take that city and the surrounding lands. I had about 5 revolts from cities recently taken over.

Also if I take over a City and it has a few towns left, I noticed Isabella would pillage her own towns. Strange, is there a way we can mod that out?

5. I didn't like the Ironclad it couldn't protect my coastline at all against Isabella's one frigate going around demolishing around 10 fishing boats. I ended up having to take my frigates escorting my galleons to the new continent, and come and chase it down while I built new frigates/ironclads in my cities. One Ironclad even lost to this one Frigate. 12 vs 8 I believe. I think the Ironclads are too slow for movement to even be used as coastline defense. The weren't any better than a Frigate and can't move into ocean squares. The Ironclad could use alittle boost.

6. The Robotics Tech looks screwed up in my Science Advisor screen.

7. Cathedral symbol under Music Tech - Whats this for?

Here are a number of things tha I think can be added to make the Realism mod better.

1. Bunkers - they can come before Flight tech, yet if Flight isn't existing how does one know how to build a bunker against it? This should come with Flight or later techs.
2. Bomb Shelter- Again I don't believe they had bunkers created when they didn't even have Nuclear bombs on the drawing boards. This should be moved to Fission or later.
3. Market gives +25% gold but Supermarket doesn't give anything at all. I would either add a +50% to Supermarket or take away the +25% for market and give it to Supermarket.
4. Goody Huts to reveal more map.
5. Cavalry to upgrade to Infantry
6. I propose a new tech called Hydro Electricity.
A. Plastics Hydro Plant and the Three Gorges moved to Hydro Electricity Tech.
B. The Electricity tech moved to replace Physics Tech. All Physics benefits like the Great Scientist moved to Fission.
C. The Hydro Electricity moved to the old Electricity spot. It will require Electricity
D. Nothing will require Hydro Electricity, it will be an optional tech.
7. Or Plastics be renamed to Hydro Electricity
8. Obsolete Furs and Whales moved to Ecology Tech, giving them longer life span.
9. Oil moved to Combustion
10. I think there are way to many Civics bunched tightly together Between Nationalism and Democracy and Liberalism. There is about 6 Civics within a few turns of each other. -Major Revamp needs to take place here.
A. I propose a new tech called Republic to take the place of Drama, It will basically be Identical to Constitution Tech but will come much sooner on the tech tree, after writing and/or literature. The Drama benefits will be moved to Music Tech and renamed to The Arts.
- This will allow Representation ala Senators in Rome at a much earlier stage in the game.
B. Constitution should give Freedom of Religion.
C. Liberalism should be renamed to Civil Rights and given Emancipation.
D. Democracy should have Universal Suffrage and Statue of Liberty.
F. Civil Rights tech should require Constitution.
G. Freedom of Speech moved to Printing Press.
-That should space the Civics out some.
11. Optics has machinery removed as requirement so it comes right after Compass.
12. Pikemen were created to counter Knights and Heavy Cavalry charges, but they must have been in existence first before finding a way to counter them. Pikemen must be one tech later than Knights.
A. Move Guilds Technology in between Civil Service and Feudalism (In the realism mod the Knights are moved to Civil Service, move them back to Guilds for this change.)
-This will allow one tech where Knights while reign until the Civil Service is learned and a counter Unit is trained.
13. Jungles seem to be a hard thing to impliment while maintaining game balance.
A. Computer and Players stuck in thick Jungles can soon find themselves behind. In order to simulate this better I have a few Ideas.
B. Wild animals can spring up in Jungles randomly. This should occur throughout all timelines until jungle is cut down. These Animals will be dependant upon the timeline and can attack inside city and culture boarders. They will be stronger than the original animals.
C. Allow cutting of Jungles to start when you can Chop Forest aswell.
D. Allow disease to be caught by Workers in Jungles and be spread like a Plague throughout cities if one doesn't realize the Worker has caught the plague.
E. Workers randomly lose health in the unhealthy conditions. One would have to watch over their workers cutting down jungles very carefully. .2 damage about 10% of the time working in jungles maybe.
F. Jungles give hammers similar to Forest.
G. Take alittle longer than forests to chop down.
14. Be able to Farm desert with Biology
15. Be able to place Cottage in the desert/tundra after Biology

 

[slaxton]

are you claiming that chocolate and cocaine derive from the same plant?

you must be high.

chocolate is made from the paste producede by the seeds of the Cacao tree "Theobroma cacao"

cocaine is obtained from the leaves of the coca plant "Erythroxylum coca"

while they both grow naturally in the Andes, one is a tree, the other a plant.

um... actually i was correcting a previous statement i had made. i had been told some time ago that they came from the same plant, and until before i posted that message i hadnt done any research. i thought it was pretty clear i was calling myself stupid for never having checked into that sooner.