Civ5, 6 and BE in the future

[stormtrooper412]

Yes this is the key point, whatever was broken in base game CivBE didn't even get close to being fixed in Rising Tide. It's like they ignored it on purpose

 

[Ryika]

It's like they ignored it on purpose

Maybe they have, though I don't think they did so in a nefarious way.

I find it way more likely that they just didn't have the team size and, maybe more importantly, the experience, to really make it a great, "cohesive" experience, so they decided to fix things that are within the scope of what they can do.

 

[stormtrooper412]

that definitely makes sense and is consistent with how I feel about the game.

But yeah it's true, they obviously didn't have a big enough team to be able to make things work better. It's too bad, I mean it's not a bad game, but I had to wait until it dropped to 15 bucks or sth otherwise I would never buy it

 

[WiseGreen]

I think it's also a matter of design choices that had the potential to be awesome, but ended up being very limited by other stuff. Some of these might be solved by having more people/resources to work with, but I think some might not (the AI being clueless in how to deal with the tech web properly, for instance; I think the AI tech simply isn't there yet, and it might get a while to get there). I see BE as not a great game, but a mix of an OK, enjoyable game and a lot of great ideas that were perhaps way too ambitious for the game's own good. But I also think RT was a reasonable leap in quality from the base game, and that it added a lot of replayability on it.

 

[Bandobras Took]

Civ5 was mostly fixed after the first expansion. After neglecting it at release I was able to go back to it at that time (and ever since).

Rising Tide however didn't really change the base game and it also didn't get that much through patchs so if someone was disapointed by the original game things probably haven't changed much.

One of the reasons I'm unenthusiastic about Civ 6 is that I didn't feel BE got the post-release attention it needed.

 

[Joch]

I play both Civ5 and CivBE. I tend to alternate between the two. I can't honestly say one is better or more complete than the other. They both have a very strong common heritage, the only real distinction is the setting.

 

[Zenstrive]

There is one reason that might be lure me back to CiV and Civ:BE: the turn time on Civ VI is atrocious on my laptop. Do one or two things in less than a minute, then waiting for my turn to do things again for 3 minutes is just...immersion breaking

 

[Robo-Star]

Just an idle thought, despite still thinking Civ5 is a better game than BE, I don't imagine myself coming back to the former once I get my hands on Civ6. Oddly enough, I think I might/will still play BE by then; despite its various flaws, I think Rising Tide managed to give the game its own, distinct flavor and identity, and the game is good enough for me to give it a try after Civ5 becomes another title in my Steam library I'll probably never play again. Does anyone else feel like it?

I wouldn't go back from Civ4, but I still play SMAC. I think the latter is better than Civ2/3, though.

 

[Kolbeg]

I really want to enjoy BE, I want it to satisfy some of the nostalgia I have for SMAC.
I´m even more enthusiastic about it than the regular historic Civ franchise, I think I´ve given up on trying to like it again, perhaps its just age or the direction the franchise has gone I don´t really know.

The problem I have with BE (and Firaxis games in general) is that it is impossible to understand their motives, direction and ambitions. Its just a black hole that every now and then spits out these (historically acclaimed) games, and then we the customers have no real idea of where they are going with things. They seem to have zero interaction with their community of players, they just keep you hanging, and its so frustrating.

Where is BE going next, what would they like to do, are they done with it, anything they would like to fix or just...

 

[Ryika]

are they done with it,

Yep. Dead game.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Honestly, I would love a sequel or remake of Beyond Earth. The premise has so much potential and the game did introduce some really cool ideas like affinities, quests and the tech wheel. In the right hands a BE sequel or remake could be amazing!!!

 

[Ryika]

Most certainly, especially given how big the interest was when the game was announced.

I'm not sure whether it's (only) a matter of "the right hands" though, I assume it's probably more a question of the budget. BE was more or less a quick "Okay, we have an engine, we have some time to fill until Civ VI, so let's put some people on it."-project, that, judging by some of the comments of the game files, might have originally been planned to be another expansion for Civ V.

Give it the budget of Civ VI plus maybe some extra for proper AI (ffs), and you'll have an amazing success.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I'm not sure whether it's (only) a matter of "the right hands" though, I assume it's probably more a question of the budget. BE was more or less a quick "Okay, we have an engine, we have some time to fill until Civ VI, so let's put some people on it."-project, that, judging by some of the comments of the game files, might have originally been planned to be another expansion for Civ V.

Give it the budget of Civ VI plus maybe some extra for proper AI (ffs), and you'll have an amazing success.

I think it is all of the above. You need a good budget, a good team and a good lead designer. But I agree with you that BE probably suffered from being a "side project". One reason why we should not be too hard on the BE devs. They never had the time or resources necessary to make the kind of game that many civ fans were expecting. With the resources of a flagship game like civ, the game would have been even better!

 

[legalizefreedom]

I agree with the both of you here. I don't blame the leads. I like the vision and what came from it and I can only imagine their pain when the resources were not provided or cut before they could finish.

This game doesn't need much. The remaining (air) units, enhancements to the orbital layer and a couple of things to fill in the late game. Then top it off with a balance pass. Unfortunately, it appears we have all been short changed.

 

[DefiantMars]

The only thing I'm really upset with the Devs about is for the unfinished state that the Hybrids were left in. They said the Hybrids were going to be their own solutions and not 50/50 splits of the Core Affinities, but that's exactly what they are.

Unfortunately I think it ultimately boils down to the points you've already covered.

For me, its safe to say that Beyond Earth is my favorite concept for a science fiction setting in a long time. I will look at things now and attribute them to the affinities. The fact that can't tear myself away from the concepts means that they've done at least something right. The ideas themselves are not new and stem from longstanding Sci-Fi tradition and archetypes, but the way they've been framed is great.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

The only thing I'm really upset with the Devs about is for the unfinished state that the Hybrids were left in. They said the Hybrids were going to be their own solutions and not 50/50 splits of the Core Affinities, but that's exactly what they are.

Overall, I really like Rising Tide a lot. It has a lot of good features.But I would agree that the hybrid affinities were totally botched. Hybrid affinities are not distinct but rather just a melting pot of a little bit of each affinity. The way the hybrids were implemented, I think it would have been better not to have them at all, but rather focus on making the core affinities more different with more unique abilities, unique units, unique buildings, unique art and unique wonders, etc...

 

[Zenstrive]

I think it's high time Beyond Earth got another expansion or sequel. Need more turn based X4 games.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I think it's high time Beyond Earth got another expansion or sequel. Need more turn based X4 games.

I agree. I need me some great scifi civ! I sent a tweet to Firaxis to let them know!

 

[Joch]

so, after playing multiple games of Civ6, including Rise and Fall, I am replaying a game of CivBE.

I really think this game was not given the chance it deserved. Yes, it has issues, but is a welcome break from Civ 5/6.

 

[Barathor]

I'm still waiting and hoping for another BE game too (or whatever they want to call the new one).

I've been playing Civ since the second one, and I'm a little ashamed to admit it for some reason, but I haven't even purchased the Rise and Fall expansion yet or have been playing Civ 6. It's just gotten stale to me -- I've tasted some Firaxis 4X SciFi and I'm craving more of it. I just loved the story of desperately seeking out and colonizing a planet and the evolution of those civilizations into some form of the three amazing affinities they've come up with.

History is cool too, but it gets old (lol). This is just my own opinion, but Civ 6 has really gotten bloated; it kinda lost that simple, iconic charm -- now, it tries to include everything (again, my own opinion and from my own Western perspective). The bigger is better, more is more approach. I guess it's difficult to avoid when it's the sixth version of the game.

Design-wise, history shackles you down and you have to include and do things in certain ways with eras, units, techs, leader personalities... a creative process of its own as you manipulate those constants to the design of your game. But, with SciFi, it's totally open and you can do almost anything you want, especially for the later half of the game. You don't need to have 40+ leaders to represent all these different parts of the world with trite abilities that give +x to this district instead of this district; you can make a good handful of your own leaders, filled with "unique" personalities and many different abilities that alter your playstyle and strategies. Quality over quantity. You can even create somewhat villainous leaders without disrespecting any cultures/countries.

It would be great for Firaxis to have another solid franchise to go along with XCOM and Civ, and to have 4X leapfrog releases with Civ. I hope they're still working at it and are successful.